The latest "Unearthed Arcana" unveiled new subclasses for the Barbarian and Monk, with the Barbarian now having a bad case of the magics, and the Monk receiving perhaps one of the coolest visual subclasses in their repertoire!
Essentially, the monk channels their ki in such a way to manifest their soul as "arms"...achieving what you would perhaps call spiritual perfection.
In practice, this allows you to become a four-armed pummeler like Goro (Mortal Kombat), Asura (Asura's Wrath) and Amara (Borderlands 3).
But wait, there's more!
You can create a spectral "visage" that covers your face (not creepy at all), giving you strange insight and limited (or MASS) telepathy.
Create a cult. Reap the profits.
The capstone is what seals the deal...you become a spectral warrior with sustained combat benefits, damage and defense. It isn't the "instant-kill" of Open Hand...but it's the next best thing.
Honestly, I can't wait to see if this becomes official!
At the start of combat activate Empty Body as an action and Complete Astral Self as a bonus action.
Let's say an ancient red dragon breathes at you while you're totally naked, even if you fail your dex save, AND it does max damage of 156, AND you roll a 1 on your deflect energy reaction; you would still only take 15 points of damage.
At the start of combat activate Empty Body as an action and Complete Astral Self as a bonus action.
Let's say an ancient red dragon breathes at you while you're totally naked, even if you fail your dex save, AND it does max damage of 156, AND you roll a 1 on your deflect energy reaction; you would still only take 15 points of damage.
I think damage reduction occurs before resistance. That is still down to 27 damage though, and I want it
You're right I’d forgotten about that, so you probably won’t be reducing dragons breath down to 0. But on more average rolls you will still barely feel it.
91 dmg (average of 26d6) / 2 (evasion) = 45 - 28 (roll of 5) = 17 / 2 (resist) for a total of 8 damage from ancient red dragon breath.
white dragons are con saves so they would hit a little harder with no evasion. Average rolls again (72 - 28)/2 is 22 damage.
Then against physical attacks have have a naked ac of 22, disadvantage on attacks against you. Reroll any failed saves for a ki point...
Jeez if I ever run a high level one shot I know what I’m picking.
I think damage reduction occurs before resistance. That is still down to 27 damage though, and I want it
You're right I’d forgotten about that, so you probably won’t be reducing dragons breath down to 0. But on more average rolls you will still barely feel it.
91 dmg (average of 26d6) / 2 (evasion) = 45 - 28 (roll of 5) = 17 / 2 (resist) for a total of 8 damage from ancient red dragon breath.
white dragons are con saves so they would hit a little harder with no evasion. Average rolls again (72 - 28)/2 is 22 damage.
Then against physical attacks have have a naked ac of 22, disadvantage on attacks against you. Reroll any failed saves for a ki point...
Jeez if I ever run a high level one shot I know what I’m picking.
What DxJxC meant was that damage reduction comes first. Using the same average #s:
(((91 - 28)/2)/2) = 63/4 = 15 damage taken
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I think damage reduction occurs before resistance. That is still down to 27 damage though, and I want it
You're right I’d forgotten about that, so you probably won’t be reducing dragons breath down to 0. But on more average rolls you will still barely feel it.
91 dmg (average of 26d6) / 2 (evasion) = 45 - 28 (roll of 5) = 17 / 2 (resist) for a total of 8 damage from ancient red dragon breath.
white dragons are con saves so they would hit a little harder with no evasion. Average rolls again (72 - 28)/2 is 22 damage.
Then against physical attacks have have a naked ac of 22, disadvantage on attacks against you. Reroll any failed saves for a ki point...
Jeez if I ever run a high level one shot I know what I’m picking.
What DxJxC meant was that damage reduction comes first. Using the same average #s:
(((91 - 28)/2)/2) = 63/4 = 15 damage taken
Do you know of anywhere in the rules that shows this?
I know damage resistance comes last, which I had forgotten about in my first post. But evasion is an upgrade to your dexterity saving throws, which come before your reaction. So evasion would apply first because that’s how much damage actually reaches your character before you take any action to deflect it.
