1) Find Steed says the mount can be summoned, but doesn't specify anything about gear being carried. I assume anything you put on the mount goes into the same pocket dimension (saddle, barding, etc...)
2) Paladins don't have Handle Animal on their skill list, so unless you get it from you background a Paladin is unlikely to pass any difficult ride checks.
3) Has anyone actually used a mount and had it be successful. The "average" mastiff has an AC: 12 and 5 HP. Any Goblin can shoot your mount out from under you!
3a) The Mounted Combat Feat does let you force the enemy to attack you instead of the mount, which should help a lot and it gives the mount Evasion, but it still only has a Dex mod of +2! (it will be a little better if you're a Paladin and high enough level to give it your CHA bonus)
I've been wanting to make a character like this, but I'm just questioning the viability and hoping to see if I've missed anything.
Did I miss anything about "improving" the mount itself?
I mean, small animals are typically going to have a low AC and a small amount of hit points. So, yeah if you use a dog, you're gonna have to deal with it being easily killed. That's why goblins ride Worgs or wolves.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
"yes" medium animals have less HP, but there is nothing to help keep the mount more survivable as you level. Especially since you don't get a mystical mount until 5th level.
Even the feat doesn't help much.
Adv against smaller targets with melee attacks is nifty, but much better for large mounts.
You can force targets to target you instead of the mount, which is VERY important.
Giving the mount evasion is rather silly, because they aren't trained on Dex Saves, so they have a whopping +1-3 based on the mount.
It feels like you're going to spend a lot of time carrying a saddle around.
Wolves aren't much more powerful the dogs and Worgs are good, but not exactly a PC option... heck the goblin rider is usually a lower CR then his mount!
I would also never ask for Handle Animal for a mount summoned with Find Steed. It's not even an animal! It's a Celestial, Fey or Fiend with a minimum intelligence of 6 (like some barbarians >.> ) that can understand your language and communicate telepathically with you.
Also, don't forget you can affect your mount with spells that affect the paladin, such as Protection from Evil, Shield of Faith, Aid, etc.
And why is evasion that bad? It may not have a +6 (until you get Aura of Protection), but it will still get half damage when it fails a save (and no damage if it succeeds). It's pretty good, survivability-wise, even when not directly compared to the alternative (of not having evasion).
I don't find the evasion that impressive because the "best" steed in the book is a Warhorse. It has 19 hitpoints. an "average" roll (8d6 at 3.5*8) is 28 damage. The steed will have 5 HP left. Unless your mount is *really* lucky you're probably going to be painting numbers on your mount instead of naming them! :P
Essentially I would never call for a handle animal check, and with the mounted combat feat I'd rule that essentially the mount is never at serious risk except for large AOE. Typically I use it for a better movement speed, or something special. Notice though that each time you cast the spell you can have a different steed show up. So for a dungeon I had a spider, and just spent the time walking along the walls, then when we got outside summoned a panther for that faster speed, and an octopus for swim speed. My DM has not allowed something with a fly speed yet, but I haven't actually used the spell since 6th level, and we are level 11 now.
I am a paladin and have a warhorse as my mount and it is working really well. I'm thinking of taking levels in fighter cavalier for more options and getting a pegasus at 13th, but at the moment, the warhorse is great. He has my CHA to his saves, sure, and the mounted combantant making them hit me is good, as i am sitting up there with 23 AC when shield of faith is up so I'm hard to hit anyway. I love the versatility that it gives me
We allow all familiars and steeds to get more hit dice if the caster uses a higher level spell slot to cast them. It helps their survival tremendously.
my kender paladin (dont ask the DM allowed it cause it was a hilarious backstory) had a bear as a stead and he rode him ...dare i say it.....bear back ....and Ruben was pretty good in a fight with 2 claws 1d6 and a bite 1d8 he did some decent damage
and think about this its only a lvl 2 spell and every hit your mount takes is 1 that a party member doesnt
My plan is to beef up the summoned mount by giving it "PC" hit points (full first hit die and three quarters later hit dice) as well as giving an additional hit die for "upcasting" the spell to 3rd level (and keeping that hit die if resummoned with the normal 2nd slot).
