Would the Unwavering Mark on creatures let them know they're marked so they can make choices about who to attack based on that? Or would they just attack whomever the DM wants and not understand that they're marked? I don't think this is addressed anywhere so I was just wondering what peoples thoughts are on this.
Also, does Hold the Line give you unlimited opportunity attacks if targets move 5 feet or more while in your range? It never says you need to use your reaction for these opportunity attacks so it sounds like you could hit as many creatures that move as you want. Also, can you hit the same creature more than once if it moves 10 feet while in your range? The five feet or more makes it sound like you can only do this once per enemy movement but it's at least a little ambiguous.
Vigilant Defender!? This seems to say that you can do an opportunity attack once on EVERY creatures turn! It never says this opportunity attack has to be on the enemy whose turn it is. Could you just attack the same target on every turn including your allies? This seems just obsurdly good. If you're in a party of 4 and attacking 4 enemies, that'd be 7 opportunity attacks per turn! That plus your normal attacks on your turn, is 11 attacks per round! That is bananas. With 20 strength and a Great sword, you're literally dealing 22d6 + 55 damage for an average of 132 damage per round and that's not even counting action surge or a magic weapon. Am I reading that correctly? "You respond to danger with extraordinary vigilance. In combat, you get a special reaction that you can take once on every creature's turn, except your own. You can use this special reaction only to make an opportunity attack, and you can't use it on the same turn that you take your normal reaction." XtGTE Every creature's turn except your own. It could mean that these opportunity attacks are only available under normal circumstances such as them moving out of your range (in which case this ability is actually pretty awful). It never says that though. Other classes or feats enable opportunity attacks which are actually just normal attacks using your reaction and not in your turn. Am I way off on this one?
I think Unwavering mark still works fine even if we assume that they know they are marked.
Opportunity attacks are always a reaction unless specified otherwise.
Vigilant defender still has to follow the rules for making opportunity attacks (meaning the target has to willingly move). If you think that makes this feature is bad now, consider combining it with sentinel.
Would the Unwavering Mark on creatures let them know they're marked so they can make choices about who to attack based on that? Or would they just attack whomever the DM wants and not understand that they're marked? I don't think this is addressed anywhere so I was just wondering what peoples thoughts are on this.
Also, does Hold the Line give you unlimited opportunity attacks if targets move 5 feet or more while in your range? It never says you need to use your reaction for these opportunity attacks so it sounds like you could hit as many creatures that move as you want. Also, can you hit the same creature more than once if it moves 10 feet while in your range? The five feet or more makes it sound like you can only do this once per enemy movement but it's at least a little ambiguous.
Vigilant Defender!? This seems to say that you can do an opportunity attack once on EVERY creatures turn! It never says this opportunity attack has to be on the enemy whose turn it is. Could you just attack the same target on every turn including your allies? This seems just obsurdly good. If you're in a party of 4 and attacking 4 enemies, that'd be 7 opportunity attacks per turn! That plus your normal attacks on your turn, is 11 attacks per round! That is bananas. With 20 strength and a Great sword, you're literally dealing 22d6 + 55 damage for an average of 132 damage per round and that's not even counting action surge or a magic weapon. Am I reading that correctly? "You respond to danger with extraordinary vigilance. In combat, you get a special reaction that you can take once on every creature's turn, except your own. You can use this special reaction only to make an opportunity attack, and you can't use it on the same turn that you take your normal reaction." XtGTE Every creature's turn except your own. It could mean that these opportunity attacks are only available under normal circumstances such as them moving out of your range (in which case this ability is actually pretty awful). It never says that though. Other classes or feats enable opportunity attacks which are actually just normal attacks using your reaction and not in your turn. Am I way off on this one?
Unwavering Mark - Ultimately, it's up to the DM. Whether the enemy knows they're marked, the DM knows. It's up to them to a) decide if the enemy knows they're marked, b) decide if the enemy even knows what "being marked" means to them, and c) whether that will affect who the enemy chooses to target. Honestly, with my L10 Cavalier it's not that big an issue. He's such a beast that the enemies who come at him are desperate to try and wear him down :)
Hold The Line - This ability only changes the conditions for WHEN you can make the Opportunity Attack, all the other rules such as using your Reaction still apply.
Vigilant Defender - Once again, this ability changes the conditions for when you make an Opportunity Attack, but the other rules still apply. You make the attack against the creature that triggered it. So let's say you're surrounded by enemies Inky, Blinky, Pinky, and Clyde(5pts for getting the reference). On Inky's turn he tries to step away, triggering an Opportunity Attack against Inky. You hit him, and his speed drops to 0 because of Hold The Line. Next, it's Blinky's turn. HE tries to step away, because he's realizing how much of a beast you are and is rethinking his life choices. He triggers an Opportunity Attack against Blinky. ONLY against Blinky. He does not, and cannot, trigger an Opportunity Attack against Inky, Pinky or Clyde.