I think damage reduction occurs before resistance. That is still down to 27 damage though, and I want it
You're right I’d forgotten about that, so you probably won’t be reducing dragons breath down to 0. But on more average rolls you will still barely feel it.
91 dmg (average of 26d6) / 2 (evasion) = 45 - 28 (roll of 5) = 17 / 2 (resist) for a total of 8 damage from ancient red dragon breath.
white dragons are con saves so they would hit a little harder with no evasion. Average rolls again (72 - 28)/2 is 22 damage.
Then against physical attacks have have a naked ac of 22, disadvantage on attacks against you. Reroll any failed saves for a ki point...
Jeez if I ever run a high level one shot I know what I’m picking.
What DxJxC meant was that damage reduction comes first. Using the same average #s:
(((91 - 28)/2)/2) = 63/4 = 15 damage taken
Do you know of anywhere in the rules that shows this?
I know damage resistance comes last, which I had forgotten about in my first post. But evasion is an upgrade to your dexterity saving throws, which come before your reaction. So evasion would apply first because that’s how much damage actually reaches your character before you take any action to deflect it.
Evasion happens at the same moment that resistance would. The order of operations is: anything that reduces damage by a set amount first (heavy armor master, deflect arrows/energy, etc.), and anything that reduces damage proportionally (evasion, resistance, uncanny dodge, etc.) last.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Does that include saving throws not counting evasion? If someone with heavy armor master made a reflex save against piercing damage, would they reduce the damage by 3 first and then cut that in half?
Im not sure that’s RAI, why would you need to deflect or reduce damage that doesn’t touch you?
Does that include saving throws not counting evasion? If someone with heavy armor master made a reflex save against piercing damage, would they reduce the damage by 3 first and then cut that in half?
Im not sure that’s RAI, why would you need to deflect or reduce damage that doesn’t touch you?
1) Yes, that is the order. Reduce total damage by 3 first, and then cut that in half.
2) It is both RAW and RAI. Damage not touching you is the point; it's 3 points of damage that fails to penetrate your armor.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Does that include saving throws not counting evasion? If someone with heavy armor master made a reflex save against piercing damage, would they reduce the damage by 3 first and then cut that in half?
Im not sure that’s RAI, why would you need to deflect or reduce damage that doesn’t touch you?
1) Yes, that is the order. Reduce total damage by 3 first, and then cut that in half.
2) It is both RAW and RAI. Damage not touching you is the point; it's 3 points of damage that fails to penetrate your armor.
By making a reflex save that damage isn’t even touching the armor though, is the point I’m trying to get across.
if you step on a trap and 10 spikes get sent at you and you dodge out of the way of 5 spikes, why would your armor reduce the damage from 10 spikes first?
Does that include saving throws not counting evasion? If someone with heavy armor master made a reflex save against piercing damage, would they reduce the damage by 3 first and then cut that in half?
Im not sure that’s RAI, why would you need to deflect or reduce damage that doesn’t touch you?
1) Yes, that is the order. Reduce total damage by 3 first, and then cut that in half.
2) It is both RAW and RAI. Damage not touching you is the point; it's 3 points of damage that fails to penetrate your armor.
By making a reflex save that damage isn’t even touching the armor though, is the point I’m trying to get across.
if you step on a trap and 10 spikes get sent at you and you dodge out of the way of 5 spikes, why would your armor reduce the damage from 10 spikes first?
You're thinking about causation incorrectly.
First, let's clean up your analogy so that it's actually in line with the mechanics being debated: if the trap requires you to make a Dex saving throw to avoid damage, you aren't dodging 5/10 spikes; you've been attacked by the entire trap. Let's say the trap deals 10d6 piercing damage (10 spikes dealing 1d6 each) on an unsuccessful saving throw.
There are 3 possible sequences to follow at the moment you need to roll that saving throw. You've either got no damage (Evasion + success on save), half-damage (Evasion + fail, or no Evasion + success), or full-damage (no Evasion + fail). There is NO damage reduction happening yet. You are only determining which sequence to follow.
No damage sequence:
No damage. You're done here.
Half-damage sequence:
Base damage is rolled.
Damage reduction happens first. Subtract the flat amount that total damage is reduced by (HAM).
