I have a question about the charge ability of the primal companion, for Tasha's beastmaster ranger. The ability states: Charge. If the beast moves at least 20 feet straight toward a target and then hits it with a maul attack on the same turn, the target takes an extra 1d6 slashing damage. If the target is a creature, it must succeed on a Strength saving throw against your spell save DC or be knocked prone.
If I am reading this right, the my medium size companion, can knock prone, a creature of ANY size, provided that creatures fails the save? That means my medium size companion, can knock prone a gargantuan creature ?
By taking tasha's you trade out alot of potential utilities. So knocking any size creature prone is not unreasonable. Especially since a there is an associated immunity if it gets excessive. Beasts like goats or bulls should be better at knocking creatures prone than most others.
Keep in mind these are not ordinary beasts, they're special primal creatures so are more like spirits or legendary creatures or whatever. Could it be potentially ridiculous? Maybe, but I guess it depends where it hits; many gargantuan creatures still have ankles that can buckle if you hit them just right and so-on. Plus they're very likely to have high Strength and maybe also legendary resistances, so getting them to fail the save won't be that easy.
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Yes you are in fact reading this right, I mean think about it. Look at gargantuan creatures stat blocks. What are their strength saves? What is your beasts save DC, do you see that it is pretty much impossible to fail that save if the creature is gargantuan.
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Funny quote from campaign, "The only thing you want to do is kill everything huh?"
Yeah, that is not limited by the target's size. Jeremy Crawford even mentioned that specific question on a Sage Advice video some time back, at the time talking about the Panther's ability to mosty the same effect.
You can think of it as the animal going to a weak spot (i.e. neck) and trying to twist them into submission like a great cat pouncing. It's not so much a size or weight comparison, but the way they do it. That said, it's hard to imagine that being effective against a whole Tarrasque, but I guess the Strength save is going to offset that chance a bit (even though Wis-build Rangers can get that DC on the low 20s).
The question ties in with the Open Hand Monk's ability to knock a target prone, only the Monk ability is tied to a Dex save and on bigger enemies, that means the Monk will likely have a better chance of success. As a few have said, it's supposed to indicate a physics situation, where hitting something RIGHT there, with THIS amount of force, will knock it over. The saves scaling with enemy size and challenge rating are showing how it's more difficult, and there are less ways to do so to bigger, stronger things.
I don't see it as overpowered or anything, because high save bonuses will make it very rare that this feature is successful on anything bigger than Large sized. On those odd occasions it does land, it's reason to celebrate and have a memorable "party win" moment when tactics worked and paid off. That's how both my Stunning Strike and knocking prone (or back if I prefer) are on my Monk. Usually enemies make the save, but when they fail it's a lot of fun.
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I like to look at "cost of succeeding". The beast has more requirements than just a shove action.
Specific subclass >specific beast choice> specific positioning and movement>failed save>beat immunities.
The cost is alot so the beastmaster should get alot in return. Different choices could get that same ranger poison and blindsight or one of the "superior" ranger subclasses like gloomstalker or swarmkeeper.(note I don't believe they are but some optimizers do)
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Hi all,
I have a question about the charge ability of the primal companion, for Tasha's beastmaster ranger.
The ability states:
Charge.
If the beast moves at least 20 feet straight toward a target and then hits it with a maul attack on the same turn, the target takes an extra 1d6 slashing damage. If the target is a creature, it must succeed on a Strength saving throw against your spell save DC or be knocked prone.
If I am reading this right, the my medium size companion, can knock prone, a creature of ANY size, provided that creatures fails the save?
That means my medium size companion, can knock prone a gargantuan creature ?
Does that seems logical for anyone ?
By taking tasha's you trade out alot of potential utilities. So knocking any size creature prone is not unreasonable. Especially since a there is an associated immunity if it gets excessive. Beasts like goats or bulls should be better at knocking creatures prone than most others.
I think it fits fine.
Keep in mind these are not ordinary beasts, they're special primal creatures so are more like spirits or legendary creatures or whatever. Could it be potentially ridiculous? Maybe, but I guess it depends where it hits; many gargantuan creatures still have ankles that can buckle if you hit them just right and so-on. Plus they're very likely to have high Strength and maybe also legendary resistances, so getting them to fail the save won't be that easy.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Yes you are in fact reading this right, I mean think about it. Look at gargantuan creatures stat blocks. What are their strength saves? What is your beasts save DC, do you see that it is pretty much impossible to fail that save if the creature is gargantuan.
Funny quote from campaign, "The only thing you want to do is kill everything huh?"
"Thats right! (With lots of enthusiasm)"
Yeah, that is not limited by the target's size. Jeremy Crawford even mentioned that specific question on a Sage Advice video some time back, at the time talking about the Panther's ability to mosty the same effect.
You can think of it as the animal going to a weak spot (i.e. neck) and trying to twist them into submission like a great cat pouncing. It's not so much a size or weight comparison, but the way they do it. That said, it's hard to imagine that being effective against a whole Tarrasque, but I guess the Strength save is going to offset that chance a bit (even though Wis-build Rangers can get that DC on the low 20s).
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Yeah I talked with my GM about it, and he too thinks the rule is stupid.
So we agree on kinda the same rules as with grappeling, it can't knock prone a creature, more than 1 size larger than itself.
So now it can only knock prone large creatures or below, which is fine with me, and makes sense.
The question ties in with the Open Hand Monk's ability to knock a target prone, only the Monk ability is tied to a Dex save and on bigger enemies, that means the Monk will likely have a better chance of success. As a few have said, it's supposed to indicate a physics situation, where hitting something RIGHT there, with THIS amount of force, will knock it over. The saves scaling with enemy size and challenge rating are showing how it's more difficult, and there are less ways to do so to bigger, stronger things.
I don't see it as overpowered or anything, because high save bonuses will make it very rare that this feature is successful on anything bigger than Large sized. On those odd occasions it does land, it's reason to celebrate and have a memorable "party win" moment when tactics worked and paid off. That's how both my Stunning Strike and knocking prone (or back if I prefer) are on my Monk. Usually enemies make the save, but when they fail it's a lot of fun.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
I like to look at "cost of succeeding". The beast has more requirements than just a shove action.
Specific subclass >specific beast choice> specific positioning and movement>failed save>beat immunities.
The cost is alot so the beastmaster should get alot in return. Different choices could get that same ranger poison and blindsight or one of the "superior" ranger subclasses like gloomstalker or swarmkeeper.(note I don't believe they are but some optimizers do)