I'm not sure of what to do with a situation. I'm playing a Paladin of Bahamut.
My party just ended a session where our bard tried to persuade the Queen of Air and Darkness herself to give him money for a quest he agreed to. Now, the quest is he has to defile a temple of one of the Good aligned deities in the area, convert some of their followers to her, OR murder people in her name. He's going with the conversion method, but I'm not sure how to react. Would you say that what he's doing is evil? I'm tempted to fight his character, but I'm conflicted... Any help?
As a fellow paladin of Bahamut player...I feel you. It can be difficult balancing RP with not getting in others' ways. Since one of my party members is part of the Zhentarim, I will tell him (out of character) "don't let my character find out" and I try to keep my paladin blissfully ignorant. Yes, it's meta-gaming, but it's in an attempt to keep the game fun for everyone. Paladin's are great assets, but a party policeman can get...boring and, even worse, frustrating. Fighting other PCs because they don't follow your religion's doctrine just isn't fun.
But to answer your question: doing deeds for an evil God is certainly not good. A paladin of Bahamut would definitely be opposed to this. But the bard is just doing it for money, not real worship, so it's more Chaotic Selfish than evil. Maybe the bard convinces your paladin that he's not really converting anyone, or that it's better him than a real devotee. The bard could make you think you "convinced" him not to convert people, but then go on and do the quest without you knowing. The bard put himself in this situation with his words and I don't see why he couldn't use those words to get you off his back for the sake of RP.
If you really feel like it's an issue, talk to the other player and your DM. "I don't want to start a fight, but I feel like for RP my character would." It sort of breaks immersion, but I feel like just attacking another PC because your character doesn't "like" their decision is a recipe for hard feelings. In my party, a PC killed an innocent. I looked him in the eye and said "You committed a blatant crime in public. You know I have to try and arrest you, right? I'm really sorry" He understood and trusted that I wouldn't kill his character (I actually saved him from being killed by a mob of angry NPCs).
Also consider that, of the three options, the Bard chose probably the nicest one. I'd give the Bard a chance to talk his way out of it: either to convince your Paladin why this serves the greater good, or to deceive your Paladin, or to appeal to your Paladin's sense of duty ("I owe the Queen for this favour, and this is the least of all evils to repay her"). It doesn't have to be a black-and-white "You did a bad thing, now you have to die" situation. Remember that the game is cooperative, even if the PCs don't always have to agree.
As a fellow paladin of Bahamut player...I feel you. It can be difficult balancing RP with not getting in others' ways. Since one of my party members is part of the Zhentarim, I will tell him (out of character) "don't let my character find out" and I try to keep my paladin blissfully ignorant. Yes, it's meta-gaming, but it's in an attempt to keep the game fun for everyone. Paladin's are great assets, but a party policeman can get...boring and, even worse, frustrating. Fighting other PCs because they don't follow your religion's doctrine just isn't fun.
I am facing a similar dilemma with the Zhentarim in Storm Kings Thunder. My party is very unlikely to resist the Zhentarim presence Nightstone...in fact an alliance could benefit our Trading Company. So, as a Devotion Paladin of Moradin do I resist? Maybe I just view this as an affair between humans and of no concerns to dwarves? The Village is ruins after all and we are in no place to rebuid it.
I am facing a similar dilemma with the Zhentarim in Storm Kings Thunder. My party is very unlikely to resist the Zhentarim presence Nightstone...in fact an alliance could benefit our Trading Company. So, as a Devotion Paladin of Moradin do I resist? Maybe I just view this an affair between humans and of no concerns to dwarves? The Village is ruins after all and we are in no place to rebuid it.
I try to view it like this: not everyone in the Zhentarim is evil. Sure, the guys calling the shots will do anything the further their goals, but what about the workers? Guards, miners, and townspeople who rely on business brought by the Zhents aren't evil--they're just trying to work and get by. I actually ran into the same problem in SKT where we went to liberate a town taken over by religious fanatics. That town was Zhentarim-run and we didn't have time to set up a whole new government, etc. I had my paladin decide that saving the townspeople was #1 priority, regardless of who was "in charge". Zhentarim or not, there were still innocent people who needed help and I wouldn't turn by backs on them just because their boss sucks. I also didn't want to derail the party for three sessions again, like the time I insisted we investigate some kidnappings...anyway....
It sounds like this town really needs help rebuilding, so I wouldn't say your paladin would be "wrong" to let the Zhents rebuild the town and people's livelihoods. As long as there isn't any blantant exotortion or wrong doing, it wouldn't be bad RP to let it slide. There's also the saying "keep your friends close, but your enemies closer", but that just may be the Harper in me talking
This is some really thoughtful advice! I appreciate it. My Dwarf Pally is really fun to play because his motives are so strong and simple: Smite Evil, while singing dwarves battle hymns, at all costs. Situations like this are not so simple. It’s too easy to turn Lawful Good into Lawful Stupid.