Damage mitigation happens last. If applicable, reduce the remaining total damage by whatever factor your features dictate (half for Evasion, no Evasion + save, Resistance, etc.).
Full-damage sequence:
Base damage is rolled
If applicable, damage reduction is applied (HAM)
If applicable, damage mitigation is applied (Resistance).
Now let's go back to the analogy. You've activated the trap and have to roll a Dex save to avoid half damage on a success. You fail your save, but you have Evasion and HAM. Evasion means, at the end of the sequence, you're looking at half of the net damage from the trap. It does not mean you are taking 5d6 from the trap. You've been hit by the whole thing; just not the whole force from it. Flat damage reduction happens first because it is the amount of incoming damage that was absorbed or deflected by your armor directly. Mitigation happens after this because you are responding to what did actually get through your armor.
Remember, you didnot dodge the trap entirely. You are being hit, and your armor is the first point of contact.
The damage calculation would be: (10d6 - (flat reduction)) / (proportional mitigation))
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Did you have a section of the manual or Sage advice? All I can find is that damage resistance and vulnerability comes after all other damage modifiers, but passing saving throws isn’t adding resistance, it lowers the incoming damage. That’s why it can stack with resistance but resistance can’t stack with another resistance.
just curious because if not I think we are in an “agree to disagree” or “DM ruling” situation. Not really interested in pursuing the discussion further.
Did you have a section of the manual or Sage advice? All I can find is that damage resistance and vulnerability comes after all other damage modifiers, but passing saving throws isn’t adding resistance, it lowers the incoming damage. That’s why it can stack with resistance but resistance can’t stack with another resistance.
just curious because if not I think we are in an “agree to disagree” or “DM ruling” situation. Not really interested in pursuing the discussion further.
Either way, Astral Monk is a freaking tank.
You answered your own question: Evasion isn't a damage modifier (flat); it's in the same group as resistance (proportional).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Did you have a section of the manual or Sage advice? All I can find is that damage resistance and vulnerability comes after all other damage modifiers, but passing saving throws isn’t adding resistance, it lowers the incoming damage. That’s why it can stack with resistance but resistance can’t stack with another resistance.
just curious because if not I think we are in an “agree to disagree” or “DM ruling” situation. Not really interested in pursuing the discussion further.
Either way, Astral Monk is a freaking tank.
You answered your own question: Evasion isn't a damage modifier (flat); it's in the same group as resistance (proportional).
Agree to disagree then, since evasion isn't resistance or vulnerability.
So...this sounds amazing.
The latest "Unearthed Arcana" unveiled new subclasses for the Barbarian and Monk, with the Barbarian now having a bad case of the magics, and the Monk receiving perhaps one of the coolest visual subclasses in their repertoire!
Essentially, the monk channels their ki in such a way to manifest their soul as "arms"...achieving what you would perhaps call spiritual perfection.
In practice, this allows you to become a four-armed pummeler like Goro (Mortal Kombat), Asura (Asura's Wrath) and Amara (Borderlands 3).
But wait, there's more!
You can create a spectral "visage" that covers your face (not creepy at all), giving you strange insight and limited (or MASS) telepathy.
Create a cult. Reap the profits.
The capstone is what seals the deal...you become a spectral warrior with sustained combat benefits, damage and defense. It isn't the "instant-kill" of Open Hand...but it's the next best thing.
Honestly, I can't wait to see if this becomes official!
Here's the link:
https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/barbarian-and-monk
Yeah it's pretty cool. But please keep UA discussions in the UA forum. There is also already a discussion thread there: https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/unearthed-arcana/44998-new-ua-wild-magic-barbarian-and-astral-monk
Noted, and taken to heart!
Any idea how or when this class will be available on D&D beyond’s character builder? Thanks
Takes a bit; maybe a week or two.
It's on today. Fastest I've ever seen such implementation.
Man this is a Tanky build at 18th level.
At the start of combat activate Empty Body as an action and Complete Astral Self as a bonus action.
Let's say an ancient red dragon breathes at you while you're totally naked, even if you fail your dex save, AND it does max damage of 156, AND you roll a 1 on your deflect energy reaction; you would still only take 15 points of damage.