Also, adjusting the stat block to be equal to the best mount option for other mounts. So, a riding mastiff would be roughly equivalent to a war horse in stats.
Oh...and allowing it to be summoned and dismissed with basic equipment like saddle and barding (otherwise the paladin RAW needs to be carrying around a saddle for when they summon their mount). That should give the mount a few extra AC points. Maybe even have it be summoned with a lance or horse bow for the paladin to be a mounted warrior as appropriate for their style. But not random gear or treasure...just what they would have when coming out of the heavenly stables.
And I'm a little iffy about the paladin hitting 13th level and forgetting about Mr McHorsey the loyal steed and summoning a new mount with Find Greater Steed...so maybe allow for an advanced version of their current steed...or saying Mr McHorsey gets wings.
I know this is a really old thread, but the summoned steed is a spirit. Spirits can take different forms if you choose to see it that way. You might be bonded to a specific spirit for your entire existence, the spirit just becomes more empowered with greater spell magic.
You could also rule that each summon is of a different spirit bound in servitude. Another framing could be as an extension of the character's own willpower manifesting the summoned spirit as a tool like any utility spell.
All flavor text, but seeing the steed or familiar as a thing to be treasured or tossed is part of the character's identity and maybe even an alignment viewpoint. In the end, the text states it is a spirit of either fey, fiend, or celestial origin, so it is a creature you coerce and bind to your servitude. It manifests in the shape the character chooses and can be treated however the character wishes without any regard for the spirit's well being. You can reskin any stat block to fit your aesthetic. You could be Slangmoore the ogre wrecker on your trusty giant shrub. The shrub is just a reskinned rhinoceros, but is actually a fey spirit taking on that form because you willed it so through your magic ritual.
Now I want to create a goblin paladin riding a giant shrub around beating up ogres for sport.
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IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
1) Find Steed says the mount can be summoned, but doesn't specify anything about gear being carried. I assume anything you put on the mount goes into the same pocket dimension (saddle, barding, etc...) - We have my mount appear with the saddle ready for battle at a moments notice. When it dies or is dismissed it returns to Mount Celestia dropping anything it didn't arrive with.
2) Paladins don't have Handle Animal on their skill list, so unless you get it from you background a Paladin is unlikely to pass any difficult ride checks. It has an intelligence of 6 and communicates telepathically with you. In that sense they become a team that moves as one and works in unison. Also it has come to serve you so there shouldn't need to be any checks.
3) Has anyone actually used a mount and had it be successful. The "average" mastiff has an AC: 12 and 5 HP. Any Goblin can shoot your mount out from under you! DnD is about fun. Why not have the Mastiff with the stats of the Warhorse??? But of course enemies can attack your steed making you lose your speed and manoeuvrability. That is unless you go the Mounted Combatant.
3a) The Mounted Combat Feat does let you force the enemy to attack you instead of the mount, which should help a lot and it gives the mount Evasion, but it still only has a Dex mod of +2! (it will be a little better if you're a Paladin and high enough level to give it your CHA bonus). I have taken my mounted combatant steed (and then Greater Steed) into many battles and unfortunately AOE is how it dies. I can cast cure wounds on myself and give it to my steed too but sometimes it's a case of smite and say goodbye until I can summon him the next day. There are also times when I couldn't take my steed into places (such as Balders Gate) which negates the benefits of the feat. I'm not a min-maxer though, so these times just make me miss my steed even more and feel stronger when I return to him. I can say though that they will remain for much longer if you have the feat and the speed and manoeuvrability (dash and disengage) is so useful as a paladin.
I kinda have the "mastiff with the stats of the warhorse". i am a tortle so RAW couldn't ride a mastiff, but liked the idea of it, so worked with my DM to create a warhorse stats with mastiff attack and skin homebrew celestial mount for myself. regarding equipment, i don't use any saddle or feed the mount due to it being magical and i am telepathically linked to it, so it has no equipment on it that is not "on me" in the future if i decide on any extra like saddle bags then i understand that i will need to carry them if the mount disappears.
