Once a spell is cast, its effects aren't limited by its range, unless the spell's description says otherwise.
It doesn't give a maximum distance limit in the text of Spiritual Weapon. You can only cast it out to 60 feet, but there is nothing saying you have to stay within that range when moving it by 20 feet a turn.
But you're correct on how you flavor the spell not changing the mechanics. If you make the Spiritual Weapon a spectral winged pig with a top hat and a cane it's still still just a 1d8 + wisdom attack with 5 foot range.
Another note sneakboi69: You don't move the weapon 20 feet as the initial casting of the spell. The first attack will be at most 60 feet away with the potential to get 20 feet further out every turn.
Argh. I should have thought of that. Thanks heironimous.
Though I would say, while it’s good for range, you don’t really want to be at range. Smite only works with a melee attack, and most of the time you’re probably better off using the spell slot for that.
no problem Xalthu. Honestly, I wasn't sure on the rule until you posted and I looked it up.
And for sure, the Paladin wants to get all up in there and mix it in melee. We've been discussing Blessed Warrior Cantrips + Spiritual Weapon as a solid ranged backup plan for them. I'm all about the tactical options.
Yup Conquest Paladins need a plan B for the times when cannot reach their foes since they do not have a reliable gap closer like Misty Step (unless they take a feat or have a once a day racial ability). If an enemy is pelting them with arrows from a wall. They need to use Spiritual Weapon or ranged cantrips from Blessed Warrior, otherwise they need to be lvl 13 to cast Find Greater Steed for a winged mount in order to engage said enemy.
Yeah, this is why Blessed Warrior appeals to me so much, it makes the Paladin a lot stronger than I thought it would be, and you don't have to wait for Greater Steed! (which still looks like an amazing spell to have!) Question, what steed should I always pick if I cast this spell?
Yeah, this is why Blessed Warrior appeals to me so much, it makes the Paladin a lot stronger than I thought it would be, and you don't have to wait for Greater Steed! (which still looks like an amazing spell to have!) Question, what steed should I always pick if I cast this spell?
Whatever looks the least weird being ridden by a Minotaur lol
The Griffon is a deadlier combatant but the Pegasus is slightly faster in the air and can understand multiple languages. I don't generally see the spell being talked about other than in context of getting a flying mount since flight is just so good. I believe Griffon is considered the better one, but don't quote me on that. The Pegasus will absolutely get the job done and is very thematic if you want to be a virtuous warrior. Personally, I've always wanted the chance to play with a DM that will handwave in the Manticore as an option because I think that would make for an incredibly badass character but alas I've never played a character with the spell.
Edit: Also what ThelonelyMagi said. LOL. Yeah I'm having a hard time picturing the Minotaur on anything but a rhinocerous or some other bulky boi
Then I'll probably alternate between both mounts, Griffon in general and Pegasus for necessary flight combat, and to prove my allegiance to divine power.
Yeah, it's hard to imagine a Minotaur mounting either a Griffin or a Pegasus, but a rhino seems like the least confusing option. Imagine a combo attack with both the Rhino and the Minotaur's horns, that would be pretty cool to watch, to be honest.
When I reach second level, what Smite Spell should I pick? Thunderous and Wrathful seem really good on their own, but Thunderous deals extra damage and knocks the enemy prone, while Wrathful can inflict fear, the primary component of the Conquest Paladin.
Then I'll probably alternate between both mounts, Griffon in general and Pegasus for necessary flight combat, and to prove my allegiance to divine power.
Yeah, it's hard to imagine a Minotaur mounting either a Griffin or a Pegasus, but a rhino seems like the least confusing option. Imagine a combo attack with both the Rhino and the Minotaur's horns, that would be pretty cool to watch, to be honest.
When I reach second level, what Smite Spell should I pick? Thunderous and Wrathful seem really good on their own, but Thunderous deals extra damage and knocks the enemy prone, while Wrathful can inflict fear, the primary component of the Conquest Paladin.