156 / 2 (evasion) / 2 (Empty Body) = 39 - (1d10 + Wis modifier + monk level) 24 minimum = 15 max damage.
I think damage reduction occurs before resistance. That is still down to 27 damage though, and I want it.
You're right I’d forgotten about that, so you probably won’t be reducing dragons breath down to 0. But on more average rolls you will still barely feel it.
91 dmg (average of 26d6) / 2 (evasion) = 45 - 28 (roll of 5) = 17 / 2 (resist) for a total of 8 damage from ancient red dragon breath.
white dragons are con saves so they would hit a little harder with no evasion. Average rolls again (72 - 28)/2 is 22 damage.
Then against physical attacks have have a naked ac of 22, disadvantage on attacks against you. Reroll any failed saves for a ki point...
Jeez if I ever run a high level one shot I know what I’m picking.
What DxJxC meant was that damage reduction comes first. Using the same average #s:
(((91 - 28)/2)/2) = 63/4 = 15 damage taken
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Do you know of anywhere in the rules that shows this?
I know damage resistance comes last, which I had forgotten about in my first post. But evasion is an upgrade to your dexterity saving throws, which come before your reaction. So evasion would apply first because that’s how much damage actually reaches your character before you take any action to deflect it.
Evasion happens at the same moment that resistance would. The order of operations is: anything that reduces damage by a set amount first (heavy armor master, deflect arrows/energy, etc.), and anything that reduces damage proportionally (evasion, resistance, uncanny dodge, etc.) last.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Does that include saving throws not counting evasion? If someone with heavy armor master made a reflex save against piercing damage, would they reduce the damage by 3 first and then cut that in half?
Im not sure that’s RAI, why would you need to deflect or reduce damage that doesn’t touch you?
1) Yes, that is the order. Reduce total damage by 3 first, and then cut that in half.
2) It is both RAW and RAI. Damage not touching you is the point; it's 3 points of damage that fails to penetrate your armor.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
By making a reflex save that damage isn’t even touching the armor though, is the point I’m trying to get across.
if you step on a trap and 10 spikes get sent at you and you dodge out of the way of 5 spikes, why would your armor reduce the damage from 10 spikes first?
You're thinking about causation incorrectly.
First, let's clean up your analogy so that it's actually in line with the mechanics being debated: if the trap requires you to make a Dex saving throw to avoid damage, you aren't dodging 5/10 spikes; you've been attacked by the entire trap. Let's say the trap deals 10d6 piercing damage (10 spikes dealing 1d6 each) on an unsuccessful saving throw.
There are 3 possible sequences to follow at the moment you need to roll that saving throw. You've either got no damage (Evasion + success on save), half-damage (Evasion + fail, or no Evasion + success), or full-damage (no Evasion + fail). There is NO damage reduction happening yet. You are only determining which sequence to follow.
No damage sequence:
Half-damage sequence:
Full-damage sequence:
Now let's go back to the analogy. You've activated the trap and have to roll a Dex save to avoid half damage on a success. You fail your save, but you have Evasion and HAM. Evasion means, at the end of the sequence, you're looking at half of the net damage from the trap. It does not mean you are taking 5d6 from the trap. You've been hit by the whole thing; just not the whole force from it. Flat damage reduction happens first because it is the amount of incoming damage that was absorbed or deflected by your armor directly. Mitigation happens after this because you are responding to what did actually get through your armor.
Remember, you did not dodge the trap entirely. You are being hit, and your armor is the first point of contact.
The damage calculation would be: (10d6 - (flat reduction)) / (proportional mitigation))
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Did you have a section of the manual or Sage advice? All I can find is that damage resistance and vulnerability comes after all other damage modifiers, but passing saving throws isn’t adding resistance, it lowers the incoming damage. That’s why it can stack with resistance but resistance can’t stack with another resistance.
just curious because if not I think we are in an “agree to disagree” or “DM ruling” situation. Not really interested in pursuing the discussion further.
Either way, Astral Monk is a freaking tank.
You answered your own question: Evasion isn't a damage modifier (flat); it's in the same group as resistance (proportional).
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Agree to disagree then, since evasion isn't resistance or vulnerability.
Good discussion though.
Saving throws definitely come first. Before that, no damage has been assigned.