Thanks guys. It didn't really matter much in the end. We had to run for our lives through a house nearby(which our guide assured us that a portal was inside). I was the only one who was at the session that actually survived since our party has issues fighting as a team. So now the two Dex based Paladins get to figure things out.
Once again, thank you guys for the input.
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I'm not sure of what to do with a situation. I'm playing a Paladin of Bahamut.
My party just ended a session where our bard tried to persuade the Queen of Air and Darkness herself to give him money for a quest he agreed to. Now, the quest is he has to defile a temple of one of the Good aligned deities in the area, convert some of their followers to her, OR murder people in her name. He's going with the conversion method, but I'm not sure how to react. Would you say that what he's doing is evil? I'm tempted to fight his character, but I'm conflicted... Any help?
As a fellow paladin of Bahamut player...I feel you. It can be difficult balancing RP with not getting in others' ways. Since one of my party members is part of the Zhentarim, I will tell him (out of character) "don't let my character find out" and I try to keep my paladin blissfully ignorant. Yes, it's meta-gaming, but it's in an attempt to keep the game fun for everyone. Paladin's are great assets, but a party policeman can get...boring and, even worse, frustrating. Fighting other PCs because they don't follow your religion's doctrine just isn't fun.
But to answer your question: doing deeds for an evil God is certainly not good. A paladin of Bahamut would definitely be opposed to this. But the bard is just doing it for money, not real worship, so it's more Chaotic Selfish than evil. Maybe the bard convinces your paladin that he's not really converting anyone, or that it's better him than a real devotee. The bard could make you think you "convinced" him not to convert people, but then go on and do the quest without you knowing. The bard put himself in this situation with his words and I don't see why he couldn't use those words to get you off his back for the sake of RP.
If you really feel like it's an issue, talk to the other player and your DM. "I don't want to start a fight, but I feel like for RP my character would." It sort of breaks immersion, but I feel like just attacking another PC because your character doesn't "like" their decision is a recipe for hard feelings. In my party, a PC killed an innocent. I looked him in the eye and said "You committed a blatant crime in public. You know I have to try and arrest you, right? I'm really sorry" He understood and trusted that I wouldn't kill his character (I actually saved him from being killed by a mob of angry NPCs).
Also consider that, of the three options, the Bard chose probably the nicest one. I'd give the Bard a chance to talk his way out of it: either to convince your Paladin why this serves the greater good, or to deceive your Paladin, or to appeal to your Paladin's sense of duty ("I owe the Queen for this favour, and this is the least of all evils to repay her"). It doesn't have to be a black-and-white "You did a bad thing, now you have to die" situation. Remember that the game is cooperative, even if the PCs don't always have to agree.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
I am facing a similar dilemma with the Zhentarim in Storm Kings Thunder. My party is very unlikely to resist the Zhentarim presence Nightstone...in fact an alliance could benefit our Trading Company. So, as a Devotion Paladin of Moradin do I resist? Maybe I just view this as an affair between humans and of no concerns to dwarves? The Village is ruins after all and we are in no place to rebuid it.
I try to view it like this: not everyone in the Zhentarim is evil. Sure, the guys calling the shots will do anything the further their goals, but what about the workers? Guards, miners, and townspeople who rely on business brought by the Zhents aren't evil--they're just trying to work and get by. I actually ran into the same problem in SKT where we went to liberate a town taken over by religious fanatics. That town was Zhentarim-run and we didn't have time to set up a whole new government, etc. I had my paladin decide that saving the townspeople was #1 priority, regardless of who was "in charge". Zhentarim or not, there were still innocent people who needed help and I wouldn't turn by backs on them just because their boss sucks. I also didn't want to derail the party for three sessions again, like the time I insisted we investigate some kidnappings...anyway....
It sounds like this town really needs help rebuilding, so I wouldn't say your paladin would be "wrong" to let the Zhents rebuild the town and people's livelihoods. As long as there isn't any blantant exotortion or wrong doing, it wouldn't be bad RP to let it slide. There's also the saying "keep your friends close, but your enemies closer", but that just may be the Harper in me talking
This is some really thoughtful advice! I appreciate it. My Dwarf Pally is really fun to play because his motives are so strong and simple: Smite Evil, while singing dwarves battle hymns, at all costs. Situations like this are not so simple. It’s too easy to turn Lawful Good into Lawful Stupid.
Thanks guys. It didn't really matter much in the end. We had to run for our lives through a house nearby(which our guide assured us that a portal was inside). I was the only one who was at the session that actually survived since our party has issues fighting as a team. So now the two Dex based Paladins get to figure things out.
Once again, thank you guys for the input.