Would the Unwavering Mark on creatures let them know they're marked so they can make choices about who to attack based on that? Or would they just attack whomever the DM wants and not understand that they're marked? I don't think this is addressed anywhere so I was just wondering what peoples thoughts are on this.
Also, does Hold the Line give you unlimited opportunity attacks if targets move 5 feet or more while in your range? It never says you need to use your reaction for these opportunity attacks so it sounds like you could hit as many creatures that move as you want. Also, can you hit the same creature more than once if it moves 10 feet while in your range? The five feet or more makes it sound like you can only do this once per enemy movement but it's at least a little ambiguous.
Vigilant Defender!? This seems to say that you can do an opportunity attack once on EVERY creatures turn! It never says this opportunity attack has to be on the enemy whose turn it is. Could you just attack the same target on every turn including your allies? This seems just obsurdly good. If you're in a party of 4 and attacking 4 enemies, that'd be 7 opportunity attacks per turn! That plus your normal attacks on your turn, is 11 attacks per round! That is bananas. With 20 strength and a Great sword, you're literally dealing 22d6 + 55 damage for an average of 132 damage per round and that's not even counting action surge or a magic weapon. Am I reading that correctly? "You respond to danger with extraordinary vigilance. In combat, you get a special reaction that you can take once on every creature's turn, except your own. You can use this special reaction only to make an opportunity attack, and you can't use it on the same turn that you take your normal reaction." XtGTE Every creature's turn except your own. It could mean that these opportunity attacks are only available under normal circumstances such as them moving out of your range (in which case this ability is actually pretty awful). It never says that though. Other classes or feats enable opportunity attacks which are actually just normal attacks using your reaction and not in your turn. Am I way off on this one?
Unwavering Mark - Ultimately, it's up to the DM. Whether the enemy knows they're marked, the DM knows. It's up to them to a) decide if the enemy knows they're marked, b) decide if the enemy even knows what "being marked" means to them, and c) whether that will affect who the enemy chooses to target. Honestly, with my L10 Cavalier it's not that big an issue. He's such a beast that the enemies who come at him are desperate to try and wear him down :)
Hold The Line - This ability only changes the conditions for WHEN you can make the Opportunity Attack, all the other rules such as using your Reaction still apply.
Vigilant Defender - Once again, this ability changes the conditions for when you make an Opportunity Attack, but the other rules still apply. You make the attack against the creature that triggered it. So let's say you're surrounded by enemies Inky, Blinky, Pinky, and Clyde(5pts for getting the reference). On Inky's turn he tries to step away, triggering an Opportunity Attack against Inky. You hit him, and his speed drops to 0 because of Hold The Line. Next, it's Blinky's turn. HE tries to step away, because he's realizing how much of a beast you are and is rethinking his life choices. He triggers an Opportunity Attack against Blinky. ONLY against Blinky. He does not, and cannot, trigger an Opportunity Attack against Inky, Pinky or Clyde.
How did you build your cavalier? Next time I need to be the front line type I'm definitely making one but haven't decided what my plan is. It seems like it's either pole arm or sword and board but maybe there is more I'm not thinking about. Maybe a feat that would actually be useful? It seems like cavaliers have a bunch of similar abilities to some of the better feats or wouldn't be able to use them.
Re: Unwavering Mark, it's naturally going to be contextual. Even if the DM reasons an intelligent enemy would recognize what's happening, it's very unlikely something like a black pudding would.
Re: Unwavering Mark, it's naturally going to be contextual. Even if the DM reasons an intelligent enemy would recognize what's happening, it's very unlikely something like a black pudding would.
You either get a bonus swipe at them, or you keep them focused on you, which as a tank you may want to be doing anyway. :)
How did you build your cavalier? Next time I need to be the front line type I'm definitely making one but haven't decided what my plan is. It seems like it's either pole arm or sword and board but maybe there is more I'm not thinking about. Maybe a feat that would actually be useful? It seems like cavaliers have a bunch of similar abilities to some of the better feats or wouldn't be able to use them.