Do not get either. They both do less initial damage than your normal Divine Smite, they require concentration so if you miss your attack your enemies can potentially damage you and make you drop concentration. You are better off just holding your spell slots until you crit before dropping a normal Divine Smite. While its true you can combine them with a Divine Smite, a Paladin simply does not have the spell slots at early lvls for that strategy.
So I should wait until later levels where I can have more spell slots? Okay, got it. What progression of feats and ASIs should I get at levels where they're available. I know I'm definitely getting PAM, to be honest, but I'm not sure when I should get it.
Should I also go for Magic Initiate, just for Booming Blade?, or stay with ASIs for the other levels? Also, thank you and all the other people who've helped me out! :)
Do not go for Booming Blade, it is not really. worth it. Most of the time the enemy you hit will not move so chances are you are not seeing much extra damage until lvl 5 which is when you get extra attack. Swinging twice is better than 1 swing with Booming Blade as you could potentially drop 2 Divine Smites to finish the enemy. Things do not look up at lvl 11 either because that is when you get Improved Divine Smite which makes every hit you land deal an additional 1d8 radiant damage, so again more swings means more damage. Even when it scales again at lvl 17 you are still better off doing 2 swings because of the potential of dropping 2 high lvl Divine Smites.
Now you could argue your fear effects can trigger the extra Booming Blade and I have heard good arguments both for and against it and ultimately its a decision for your DM. But and here it's a BIG but, at lvl 7 your aura freezes frightened enemies in place so they can't move to trigger Booming Blade damage even if your DM allows it.
Oh, I see. SO only PAM as a feat, then ASIs the rest of the way. Okay, got it. Final question, what's a good starting spell selection at 2nd level where I can learn spell-casting? I was planning to go for one of the Smites, but since you advised me to wait until higher levels, I'm not sure what I should pick for my last spell. Compelled Duel and Shield of Faith are definitely good options that I'm planning to use.
PAM at 4 and then focus on your stats. I suggest a more even split of ability improvements, getting strength and charisma to 18 instead of focusing on getting one stat to 20 before touching the rest.
The conquest paladin cares too much about both strength and charisma to really be able to spare room for more than PAM, so I'd leave magic initiate out of it. The only way you would be able to use Booming Blade (since extra attack is in direct opposition) is to build for PAM and War Caster but that wouldn't come together until level 12 and would have no room for improving stats.
If you want a damage boosting spell option I suggest Divine Favor. I agree the smite spells are redundant, but Divine Favor can represent a nice amount of extra damage over time. It also plays nicer with PAM's bonus action attack than Hex or Hunter's Mark since you don't need to spend a bonus action to move it to the next target.
But honestly, I think you're good on damage as a PAM Paladin. I like Bless and Command a lot. Bless is just a great support buff spell to pass around and command can be a lot of fun and very effective.
Ooh, I just looked at Command and it looks really good compared to Compelled Duel, I'll get that on 3rd level probably, they're both too good to pass up. Although, Bless is really good, idk if I should replace that with Shield of Faith. Probably not, since the spellcasters in my party are two wizards and one druid, and they don't have a great AC.
Thank you, Magi, Xalthu, and Zot for helping me out! Now I have confidence in smiting the evil and making it fear me >:)
You know you can change your prepared spells at the end of a long rest. You don’t have to wait for anything. There’s plenty of room to play around. If you take something and it turns out that it doesn’t work in practice, swap it next time you rest. But the vast majority of the time, you’ll be using your slots for smiting and not casting, anyway.
Personally not a big fan of compelled duel since it means the rest of the party can’t attack the target. And it uses your concentration.
And for another tick against booming blade, you can't use it at reach. Tasha’s errata’d range to “self 5 feet” so you can use it against adjacent enemies, but you can’t use it and take advantage of having a reach weapon
I usually keep a smite spell or two memorized in case the situation comes up. E.g. branding smite if your enemy can turn invisible, searing smite if they are fire vulnerable, but I don’t think I’ve ever actually cast one.
