My current Rangers are level 8 and freshly level 9, but both my campaigns are on hiatus, so I haven't had the opportunity to really get into the trenches with them.
I remember my past Rangers being a ton of fun at those levels tho.
Plural? :o Are you playing different subclasses? I remember you mentioning having a Horizon Walker.
I mean, I've played every Ranger subclass that has been officially released at least once. And I've variously run the gamut of levels 1 - 20 with them.
Currently, I'm playing in four active campaigns and DMing a fifth. I'm playing a Hexblade, a Paladin (Devotion), a Horizon Walker, and a Fey Wanderer at the moment. Really itching to try out the Drakewarden. It's the only Ranger I've yet to use.
Geeez, you're definitely getting your D&D fix in! xD I have to say I'm a bit jealous. For the sake of relating it back to topic, are you using deft explorer and favored foe on both? lol
Geeez, you're definitely getting your D&D fix in! xD I have to say I'm a bit jealous. For the sake of relating it back to topic, are you using deft explorer and favored foe on both? lol
Most of my Rangers, I played before Tasha's (hell, before even the CFV UA came out.) I'd only ever played PHB Rangers up until Tasha's. Didn't care for the Spell-Less Ranger; actively disliked Revised. Of my two currently active Rangers, my Horizon Walker kept Favored Enemy but took Deft Explorer, while my Fey Wanderer kept both Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer.
Yeah. I'm very aware that I play way more dnd then the average person. This past year has left me with more time on my hands than I care for, so DnD has filled the void pretty well. That, said, I'm actually looking to cut back because even I can acknowledge that all this dnd isn't necessarily the healthiest thing in the world. 😅
Prior to this past year, I typically averaged around 1 campaign every year or so. Though there were times when I double-dipped. Only my Hunter and Monster Slayer ever got to level 20 tho.
Much as Conjure Animals is easily the best 3rd-level spell on the Ranger list, it's actually pretty low on my list of favorites. I much prefer Lightning Arrow, Nondetection, Plant Growth, Revivify, and the new Flame Stride.
Also, not enough people talk about the potentially insane combo between Nondetection and Pass Without Trace/Vanish to make you completely untraceable. Like, it may sound niche on the surface, but if the BBEG is spying on the party and cannot account for you (because they can't see you magically or track you non-magically,) they'll be ill-prepared to encounter you. Bonus points as this lets you practically waltz right through their evil lair and set up an ambush without getting noticed.
I know its a little late but wouldn't a creature with true sight still ignore Pass without a trace? I still think the only way to hide from such creatures is Hide in plain sight.
Much as Conjure Animals is easily the best 3rd-level spell on the Ranger list, it's actually pretty low on my list of favorites. I much prefer Lightning Arrow, Nondetection, Plant Growth, Revivify, and the new Flame Stride.
Also, not enough people talk about the potentially insane combo between Nondetection and Pass Without Trace/Vanish to make you completely untraceable. Like, it may sound niche on the surface, but if the BBEG is spying on the party and cannot account for you (because they can't see you magically or track you non-magically,) they'll be ill-prepared to encounter you. Bonus points as this lets you practically waltz right through their evil lair and set up an ambush without getting noticed.
I know its a little late but wouldn't a creature with true sight still ignore Pass without a trace? I still think the only way to hide from such creatures is Hide in plain sight.
Truesight would see through Pass without Trace by virtue of PwT not making you invisible or anything. All it does is bump your stealth and shield you from non-magical tracking.
Or were you referring to Nature's Veil?
At any rate, you're not going to find me arguing against Hide in Plain Sight. I'm a fan of the feature. I'm also a fan of Nature's Veil.
And yes, a creature with Truesight would be able to see through Nature's Veil and Pass without Trace. In those cases, you're outta luck. But there are relatively few creatures that have the Truesight sense.
If you're wondering about the True Seeing spell, however, Nondetection counters that. True Seeing is a Divination Spell, and Nondetection protects you from Divination Spells. Meaning if you had Nondetection cast on you and were currently invisible (Nature's Veil, Shadow Touched, Gloomstalker) a spell-caster with True Seeing still wouldn't be able to identify you.
Much as Conjure Animals is easily the best 3rd-level spell on the Ranger list, it's actually pretty low on my list of favorites. I much prefer Lightning Arrow, Nondetection, Plant Growth, Revivify, and the new Flame Stride.