Mine's a Goliath, and I went Sword(Axe in my case) & Shield with the Dueling fighting style. For a while he had a Greataxe he would wield sometime, but he's since been able to have the enchantment transferred to a Battleaxe. My DM for that game is pretty flexible about such things. Along our journeys we stumbled upon a set of magic Plate armor, meaning my AC is really good even without a shield, so I've been talking with my DM about possibly switching his fighting style. We've occasionally had periods of extended downtime, I brought up the idea of having him spend downtime to essentially retrain his fighting technique, so he'd lose Dueling and gain Two-Weapon Fighting, after which I'd take Dual Wielder at the next ASI/Feat opportunity. When it comes to stats, maxing both Strength and Constitution is big, since they each determine how many times a day you can use one of your Cavalier abilities. I've found that I use Warding Maneuver WAY more often than the bonus attack from Unwavering Mark, mostly because when the bad guys get in my face, they don't go after anyone else. I took the Skilled feat for RP reasons(my guy was trained as a blacksmith, I gave him proficiencies which would help him learn to craft magic items). Sentinel isn't a complete waste even after you get Hold The Line, but it'll be competing with your reaction a lot. I know my DM would love it if I took Mage Slayer, but I think I may focus on maxing my Str/Con first. I have a 19 Strength, and my DM is allowing the Expanded Racial Feats that were a bonus when you pre-ordered Xanathar's Guide on here, so I may take Moutain's Endurance to even my Str out. Plus it'll be a nice defensive boost, since I'm often surrounded by multiples of the same type of enemy.
I'm thinking of a cavalier that would go Fighter 5, Warlock 2, and then finish Fighter. Thoughts on the matter would be a race that can get strength, Constitution, and/or Charisma stat boosts. I'd use point buy to get those stats to 16/15 and anything that was leftover would go into Wisdom. The half-orc version I built was 14+2, 8, 15+1, 8, 10, 15. Sailor background gives skills of Intimidation, Athletics, and Perception. Insight and History were the fighter skills I picked with the intent of going Animal Handling at fighter 3. Picked a glaive, a shield, and the 2 handaxes to go with the chain mail. Defensive fighting style at 1 gives him 17 AC without shield and 19 with.
He'd start as a dual wielder (handaxes) who sometimes uses a shield from his training as a soldier. He might pull out the glaive on occasion but he's still getting the feel for it. At Fighter 3 Unwavering Mark comes on line giving another option for bonus action, so he starts using the glaive more. PAM at Fighter 4 gives him lots of options but a more consistent bonus action means he's full on glaive now. Fighter 5 for Extra Attack. Warlock 1 Brings the hex ability and the option to use charisma for attacks, Eldritch Blast, either mage hand or minor illusion and Shield on a short rest. Warlock 2 brings Repelling Blast and either fiendish vigor, or Grasp of Hadar. It's possible that Beast Speech or Lance of Lethargy could be the second invocation, but that would be dependent on how things are going with the party. Hex or Armor of Agathys for the other spell.
Sentinel or Charisma bump for Fighter 6, Fighter 8 likely the other, Fighter 12 brings Warcaster if it seems like it fits better than the Charisma bump or Fighter 14 otherwise with Fighter 16 finishing Charisma, giving a constitution boost, or whatever else seems helpful. Plus all of the Fighter things in between. He'd switch to spear or quarterstaff to take advantage of Hex Warrior and a shield, probably after warcaster came on line, partially because he doesn't like how unwieldy the glaive is, partially because he misses the option of the shield, and partially because he feels it fits better with his identity as a hexblade.
If he were a human variant, he'd go 15+1 (HAM), 8, 15+1, 8, 8, 15+1 instead. He'd abandon the glaive sooner, noting that he felt more effective with the shorter, lighter weapons and not getting caught up in the sheer savagery possible from glaive strikes like the orc. He'd also feel more at home with the shield and might forgo the glaive altogether for a longsword for more sword & board early. This preference would be because of a desire to simply not get hit being stronger than the desire to finish the fight sooner. He might go dualist instead of defensive fighting style.
I think Unwavering mark still works fine even if we assume that they know they are marked.
Opportunity attacks are always a reaction unless specified otherwise.
Vigilant defender still has to follow the rules for making opportunity attacks (meaning the target has to willingly move). If you think that makes this feature is bad now, consider combining it with sentinel.
I get the feeling that it's more than just opportunity attacks as far as Vigilant Defender goes. Otherwise what would even be the point in taking it. Enemies already trigger AoOs when they leave your reach so what exactly does this add? Does this mean you are normally limited to making 1 (one) attack of opportunity regardless of how many enemies leave your reach?
I think Unwavering mark still works fine even if we assume that they know they are marked.
Opportunity attacks are always a reaction unless specified otherwise.
Vigilant defender still has to follow the rules for making opportunity attacks (meaning the target has to willingly move). If you think that makes this feature is bad now, consider combining it with sentinel.