Oh, I forgot about preparing spells. I'm so used to playing casters like Bards and Sorcerers that I forget about the other spellcasters and how their lists work. My bad.
I'll use Compelled Duel if my party is low on health and I'm the only one that can actually fight, but that probably won't come up too much. I'll most likely have Bless, Shield of Faith, and Divine Favor as my go to until later levels, where I can afford to use slots for smites.
That sucks that you can't use it with Reach weapons, but like it was said earlier, I'll only ever need PAM and then the rest of the levels can be ASIs for STR and CHA.
I think my first smite will be Thunderous because it knocks enemies prone, and I can synergize that with my FEAR AURA for advantage.Searing Smite sounds like the most situation, as a lot of monsters resist it, but it's good for those situations in which you do find a fire-vulnerable enemy.
Play around with a few options and see what you like. Thats what its all about in the end. The spells you take should be spells you like so that you have fun using them.
There is one other feat I would consider taking, and I would not be doing my job of helping you annoy your DM if I did not mention it and that feat is Sentinel. Simply put PAM + Sentinel + reach weapon makes a cheeseball of a character. The premise is this most enemies tend to use a normal 5 ft weapon, your 2H polearm has 10 ft movement, so you can take your swings at an enemy and then move back 5 ft without triggering any AOO (attack of opportunity). Now if the enemy wants to engage you then they would have to move forward 10 ft but after moving 5 ft they will trigger your PAM's AOO and if that hits that will trigger Sentinel and drop their speed to 0 for the rest of the turn meaning they can't reach you. Sentinel also has other annoying shit like triggering AOO even if they disengage and using your reaction to attack a target without 5ft if they attack somebody else.
Do note that the cheese factor will be countered by your DM after 1 or 2 sessions at most in the form of polearm of enemies wielding reach weapons and possibly more ranged combatants lol.
Yeah have some fun mixing and matching your spells. Use that luxury and try out anything that seems fun. Whatever doesn't stick you can replace. Prepared casting is so sweet.
PAM + Sentinel + reach weapon is in fact great. I'm not overly fond of it on this build though. Without the extra feat of Variant Human things won't be online until 8 and as a conquest paladin your strength and charisma are both screaming for attention.
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Xalthu:
On Range from the PHB
It doesn't give a maximum distance limit in the text of Spiritual Weapon. You can only cast it out to 60 feet, but there is nothing saying you have to stay within that range when moving it by 20 feet a turn.
But you're correct on how you flavor the spell not changing the mechanics. If you make the Spiritual Weapon a spectral winged pig with a top hat and a cane it's still still just a 1d8 + wisdom attack with 5 foot range.
Another note sneakboi69: You don't move the weapon 20 feet as the initial casting of the spell. The first attack will be at most 60 feet away with the potential to get 20 feet further out every turn.
Argh. I should have thought of that. Thanks heironimous.
Though I would say, while it’s good for range, you don’t really want to be at range. Smite only works with a melee attack, and most of the time you’re probably better off using the spell slot for that.
no problem Xalthu. Honestly, I wasn't sure on the rule until you posted and I looked it up.
And for sure, the Paladin wants to get all up in there and mix it in melee. We've been discussing Blessed Warrior Cantrips + Spiritual Weapon as a solid ranged backup plan for them. I'm all about the tactical options.
Yup Conquest Paladins need a plan B for the times when cannot reach their foes since they do not have a reliable gap closer like Misty Step (unless they take a feat or have a once a day racial ability). If an enemy is pelting them with arrows from a wall. They need to use Spiritual Weapon or ranged cantrips from Blessed Warrior, otherwise they need to be lvl 13 to cast Find Greater Steed for a winged mount in order to engage said enemy.