Also, not enough people talk about the potentially insane combo between Nondetection and Pass Without Trace/Vanish to make you completely untraceable. Like, it may sound niche on the surface, but if the BBEG is spying on the party and cannot account for you (because they can't see you magically or track you non-magically,) they'll be ill-prepared to encounter you. Bonus points as this lets you practically waltz right through their evil lair and set up an ambush without getting noticed.
I know its a little late but wouldn't a creature with true sight still ignore Pass without a trace? I still think the only way to hide from such creatures is Hide in plain sight.
Truesight would see through Pass without Trace by virtue of PwT not making you invisible or anything. All it does is bump your stealth and shield you from non-magical tracking.
Or were you referring to Nature's Veil?
At any rate, you're not going to find me arguing against Hide in Plain Sight. I'm a fan of the feature. I'm also a fan of Nature's Veil.
And yes, a creature with Truesight would be able to see through Nature's Veil and Pass without Trace. In those cases, you're outta luck. But there are relatively few creatures that have the Truesight sense.
If you're wondering about the True Seeing spell, however, Nondetection counters that. True Seeing is a Divination Spell, and Nondetection protects you from Divination Spells. Meaning if you had Nondetection cast on you and were currently invisible (Nature's Veil, Shadow Touched, Gloomstalker) a spell-caster with True Seeing still wouldn't be able to identify you.
Vanish is a different ability from pass without trace and makes you untrackable by magic. Which is what the other post was pairing with Pass without trace.
The problem is actually that simply seeing somebody with true sight is not tracking.
Vanish makes you passively untrackable by non-magical means. It's essentially the secondary benefit of PwT as an always-on passive buff. That's why you need to combine it with Nondetetection.
But yes. Someone with Truesight that is just looking at the Ranger will be able to see them in spite of all this. That is correct.
Natural Explorer doubles your proficiency in wisdom and intelligence skills that you are proficient with when related to your favored terrain. It does not give you advantage on rolls. It does not help if you are not proficient in a skill. It does not help in straight wisdom and intelligence checks because those are not skills you are proficient with.
My ranger was proficient in athletics, intimidation (soldier background), and stealth. So Natural Explorer only helped with survival, investigation, and perception when related to certain terrains. If the Tasha's options were out back when I played the ranger, I would have preferred Deft Explorer.
I will say, this is why Rangers who choose Natural Explorer over Deft Explorer have good reason to look at the Skilled feat. Skill Expert is good too (it's a half-feat at that) and generally the superior choice. But for Natural Explorer Rangers, taking three additional proficiencies in Int/Wis via the Skilled feat amounts to three additional Expertises in their Favored Terrains.
Natural Explorer doubles your proficiency in wisdom and intelligence skills that you are proficient with when related to your favored terrain. It does not give you advantage on rolls. It does not help if you are not proficient in a skill. It does not help in straight wisdom and intelligence checks because those are not skills you are proficient with.
My ranger was proficient in athletics, intimidation (soldier background), and stealth. So Natural Explorer only helped with survival, investigation, and perception when related to certain terrains. If the Tasha's options were out back when I played the ranger, I would have preferred Deft Explorer.
There is also Tool proficiencies. Its less reliable but sometimes a dm will allow a tool when Puzzle solving or gathering information in place of a general check.
Side note: Favored enemy allows advantage even if not proficient in intelligence checks .
So much stuff in the game functions like the “expertise if related” mechanics of natural explorer. Tools, games, trinkets, instruments, adventuring gear, illusion magic, divination magic, enchantment magic, background features, languages, common magic items, and even ability checks and skills. Anyone that complains they can’t find ways to make natural explorer work is missing out on huge parts of the game, not just this one ranger ability. My $0.02.
So much stuff in the game functions like the “expertise if related” mechanics of natural explorer. Tools, games, trinkets, instruments, adventuring gear, illusion magic, divination magic, enchantment magic, background features, languages, common magic items, and even ability checks and skills. Anyone that complains they can’t find ways to make natural explorer work is missing out on huge parts of the game, not just this one ranger ability. My $0.02.