I get the feeling that it's more than just opportunity attacks as far as Vigilant Defender goes. Otherwise what would even be the point in taking it. Enemies already trigger AoOs when they leave your reach so what exactly does this add? Does this mean you are normally limited to making 1 (one) attack of opportunity regardless of how many enemies leave your reach?
You have one reaction to make an opportunity attack or otherwise spend per each of your turns. Vigilant Defender gives you a special reaction on each creatures turn to use on an OA. This means that you can have as many OAs as there are enemies instead of just one per round.
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Would the Unwavering Mark on creatures let them know they're marked so they can make choices about who to attack based on that? Or would they just attack whomever the DM wants and not understand that they're marked? I don't think this is addressed anywhere so I was just wondering what peoples thoughts are on this.
Also, does Hold the Line give you unlimited opportunity attacks if targets move 5 feet or more while in your range? It never says you need to use your reaction for these opportunity attacks so it sounds like you could hit as many creatures that move as you want. Also, can you hit the same creature more than once if it moves 10 feet while in your range? The five feet or more makes it sound like you can only do this once per enemy movement but it's at least a little ambiguous.
Vigilant Defender!? This seems to say that you can do an opportunity attack once on EVERY creatures turn! It never says this opportunity attack has to be on the enemy whose turn it is. Could you just attack the same target on every turn including your allies? This seems just obsurdly good. If you're in a party of 4 and attacking 4 enemies, that'd be 7 opportunity attacks per turn! That plus your normal attacks on your turn, is 11 attacks per round! That is bananas. With 20 strength and a Great sword, you're literally dealing 22d6 + 55 damage for an average of 132 damage per round and that's not even counting action surge or a magic weapon. Am I reading that correctly? "You respond to danger with extraordinary vigilance. In combat, you get a special reaction that you can take once on every creature's turn, except your own. You can use this special reaction only to make an opportunity attack, and you can't use it on the same turn that you take your normal reaction." XtGTE Every creature's turn except your own. It could mean that these opportunity attacks are only available under normal circumstances such as them moving out of your range (in which case this ability is actually pretty awful). It never says that though. Other classes or feats enable opportunity attacks which are actually just normal attacks using your reaction and not in your turn. Am I way off on this one?
I think Unwavering mark still works fine even if we assume that they know they are marked.
Opportunity attacks are always a reaction unless specified otherwise.
Vigilant defender still has to follow the rules for making opportunity attacks (meaning the target has to willingly move). If you think that makes this feature is bad now, consider combining it with sentinel.
I think your problem is that you don't realize that opportunity artacks have their own set of rules associated with them, so these features dont need to reiterate them. https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/combat#OpportunityAttacks
Ok yes now I see. This all makes a lot more sense. Thanks!
I think where I was tripped up is that it often overtly says you use your reaction to _____.
Unwavering Mark - Ultimately, it's up to the DM. Whether the enemy knows they're marked, the DM knows. It's up to them to a) decide if the enemy knows they're marked, b) decide if the enemy even knows what "being marked" means to them, and c) whether that will affect who the enemy chooses to target. Honestly, with my L10 Cavalier it's not that big an issue. He's such a beast that the enemies who come at him are desperate to try and wear him down :)
Hold The Line - This ability only changes the conditions for WHEN you can make the Opportunity Attack, all the other rules such as using your Reaction still apply.
Vigilant Defender - Once again, this ability changes the conditions for when you make an Opportunity Attack, but the other rules still apply. You make the attack against the creature that triggered it. So let's say you're surrounded by enemies Inky, Blinky, Pinky, and Clyde(5pts for getting the reference). On Inky's turn he tries to step away, triggering an Opportunity Attack against Inky. You hit him, and his speed drops to 0 because of Hold The Line. Next, it's Blinky's turn. HE tries to step away, because he's realizing how much of a beast you are and is rethinking his life choices. He triggers an Opportunity Attack against Blinky. ONLY against Blinky. He does not, and cannot, trigger an Opportunity Attack against Inky, Pinky or Clyde.
How did you build your cavalier? Next time I need to be the front line type I'm definitely making one but haven't decided what my plan is. It seems like it's either pole arm or sword and board but maybe there is more I'm not thinking about. Maybe a feat that would actually be useful? It seems like cavaliers have a bunch of similar abilities to some of the better feats or wouldn't be able to use them.
Re: Unwavering Mark, it's naturally going to be contextual. Even if the DM reasons an intelligent enemy would recognize what's happening, it's very unlikely something like a black pudding would.