Yeah, this is why Blessed Warrior appeals to me so much, it makes the Paladin a lot stronger than I thought it would be, and you don't have to wait for Greater Steed! (which still looks like an amazing spell to have!) Question, what steed should I always pick if I cast this spell?
Whatever looks the least weird being ridden by a Minotaur lol
The Griffon is a deadlier combatant but the Pegasus is slightly faster in the air and can understand multiple languages. I don't generally see the spell being talked about other than in context of getting a flying mount since flight is just so good. I believe Griffon is considered the better one, but don't quote me on that. The Pegasus will absolutely get the job done and is very thematic if you want to be a virtuous warrior. Personally, I've always wanted the chance to play with a DM that will handwave in the Manticore as an option because I think that would make for an incredibly badass character but alas I've never played a character with the spell.
Edit: Also what ThelonelyMagi said. LOL. Yeah I'm having a hard time picturing the Minotaur on anything but a rhinocerous or some other bulky boi
Then I'll probably alternate between both mounts, Griffon in general and Pegasus for necessary flight combat, and to prove my allegiance to divine power.
Yeah, it's hard to imagine a Minotaur mounting either a Griffin or a Pegasus, but a rhino seems like the least confusing option. Imagine a combo attack with both the Rhino and the Minotaur's horns, that would be pretty cool to watch, to be honest.
When I reach second level, what Smite Spell should I pick? Thunderous and Wrathful seem really good on their own, but Thunderous deals extra damage and knocks the enemy prone, while Wrathful can inflict fear, the primary component of the Conquest Paladin.
Do not get either. They both do less initial damage than your normal Divine Smite, they require concentration so if you miss your attack your enemies can potentially damage you and make you drop concentration. You are better off just holding your spell slots until you crit before dropping a normal Divine Smite. While its true you can combine them with a Divine Smite, a Paladin simply does not have the spell slots at early lvls for that strategy.
So I should wait until later levels where I can have more spell slots? Okay, got it. What progression of feats and ASIs should I get at levels where they're available. I know I'm definitely getting PAM, to be honest, but I'm not sure when I should get it.
Get PAM at lvl 4, its your best friend. Even better than the rhino you plan on riding.
Should I also go for Magic Initiate, just for Booming Blade?, or stay with ASIs for the other levels? Also, thank you and all the other people who've helped me out! :)
Do not go for Booming Blade, it is not really. worth it. Most of the time the enemy you hit will not move so chances are you are not seeing much extra damage until lvl 5 which is when you get extra attack. Swinging twice is better than 1 swing with Booming Blade as you could potentially drop 2 Divine Smites to finish the enemy. Things do not look up at lvl 11 either because that is when you get Improved Divine Smite which makes every hit you land deal an additional 1d8 radiant damage, so again more swings means more damage. Even when it scales again at lvl 17 you are still better off doing 2 swings because of the potential of dropping 2 high lvl Divine Smites.
Now you could argue your fear effects can trigger the extra Booming Blade and I have heard good arguments both for and against it and ultimately its a decision for your DM. But and here it's a BIG but, at lvl 7 your aura freezes frightened enemies in place so they can't move to trigger Booming Blade damage even if your DM allows it.
Oh, I see. SO only PAM as a feat, then ASIs the rest of the way. Okay, got it. Final question, what's a good starting spell selection at 2nd level where I can learn spell-casting? I was planning to go for one of the Smites, but since you advised me to wait until higher levels, I'm not sure what I should pick for my last spell. Compelled Duel and Shield of Faith are definitely good options that I'm planning to use.
I agree with everything ThelonelyMagi has said.
PAM at 4 and then focus on your stats. I suggest a more even split of ability improvements, getting strength and charisma to 18 instead of focusing on getting one stat to 20 before touching the rest.
The conquest paladin cares too much about both strength and charisma to really be able to spare room for more than PAM, so I'd leave magic initiate out of it. The only way you would be able to use Booming Blade (since extra attack is in direct opposition) is to build for PAM and War Caster but that wouldn't come together until level 12 and would have no room for improving stats.