To quote frank from another thread: (His words not mine)
"
Arcana would be a strange one for sure. Just for a ranger alone. But it could be made, and I know many don't like this idea, about things and creatures that exist in the terrain. The underdark is a great example of this.
History is an easy one. In a real world way in which a tour guide or historian would know all about a civilization, battle or other historical event that took place in a region, a ranger would know all about the history, folklore, and fables (also possibly arcana) of a given large region.
Investigation is often underutilized in favor of perception, but they are very different. To gain the double proficiency when using investigation it would have to be related to a favored terrain. So I think of forests and investigating in a greenhouse, or for a secret door hidden by ivy or vines, or signs of a struggle from a animal from the forest. Perhaps mountains would make you keener at looking for clues in a cave system (given the stone types and such), or how a trap made to be hidden on a mountain trail doesn't fit in to the natural surroundings. Swamp could be looking through manuscripts about plants or creatures that live in those parts of the world, or when trying to ascertain the cause of a poison or disease.
Nature is also an easy one. Even in a city that is in an area of the favored terrain type a ranger can predict weather very well. Knowing information about any flora and fauna from the favored terrain like at fish market, herbalist shop, or picking out some pack animals. Gardening, making poisons, or plotting a route on a map through your favored terrain.
Religion is a tough one for sure, except there are several deities that are of the forest and feywild, so a ranger would literately be an expert in this. If there humanoid cultures that live in the terrain, coastal has many of these, as might swamps or mountains, a ranger might be very knowledgeable in these rituals and rites.
I'll be honest, for me animal handling is basically expertise in animal handling for a ranger. Fish, mammal, insect, reptile, bird, all beasts. If a ranger takes animal handling as a proficiency (they should), I give them expertise almost all the time unless it is an incredibly bizarre circumstance.
Insight is a tough one, but I can think of it working when dealing with fantastical creatures that are tightly tied with a given landscape. Thinking of treants and forests, merfolk and the coast, giants and the mountains, hags and the swamps.
Medicine plays a lot like nature in that poisons, diseases, and even the cause of wounds that are from elements or origins of a given terrain can be better treated via this skill. Also in the swamp, coast, or forest where plant life is nearby known to help with treat ailments (burns, wounds, stabilizing, poisons, etc.) a ranger can use this knowledge to their advantage.
Perception makes the most sense in the terrain, but if the thing you're trying to perceive is of or from the terrain the ranger would be better suited to paying attention to it the most. The sound of an animal, the smell of plant, animal, or other feature (swamps and coasts have smells that are distinct) would peak the ranger's senses. Noticing something out of sorts in a painting or tapestry of their terrain.
Survival also makes the most sense in the landscape. However, this is a mental skill, so plotting a route on a map, planning an attack on something in the terrain type, anticipating what will be needed to traverse a harsh landscape, or calculating the travel time and supplies needed for a group to go from point A to point B are all examples of using this skill before setting out from a village or city.
So much stuff in the game functions like the “expertise if related” mechanics of natural explorer. Tools, games, trinkets, instruments, adventuring gear, illusion magic, divination magic, enchantment magic, background features, languages, common magic items, and even ability checks and skills. Anyone that complains they can’t find ways to make natural explorer work is missing out on huge parts of the game, not just this one ranger ability. My $0.02.
I am not sure I take your meaning?
They require communication, trust, creativity, from and between both player and DM and enough understanding of the rules to massage and bend them within their by-design-limits to make them work in game. None of any of those have straightforward or even suggested use in game. They are merely a jumping off point.
So much stuff in the game functions like the “expertise if related” mechanics of natural explorer. Tools, games, trinkets, instruments, adventuring gear, illusion magic, divination magic, enchantment magic, background features, languages, common magic items, and even ability checks and skills. Anyone that complains they can’t find ways to make natural explorer work is missing out on huge parts of the game, not just this one ranger ability. My $0.02.
I am not sure I take your meaning?
They require communication, trust, creativity, from and between both player and DM and enough understanding of the rules to massage and bend them within their by-design-limits to make them work in game. None of any of those have straightforward or even suggested use in game. They are merely a jumping off point.
Ah, I get your meaning now. Yes, I am a huge proponent of using my tool proficiency where ever possible. Can you provide some examples of “expertise if related” both inside and outside your favored terrain?