You either get a bonus swipe at them, or you keep them focused on you, which as a tank you may want to be doing anyway. :)
Mine's a Goliath, and I went Sword(Axe in my case) & Shield with the Dueling fighting style. For a while he had a Greataxe he would wield sometime, but he's since been able to have the enchantment transferred to a Battleaxe. My DM for that game is pretty flexible about such things. Along our journeys we stumbled upon a set of magic Plate armor, meaning my AC is really good even without a shield, so I've been talking with my DM about possibly switching his fighting style. We've occasionally had periods of extended downtime, I brought up the idea of having him spend downtime to essentially retrain his fighting technique, so he'd lose Dueling and gain Two-Weapon Fighting, after which I'd take Dual Wielder at the next ASI/Feat opportunity. When it comes to stats, maxing both Strength and Constitution is big, since they each determine how many times a day you can use one of your Cavalier abilities. I've found that I use Warding Maneuver WAY more often than the bonus attack from Unwavering Mark, mostly because when the bad guys get in my face, they don't go after anyone else. I took the Skilled feat for RP reasons(my guy was trained as a blacksmith, I gave him proficiencies which would help him learn to craft magic items). Sentinel isn't a complete waste even after you get Hold The Line, but it'll be competing with your reaction a lot. I know my DM would love it if I took Mage Slayer, but I think I may focus on maxing my Str/Con first. I have a 19 Strength, and my DM is allowing the Expanded Racial Feats that were a bonus when you pre-ordered Xanathar's Guide on here, so I may take Moutain's Endurance to even my Str out. Plus it'll be a nice defensive boost, since I'm often surrounded by multiples of the same type of enemy.
I'm thinking of a cavalier that would go Fighter 5, Warlock 2, and then finish Fighter. Thoughts on the matter would be a race that can get strength, Constitution, and/or Charisma stat boosts. I'd use point buy to get those stats to 16/15 and anything that was leftover would go into Wisdom. The half-orc version I built was 14+2, 8, 15+1, 8, 10, 15. Sailor background gives skills of Intimidation, Athletics, and Perception. Insight and History were the fighter skills I picked with the intent of going Animal Handling at fighter 3. Picked a glaive, a shield, and the 2 handaxes to go with the chain mail. Defensive fighting style at 1 gives him 17 AC without shield and 19 with.
He'd start as a dual wielder (handaxes) who sometimes uses a shield from his training as a soldier. He might pull out the glaive on occasion but he's still getting the feel for it. At Fighter 3 Unwavering Mark comes on line giving another option for bonus action, so he starts using the glaive more. PAM at Fighter 4 gives him lots of options but a more consistent bonus action means he's full on glaive now. Fighter 5 for Extra Attack. Warlock 1 Brings the hex ability and the option to use charisma for attacks, Eldritch Blast, either mage hand or minor illusion and Shield on a short rest. Warlock 2 brings Repelling Blast and either fiendish vigor, or Grasp of Hadar. It's possible that Beast Speech or Lance of Lethargy could be the second invocation, but that would be dependent on how things are going with the party. Hex or Armor of Agathys for the other spell.
Sentinel or Charisma bump for Fighter 6, Fighter 8 likely the other, Fighter 12 brings Warcaster if it seems like it fits better than the Charisma bump or Fighter 14 otherwise with Fighter 16 finishing Charisma, giving a constitution boost, or whatever else seems helpful. Plus all of the Fighter things in between. He'd switch to spear or quarterstaff to take advantage of Hex Warrior and a shield, probably after warcaster came on line, partially because he doesn't like how unwieldy the glaive is, partially because he misses the option of the shield, and partially because he feels it fits better with his identity as a hexblade.
If he were a human variant, he'd go 15+1 (HAM), 8, 15+1, 8, 8, 15+1 instead. He'd abandon the glaive sooner, noting that he felt more effective with the shorter, lighter weapons and not getting caught up in the sheer savagery possible from glaive strikes like the orc. He'd also feel more at home with the shield and might forgo the glaive altogether for a longsword for more sword & board early. This preference would be because of a desire to simply not get hit being stronger than the desire to finish the fight sooner. He might go dualist instead of defensive fighting style.
I get the feeling that it's more than just opportunity attacks as far as Vigilant Defender goes. Otherwise what would even be the point in taking it. Enemies already trigger AoOs when they leave your reach so what exactly does this add? Does this mean you are normally limited to making 1 (one) attack of opportunity regardless of how many enemies leave your reach?
You have one reaction to make an opportunity attack or otherwise spend per each of your turns. Vigilant Defender gives you a special reaction on each creatures turn to use on an OA. This means that you can have as many OAs as there are enemies instead of just one per round.