Find Steed is a variation of the utility spell, the same way Find Familiar is. If you are expecting to get another combatant on the field to fight next to you then that is a frustrating thing. I think they are better served in assistant roles for covering terrain, carrying capacity, scouting, general mobility out of combat. In combat, AOE will burn all of them to the ground. The mounted combat feat is their to give you an opportunity to have a mount survive combat long enough as a mobility extension to fill that player need, but the mount itself is still not going to contribute much. I used the fact the spell can summon a mastiff to debate that summoning a medium sized mount is still viable as a medium creature and parley a useful CR 1/2 companion animal, akin to what a ranger should get, instead of a CR 1/2 warhorse. All of these options soon become way better as a utility spell benefit: ape, black bear, giant wasp, reef shark. Heck an ape would have better combat effectiveness because it can throw rocks and climb. That list feels way cooler than a large mount to ride: crocodile, giant goat, warhorse, and giant seahorse.
Personally, I would summon the warhorse for overland movement just in case something happened, but in cities or forests where the warhorse would falter, I would summon an ape (general utility and throwing), a giant wasp (flying scout), or black bear (ADV scent) over a riding beast. And lets face it, would you rather look like every other knight with their horse in the stable or tied to a tree, or walking around with a bear grumbling at your side, giant wasp hovering over your head, or an ape brooding next to you?
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IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
As I mentioned in another thread, Tasha's rules for Warrior Sidekicks have made the findsteed spell awesome! A non-mythic mount that doesn't die when a monster sneezes on it, scaling with the player and gaining its own useful combat abilities.
Numfar! Do the dance of joy!
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Frankly, my dear, I'd rather be listening to Rehn Stillnight.
It's an okay spell. Because it's summoned you don't necessarily have to worry about feeding it, but it can't grow in power. Or can it? The now-official rules for sidekicks may help with that. As I understand it, the new rules only care about the CR of the creature and/or whether it knows a language. Which means it might also work with summoned familiars.
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I've been thinking of playing a Halfing Paladin: Oath of the Ancients.
Being a small creature I can cast Find Steed to get a fey mastiff.
I have two questions:
1) Find Steed says the mount can be summoned, but doesn't specify anything about gear being carried. I assume anything you put on the mount goes into the same pocket dimension (saddle, barding, etc...)
2) Paladins don't have Handle Animal on their skill list, so unless you get it from you background a Paladin is unlikely to pass any difficult ride checks.
3) Has anyone actually used a mount and had it be successful. The "average" mastiff has an AC: 12 and 5 HP. Any Goblin can shoot your mount out from under you!
3a) The Mounted Combat Feat does let you force the enemy to attack you instead of the mount, which should help a lot and it gives the mount Evasion, but it still only has a Dex mod of +2! (it will be a little better if you're a Paladin and high enough level to give it your CHA bonus)
I've been wanting to make a character like this, but I'm just questioning the viability and hoping to see if I've missed anything.
Did I miss anything about "improving" the mount itself?
I mean, small animals are typically going to have a low AC and a small amount of hit points. So, yeah if you use a dog, you're gonna have to deal with it being easily killed. That's why goblins ride Worgs or wolves.
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“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
The steed does not make your equipment disappear.
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/859641979487105024
I'm finding the halfing outrider subpar then.
"yes" medium animals have less HP, but there is nothing to help keep the mount more survivable as you level. Especially since you don't get a mystical mount until 5th level.
Even the feat doesn't help much.
It feels like you're going to spend a lot of time carrying a saddle around.
Wolves aren't much more powerful the dogs and Worgs are good, but not exactly a PC option... heck the goblin rider is usually a lower CR then his mount!
The spell mentions that you are quasi a unity. So as a DM I would never ask for a handle animal check.
I would also never ask for Handle Animal for a mount summoned with Find Steed. It's not even an animal! It's a Celestial, Fey or Fiend with a minimum intelligence of 6 (like some barbarians >.> ) that can understand your language and communicate telepathically with you.
Also, don't forget you can affect your mount with spells that affect the paladin, such as Protection from Evil, Shield of Faith, Aid, etc.