So much stuff in the game functions like the “expertise if related” mechanics of natural explorer. Tools, games, trinkets, instruments, adventuring gear, illusion magic, divination magic, enchantment magic, background features, languages, common magic items, and even ability checks and skills. Anyone that complains they can’t find ways to make natural explorer work is missing out on huge parts of the game, not just this one ranger ability. My $0.02.
I am not sure I take your meaning?
They require communication, trust, creativity, from and between both player and DM and enough understanding of the rules to massage and bend them within their by-design-limits to make them work in game. None of any of those have straightforward or even suggested use in game. They are merely a jumping off point.
Ah, I get your meaning now. Yes, I am a huge proponent of using my tool proficiency where ever possible. Can you provide some examples of “expertise if related” both inside and outside your favored terrain?
see my post above...I asked the same question of him in another thread
Natural Explorer doubles your proficiency in wisdom and intelligence skills that you are proficient with when related to your favored terrain. It does not give you advantage on rolls. It does not help if you are not proficient in a skill. It does not help in straight wisdom and intelligence checks because those are not skills you are proficient with.
My ranger was proficient in athletics, intimidation (soldier background), and stealth. So Natural Explorer only helped with survival, investigation, and perception when related to certain terrains. If the Tasha's options were out back when I played the ranger, I would have preferred Deft Explorer.
There is also Tool proficiencies. Its less reliable but sometimes a dm will allow a tool when Puzzle solving or gathering information in place of a general check.
Side note: Favored enemy allows advantage even if not proficient in intelligence checks .
Not only do Tool Proficiencies potentially count as well. If one were to get into the tool proficiency materials from Xanathar's there can be clues and ideas for several ways to use them for Natural Explorer and a whole lot of very useful ways to use it outside of Natural Explorer. I really recommend that people take a look at it. There is all kinds of value to it. Like Brewers being able to make various kinds of healing potions if they just have a little time. At least a couple of basic ones a weak.
And that's just one exmple of general usage. But Natural Explorer specific could be that any ranger with Natural Explorer could percieve and understand the secret message in a painting with a forest and castle motif if Forest is a favored Terrain that many people aren't going to realize.
Xanathar's actually does a fair bit to enhance the exploration and environmental parts of the game that I recommend All DM's read a few times over and Players at least have a passing familiarity with.
Natural Explorer doubles your proficiency in wisdom and intelligence skills that you are proficient with when related to your favored terrain. It does not give you advantage on rolls. It does not help if you are not proficient in a skill. It does not help in straight wisdom and intelligence checks because those are not skills you are proficient with.
My ranger was proficient in athletics, intimidation (soldier background), and stealth. So Natural Explorer only helped with survival, investigation, and perception when related to certain terrains. If the Tasha's options were out back when I played the ranger, I would have preferred Deft Explorer.
There is also Tool proficiencies. Its less reliable but sometimes a dm will allow a tool when Puzzle solving or gathering information in place of a general check.
Side note: Favored enemy allows advantage even if not proficient in intelligence checks .
Not only do Tool Proficiencies potentially count as well. If one were to get into the tool proficiency materials from Xanathar's there can be clues and ideas for several ways to use them for Natural Explorer and a whole lot of very useful ways to use it outside of Natural Explorer. I really recommend that people take a look at it. There is all kinds of value to it. Like Brewers being able to make various kinds of healing potions if they just have a little time. At least a couple of basic ones a weak.
And that's just one exmple of general usage. But Natural Explorer specific could be that any ranger with Natural Explorer could percieve and understand the secret message in a painting with a forest and castle motif if Forest is a favored Terrain that many people aren't going to realize.
Xanathar's actually does a fair bit to enhance the exploration and environmental parts of the game that I recommend All DM's read a few times over and Players at least have a passing familiarity with.
I am sorry but claiming "with Natural Explorer [you] could percieve and understand the secret message in a painting with a forest and castle motif if Forest is a favored Terrain" is a ludicrous claim. Also saying "there can be clues and ideas for several ways to use [tools] for Natural Explorer" makes no sense. How are you connecting tools to NE?
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I mean, I've played every Ranger subclass that has been officially released at least once. And I've variously run the gamut of levels 1 - 20 with them.
Currently, I'm playing in four active campaigns and DMing a fifth. I'm playing a Hexblade, a Paladin (Devotion), a Horizon Walker, and a Fey Wanderer at the moment. Really itching to try out the Drakewarden. It's the only Ranger I've yet to use.