If you want a damage boosting spell option I suggest Divine Favor. I agree the smite spells are redundant, but Divine Favor can represent a nice amount of extra damage over time. It also plays nicer with PAM's bonus action attack than Hex or Hunter's Mark since you don't need to spend a bonus action to move it to the next target.
But honestly, I think you're good on damage as a PAM Paladin. I like Bless and Command a lot. Bless is just a great support buff spell to pass around and command can be a lot of fun and very effective.
Ooh, I just looked at Command and it looks really good compared to Compelled Duel, I'll get that on 3rd level probably, they're both too good to pass up. Although, Bless is really good, idk if I should replace that with Shield of Faith. Probably not, since the spellcasters in my party are two wizards and one druid, and they don't have a great AC.
Thank you, Magi, Xalthu, and Zot for helping me out! Now I have confidence in smiting the evil and making it fear me >:)
You know you can change your prepared spells at the end of a long rest. You don’t have to wait for anything. There’s plenty of room to play around. If you take something and it turns out that it doesn’t work in practice, swap it next time you rest. But the vast majority of the time, you’ll be using your slots for smiting and not casting, anyway.
Personally not a big fan of compelled duel since it means the rest of the party can’t attack the target. And it uses your concentration.
And for another tick against booming blade, you can't use it at reach. Tasha’s errata’d range to “self 5 feet” so you can use it against adjacent enemies, but you can’t use it and take advantage of having a reach weapon
I usually keep a smite spell or two memorized in case the situation comes up. E.g. branding smite if your enemy can turn invisible, searing smite if they are fire vulnerable, but I don’t think I’ve ever actually cast one.
Oh, I forgot about preparing spells. I'm so used to playing casters like Bards and Sorcerers that I forget about the other spellcasters and how their lists work. My bad.
I'll use Compelled Duel if my party is low on health and I'm the only one that can actually fight, but that probably won't come up too much. I'll most likely have Bless, Shield of Faith, and Divine Favor as my go to until later levels, where I can afford to use slots for smites.
That sucks that you can't use it with Reach weapons, but like it was said earlier, I'll only ever need PAM and then the rest of the levels can be ASIs for STR and CHA.
I think my first smite will be Thunderous because it knocks enemies prone, and I can synergize that with my FEAR AURA for advantage. Searing Smite sounds like the most situation, as a lot of monsters resist it, but it's good for those situations in which you do find a fire-vulnerable enemy.
Play around with a few options and see what you like. Thats what its all about in the end. The spells you take should be spells you like so that you have fun using them.
There is one other feat I would consider taking, and I would not be doing my job of helping you annoy your DM if I did not mention it and that feat is Sentinel. Simply put PAM + Sentinel + reach weapon makes a cheeseball of a character. The premise is this most enemies tend to use a normal 5 ft weapon, your 2H polearm has 10 ft movement, so you can take your swings at an enemy and then move back 5 ft without triggering any AOO (attack of opportunity). Now if the enemy wants to engage you then they would have to move forward 10 ft but after moving 5 ft they will trigger your PAM's AOO and if that hits that will trigger Sentinel and drop their speed to 0 for the rest of the turn meaning they can't reach you. Sentinel also has other annoying shit like triggering AOO even if they disengage and using your reaction to attack a target without 5ft if they attack somebody else.
Do note that the cheese factor will be countered by your DM after 1 or 2 sessions at most in the form of polearm of enemies wielding reach weapons and possibly more ranged combatants lol.
Yeah have some fun mixing and matching your spells. Use that luxury and try out anything that seems fun. Whatever doesn't stick you can replace. Prepared casting is so sweet.
PAM + Sentinel + reach weapon is in fact great. I'm not overly fond of it on this build though. Without the extra feat of Variant Human things won't be online until 8 and as a conquest paladin your strength and charisma are both screaming for attention.