And why is evasion that bad? It may not have a +6 (until you get Aura of Protection), but it will still get half damage when it fails a save (and no damage if it succeeds). It's pretty good, survivability-wise, even when not directly compared to the alternative (of not having evasion).
I don't find the evasion that impressive because the "best" steed in the book is a Warhorse. It has 19 hitpoints. an "average" roll (8d6 at 3.5*8) is 28 damage. The steed will have 5 HP left. Unless your mount is *really* lucky you're probably going to be painting numbers on your mount instead of naming them! :P
Fair. Mounts are better suited to travel times than dungeon delving anyway.
Although I concede the point in protest. 5hp is better than the alternative of roast equine, after all... :p
But! No numbers! One name should suffice, since when you recast the same mount shows up (healed).
May I suggest"Roach"? :p
Essentially I would never call for a handle animal check, and with the mounted combat feat I'd rule that essentially the mount is never at serious risk except for large AOE. Typically I use it for a better movement speed, or something special. Notice though that each time you cast the spell you can have a different steed show up. So for a dungeon I had a spider, and just spent the time walking along the walls, then when we got outside summoned a panther for that faster speed, and an octopus for swim speed. My DM has not allowed something with a fly speed yet, but I haven't actually used the spell since 6th level, and we are level 11 now.
I am a paladin and have a warhorse as my mount and it is working really well. I'm thinking of taking levels in fighter cavalier for more options and getting a pegasus at 13th, but at the moment, the warhorse is great. He has my CHA to his saves, sure, and the mounted combantant making them hit me is good, as i am sitting up there with 23 AC when shield of faith is up so I'm hard to hit anyway. I love the versatility that it gives me
We allow all familiars and steeds to get more hit dice if the caster uses a higher level spell slot to cast them. It helps their survival tremendously.
my kender paladin (dont ask the DM allowed it cause it was a hilarious backstory) had a bear as a stead and he rode him ...dare i say it.....bear back ....and Ruben was pretty good in a fight with 2 claws 1d6 and a bite 1d8 he did some decent damage
and think about this its only a lvl 2 spell and every hit your mount takes is 1 that a party member doesnt
My plan is to beef up the summoned mount by giving it "PC" hit points (full first hit die and three quarters later hit dice) as well as giving an additional hit die for "upcasting" the spell to 3rd level (and keeping that hit die if resummoned with the normal 2nd slot).
Also, adjusting the stat block to be equal to the best mount option for other mounts. So, a riding mastiff would be roughly equivalent to a war horse in stats.
Oh...and allowing it to be summoned and dismissed with basic equipment like saddle and barding (otherwise the paladin RAW needs to be carrying around a saddle for when they summon their mount). That should give the mount a few extra AC points. Maybe even have it be summoned with a lance or horse bow for the paladin to be a mounted warrior as appropriate for their style. But not random gear or treasure...just what they would have when coming out of the heavenly stables.
And I'm a little iffy about the paladin hitting 13th level and forgetting about Mr McHorsey the loyal steed and summoning a new mount with Find Greater Steed...so maybe allow for an advanced version of their current steed...or saying Mr McHorsey gets wings.
I know this is a really old thread, but the summoned steed is a spirit. Spirits can take different forms if you choose to see it that way. You might be bonded to a specific spirit for your entire existence, the spirit just becomes more empowered with greater spell magic.
You could also rule that each summon is of a different spirit bound in servitude. Another framing could be as an extension of the character's own willpower manifesting the summoned spirit as a tool like any utility spell.
All flavor text, but seeing the steed or familiar as a thing to be treasured or tossed is part of the character's identity and maybe even an alignment viewpoint. In the end, the text states it is a spirit of either fey, fiend, or celestial origin, so it is a creature you coerce and bind to your servitude. It manifests in the shape the character chooses and can be treated however the character wishes without any regard for the spirit's well being. You can reskin any stat block to fit your aesthetic. You could be Slangmoore the ogre wrecker on your trusty giant shrub. The shrub is just a reskinned rhinoceros, but is actually a fey spirit taking on that form because you willed it so through your magic ritual.
Now I want to create a goblin paladin riding a giant shrub around beating up ogres for sport.