Geeez, you're definitely getting your D&D fix in! xD I have to say I'm a bit jealous.
For the sake of relating it back to topic, are you using deft explorer and favored foe on both? lol
Most of my Rangers, I played before Tasha's (hell, before even the CFV UA came out.) I'd only ever played PHB Rangers up until Tasha's. Didn't care for the Spell-Less Ranger; actively disliked Revised. Of my two currently active Rangers, my Horizon Walker kept Favored Enemy but took Deft Explorer, while my Fey Wanderer kept both Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer.
Man thats a lot of DND in a very short time....feels like that is not the average experience for sure.
Good on you for finding the time but rarely do people actually get that far or play that often so your perspective is definitely unique.
Yeah. I'm very aware that I play way more dnd then the average person. This past year has left me with more time on my hands than I care for, so DnD has filled the void pretty well. That, said, I'm actually looking to cut back because even I can acknowledge that all this dnd isn't necessarily the healthiest thing in the world. 😅
Prior to this past year, I typically averaged around 1 campaign every year or so. Though there were times when I double-dipped. Only my Hunter and Monster Slayer ever got to level 20 tho.
I know its a little late but wouldn't a creature with true sight still ignore Pass without a trace? I still think the only way to hide from such creatures is Hide in plain sight.
Truesight would see through Pass without Trace by virtue of PwT not making you invisible or anything. All it does is bump your stealth and shield you from non-magical tracking.
Or were you referring to Nature's Veil?
At any rate, you're not going to find me arguing against Hide in Plain Sight. I'm a fan of the feature. I'm also a fan of Nature's Veil.
And yes, a creature with Truesight would be able to see through Nature's Veil and Pass without Trace. In those cases, you're outta luck. But there are relatively few creatures that have the Truesight sense.
If you're wondering about the True Seeing spell, however, Nondetection counters that. True Seeing is a Divination Spell, and Nondetection protects you from Divination Spells. Meaning if you had Nondetection cast on you and were currently invisible (Nature's Veil, Shadow Touched, Gloomstalker) a spell-caster with True Seeing still wouldn't be able to identify you.
Vanish is a different ability from pass without trace and makes you untrackable by magic. Which is what the other post was pairing with Pass without trace.
The problem is actually that simply seeing somebody with true sight is not tracking.
Vanish makes you passively untrackable by non-magical means. It's essentially the secondary benefit of PwT as an always-on passive buff. That's why you need to combine it with Nondetetection.
But yes. Someone with Truesight that is just looking at the Ranger will be able to see them in spite of all this. That is correct.
Natural Explorer doubles your proficiency in wisdom and intelligence skills that you are proficient with when related to your favored terrain. It does not give you advantage on rolls. It does not help if you are not proficient in a skill. It does not help in straight wisdom and intelligence checks because those are not skills you are proficient with.
My ranger was proficient in athletics, intimidation (soldier background), and stealth. So Natural Explorer only helped with survival, investigation, and perception when related to certain terrains. If the Tasha's options were out back when I played the ranger, I would have preferred Deft Explorer.
I will say, this is why Rangers who choose Natural Explorer over Deft Explorer have good reason to look at the Skilled feat. Skill Expert is good too (it's a half-feat at that) and generally the superior choice. But for Natural Explorer Rangers, taking three additional proficiencies in Int/Wis via the Skilled feat amounts to three additional Expertises in their Favored Terrains.
There is also Tool proficiencies. Its less reliable but sometimes a dm will allow a tool when Puzzle solving or gathering information in place of a general check.
Side note: Favored enemy allows advantage even if not proficient in intelligence checks .
So much stuff in the game functions like the “expertise if related” mechanics of natural explorer. Tools, games, trinkets, instruments, adventuring gear, illusion magic, divination magic, enchantment magic, background features, languages, common magic items, and even ability checks and skills. Anyone that complains they can’t find ways to make natural explorer work is missing out on huge parts of the game, not just this one ranger ability. My $0.02.
I am not sure I take your meaning?
To quote frank from another thread: (His words not mine)
"
Arcana would be a strange one for sure. Just for a ranger alone. But it could be made, and I know many don't like this idea, about things and creatures that exist in the terrain. The underdark is a great example of this.
History is an easy one. In a real world way in which a tour guide or historian would know all about a civilization, battle or other historical event that took place in a region, a ranger would know all about the history, folklore, and fables (also possibly arcana) of a given large region.
Investigation is often underutilized in favor of perception, but they are very different. To gain the double proficiency when using investigation it would have to be related to a favored terrain. So I think of forests and investigating in a greenhouse, or for a secret door hidden by ivy or vines, or signs of a struggle from a animal from the forest. Perhaps mountains would make you keener at looking for clues in a cave system (given the stone types and such), or how a trap made to be hidden on a mountain trail doesn't fit in to the natural surroundings. Swamp could be looking through manuscripts about plants or creatures that live in those parts of the world, or when trying to ascertain the cause of a poison or disease.
Nature is also an easy one. Even in a city that is in an area of the favored terrain type a ranger can predict weather very well. Knowing information about any flora and fauna from the favored terrain like at fish market, herbalist shop, or picking out some pack animals. Gardening, making poisons, or plotting a route on a map through your favored terrain.
Religion is a tough one for sure, except there are several deities that are of the forest and feywild, so a ranger would literately be an expert in this. If there humanoid cultures that live in the terrain, coastal has many of these, as might swamps or mountains, a ranger might be very knowledgeable in these rituals and rites.
I'll be honest, for me animal handling is basically expertise in animal handling for a ranger. Fish, mammal, insect, reptile, bird, all beasts. If a ranger takes animal handling as a proficiency (they should), I give them expertise almost all the time unless it is an incredibly bizarre circumstance.
Insight is a tough one, but I can think of it working when dealing with fantastical creatures that are tightly tied with a given landscape. Thinking of treants and forests, merfolk and the coast, giants and the mountains, hags and the swamps.
Medicine plays a lot like nature in that poisons, diseases, and even the cause of wounds that are from elements or origins of a given terrain can be better treated via this skill. Also in the swamp, coast, or forest where plant life is nearby known to help with treat ailments (burns, wounds, stabilizing, poisons, etc.) a ranger can use this knowledge to their advantage.
Perception makes the most sense in the terrain, but if the thing you're trying to perceive is of or from the terrain the ranger would be better suited to paying attention to it the most. The sound of an animal, the smell of plant, animal, or other feature (swamps and coasts have smells that are distinct) would peak the ranger's senses. Noticing something out of sorts in a painting or tapestry of their terrain.
Survival also makes the most sense in the landscape. However, this is a mental skill, so plotting a route on a map, planning an attack on something in the terrain type, anticipating what will be needed to traverse a harsh landscape, or calculating the travel time and supplies needed for a group to go from point A to point B are all examples of using this skill before setting out from a village or city.
"
They require communication, trust, creativity, from and between both player and DM and enough understanding of the rules to massage and bend them within their by-design-limits to make them work in game. None of any of those have straightforward or even suggested use in game. They are merely a jumping off point.
Ah, I get your meaning now. Yes, I am a huge proponent of using my tool proficiency where ever possible. Can you provide some examples of “expertise if related” both inside and outside your favored terrain?
see my post above...I asked the same question of him in another thread
Not only do Tool Proficiencies potentially count as well. If one were to get into the tool proficiency materials from Xanathar's there can be clues and ideas for several ways to use them for Natural Explorer and a whole lot of very useful ways to use it outside of Natural Explorer. I really recommend that people take a look at it. There is all kinds of value to it. Like Brewers being able to make various kinds of healing potions if they just have a little time. At least a couple of basic ones a weak.
And that's just one exmple of general usage. But Natural Explorer specific could be that any ranger with Natural Explorer could percieve and understand the secret message in a painting with a forest and castle motif if Forest is a favored Terrain that many people aren't going to realize.
Xanathar's actually does a fair bit to enhance the exploration and environmental parts of the game that I recommend All DM's read a few times over and Players at least have a passing familiarity with.
I am sorry but claiming "with Natural Explorer [you] could percieve and understand the secret message in a painting with a forest and castle motif if Forest is a favored Terrain" is a ludicrous claim. Also saying "there can be clues and ideas for several ways to use [tools] for Natural Explorer" makes no sense. How are you connecting tools to NE?