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
1) Find Steed says the mount can be summoned, but doesn't specify anything about gear being carried. I assume anything you put on the mount goes into the same pocket dimension (saddle, barding, etc...) - We have my mount appear with the saddle ready for battle at a moments notice. When it dies or is dismissed it returns to Mount Celestia dropping anything it didn't arrive with.
2) Paladins don't have Handle Animal on their skill list, so unless you get it from you background a Paladin is unlikely to pass any difficult ride checks. It has an intelligence of 6 and communicates telepathically with you. In that sense they become a team that moves as one and works in unison. Also it has come to serve you so there shouldn't need to be any checks.
3) Has anyone actually used a mount and had it be successful. The "average" mastiff has an AC: 12 and 5 HP. Any Goblin can shoot your mount out from under you! DnD is about fun. Why not have the Mastiff with the stats of the Warhorse??? But of course enemies can attack your steed making you lose your speed and manoeuvrability. That is unless you go the Mounted Combatant.
3a) The Mounted Combat Feat does let you force the enemy to attack you instead of the mount, which should help a lot and it gives the mount Evasion, but it still only has a Dex mod of +2! (it will be a little better if you're a Paladin and high enough level to give it your CHA bonus). I have taken my mounted combatant steed (and then Greater Steed) into many battles and unfortunately AOE is how it dies. I can cast cure wounds on myself and give it to my steed too but sometimes it's a case of smite and say goodbye until I can summon him the next day. There are also times when I couldn't take my steed into places (such as Balders Gate) which negates the benefits of the feat. I'm not a min-maxer though, so these times just make me miss my steed even more and feel stronger when I return to him. I can say though that they will remain for much longer if you have the feat and the speed and manoeuvrability (dash and disengage) is so useful as a paladin.
I kinda have the "mastiff with the stats of the warhorse". i am a tortle so RAW couldn't ride a mastiff, but liked the idea of it, so worked with my DM to create a warhorse stats with mastiff attack and skin homebrew celestial mount for myself. regarding equipment, i don't use any saddle or feed the mount due to it being magical and i am telepathically linked to it, so it has no equipment on it that is not "on me" in the future if i decide on any extra like saddle bags then i understand that i will need to carry them if the mount disappears.
Find Steed is a variation of the utility spell, the same way Find Familiar is. If you are expecting to get another combatant on the field to fight next to you then that is a frustrating thing. I think they are better served in assistant roles for covering terrain, carrying capacity, scouting, general mobility out of combat. In combat, AOE will burn all of them to the ground. The mounted combat feat is their to give you an opportunity to have a mount survive combat long enough as a mobility extension to fill that player need, but the mount itself is still not going to contribute much. I used the fact the spell can summon a mastiff to debate that summoning a medium sized mount is still viable as a medium creature and parley a useful CR 1/2 companion animal, akin to what a ranger should get, instead of a CR 1/2 warhorse. All of these options soon become way better as a utility spell benefit: ape, black bear, giant wasp, reef shark. Heck an ape would have better combat effectiveness because it can throw rocks and climb. That list feels way cooler than a large mount to ride: crocodile, giant goat, warhorse, and giant seahorse.
Personally, I would summon the warhorse for overland movement just in case something happened, but in cities or forests where the warhorse would falter, I would summon an ape (general utility and throwing), a giant wasp (flying scout), or black bear (ADV scent) over a riding beast. And lets face it, would you rather look like every other knight with their horse in the stable or tied to a tree, or walking around with a bear grumbling at your side, giant wasp hovering over your head, or an ape brooding next to you?
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
As I mentioned in another thread, Tasha's rules for Warrior Sidekicks have made the find steed spell awesome! A non-mythic mount that doesn't die when a monster sneezes on it, scaling with the player and gaining its own useful combat abilities.
Numfar! Do the dance of joy!
Frankly, my dear, I'd rather be listening to Rehn Stillnight.
It's an okay spell. Because it's summoned you don't necessarily have to worry about feeding it, but it can't grow in power. Or can it? The now-official rules for sidekicks may help with that. As I understand it, the new rules only care about the CR of the creature and/or whether it knows a language. Which means it might also work with summoned familiars.