Hoping for a bit of advice here. First time playing a rouge (and not a very routined player, btw), so Im kind of lost as to what would be a good route to go with this build.
Our party consists of 4 players: cleric (life) , fighter (Echo Knight), wizard (illusion) and me.
I went with halfling as a race (with all the "1" I seem to be rolling, this was a no brainer :) )
The below pic is my stats at lvl 4 - but without having chosen either feat or ability improvements.
I cant really figure out, what (combat) strategy to use, if I chose some of the feats.
Eg: I see ppl advise "mobile" - but what (apart form the 10" is it, I get out of this?) How would it benefit my rouge / the party - how to use it in combat situations
Should I just forego the feats here at lvl 4, and just max out dex?
For what its worth: Currently I have been the hard hitter of the party - so I kind of need to "get in there" and get those sneak attack with the rapiers ....
So, any advice (or links) as to feats (which ones + how to use them in combat situations) OR if I should just pump dex for now?
Pump the Dex. It benefits Stealth, Acrobatics, Sleight of Hand, Dex save, Initiative, AC, and melee/missile attacks and damage. If you want a feat, I'd go with Squat Nimbleness:
Increase your Strength or Dexterity score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
If you fight with two rapiers, you might consider a one-level dip in fighter to get the Two-Weapon Fighting style, which adds your Dex bonus to your second attack's damage. You'd also get Second Wind, which gives you a little healing.
You could also consider a one-level dip in Wizard, which would give you more cantrips, Spell Recovery, and a spell book with a bunch of ritual spells like Comprehend Languages, Find Familiar, Identify, Detect Magic, Tenser's Floating Disk, etc. You'd also be able to cast some Transmutation spells like Feather Fall, Jump and Longstrider. Your Wizard might let you copy their 1st level spells.
The big benefit of Mobile besides the extra movement is it allows you to just move away from someone with having to disengage, as long as you have attacked them this round. It's one of the Swashbuckler's features.
I would've gone with DEX ASI as well, until you have it maxed out; you may have been the hard hitter of the party so far but this is going to change slightly at 5, with Fireball being available (among other things) to your Wizard...
Prioritizing DEX will simply allow you to continue to be good at what you do with your Skills, considering you will get a proficiency bonus increase at level 5. So good call there, imho :)
Squat nimbleness feat would be a great option to look at to round/max out DEX. For example, getting DEX/INT next ASI (8, rounding out INT to 16) and Squat Nimbleness (at 10) would work, but would delay having a +5 DEX modifier for a bit too long to my taste...
An Arcane Trickster is the most fun single class character to play in my opinion. Not the strongest but extremely diverse, capable and hard to pin down.
With a 15 intelligence I would go with either:
1. Fey Touched and Hex.
2. TeleKenetic (increases your awesome Mage Hand to 60 feet)
Either of these will boost Intelligence to 16. I would not take mobile on an Arcane Trickster until 10th level at least. That is too much to give up when you can disengage using cunning action.
As far as advice on spells, It looks like you are somewhere between 3rd and 6th level based on hit points?
On an Arcane Trickster here are the spells I like for level 3-6:
Cantrips: Minor Illusion, Green Flame Blade and of course the best Mage Hand in the game.
Non-illusion, non-enchantment Spells:
3rd level: Find Familiar - I generally take find familiar at 3rd level and then get a raven or a bat familiar and then get rid of the spell at 4th level. I don't use the familiar in combat much, some people say to get an owl for advantage, but they get slaughtered in combat in my experience. Get a bat for blindsight or a Raven for mockery and keep it in the pocket plane and only take it out when you need it.
4th-6th level: I generally trade Find Familiar for Absorb Elements from 4th-6th level.
8th level: At 8th level I like to take catapult as the second non-illusion/enchantment for catapulting nets, acid or alchemists fire. Generally sneak attack is better, but if you can line up 2 enemies when you can't sneak attack you can do some hurting on them.
Illusion and Enchantment Spells (in order I like them):
Tasha's Hideous Laughter - this is pretty awesome on a high-intelligence AT. I use in the 1st round a lot if I don't have the option for a sneak attack.
Disguise Self
Silvery Barbs
Charm Person
Silent Image
Combat Tactics: The key features of an Arcane Trickster are the combo of Mage Hand Legerdemain and Sneak Attack. You should be like the kid in home alone, causing all kinds of problems for the bad guys while also bringing the hammer down on them with sneak attack. With oil, caltrops, ball bearings and the ability to use slight of hand as a bonus action with the Mage Hand you really have a bonus with a very capable control and debuff option and even a limited damaging option.
1. Precombat:
Try to keep your Mage Hand out and near you as you are exploring so you do not have to cast it in combat. If you want to put it ahead of you, have it carrying something like caltrops or a flask of oil, so it does not have to come back and get this out of your pack. As a halfling you might also have it carrying a torch or lantern since you do not have darkvision.
You can use minor illusion to prep the battleffield before initiative if you know a fight is coming.
2. Open: In the first turn of combat
Action: if you have conditions for sneak attack shoot a bolt at whatever enemy. If you don't have sneak attack the first turn then either open with steady aim (giving you sneak attack) or Tasha's laughter. If/When Tasha's ends follow up with Hex for a bit more damage.
Bonus Action (assuming you did not use steady aim): Use your Mage Hand. Have it pull out a vial of oil or some caltrops or ball bearings and put it somewhere to screw up the enemy, or in the case of oil dump it on one of them. Alternatively, if the enemy has weapons or spell focuses or component pouches and do not have them in their hand use your mage hand to take one (note you hopefully have expertise in Slight Of Hand as an Arcane Trickster). Taking an enemies weapons or spell components severely nerfs them and you can do it as a bonus action.
if you took Fey Touched and Hex you can throw Hex this turn instead of using the Hand if no one is in Mage Hand range or if you just want too up damage. Hex wisdom so the enemy has disadvantage on slight of hand vs insight contests if you use your hand again later (also helps you hide)
Grind: Every Turn you should be Sneak attacking and taking a bonus action. Either using Green Flame Bade-disengage or ranged attack and mage hand. Try to limit steady aim as your other bonus actions will be more powerful, but if you don't have sneak attack then go ahead and use steady aim.
If you manage to dump oil on someone with your hand, try to follow up with a green flame blade attack and a disengage for extra damage or have the hand grab a torch off the wall to light them up.
Don't be afraid to drop your weapons to use a different weapon and make sure you have a few. If you end up using GFB and get caught in a situation where you need to make a ranged attack don't be afraid to fling a dagger or dart. You don't have to switch back to your crossbow just to get the extra 2 points of damage.
I tend to stay at range with my rogues. A short bow works well with a sneak attack. Let the tanks close and directly engage.
Raise that dex as high as possible as fast as possible.
If you want a better caster rogue a few levels in wizard work well. Or the feats magic initiate and ritual caster. I like ritual caster for all the non combat utility it gives you. magic initiate can give you a few more spells you would not normally get from any class.
I tend to stay at range with my rogues. A short bow works well with a sneak attack. Let the tanks close and directly engage.
Raise that dex as high as possible as fast as possible.
If you want a better caster rogue a few levels in wizard work well. Or the feats magic initiate and ritual caster. I like ritual caster for all the non combat utility it gives you. magic initiate can give you a few more spells you would not normally get from any class.
A one-level dip into Wizard essentially gives you both Mage Initiate and Ritual Caster, plus spell recovery and access to all of the 1st level spells.
Hi
Hoping for a bit of advice here. First time playing a rouge (and not a very routined player, btw), so Im kind of lost as to what would be a good route to go with this build.
Our party consists of 4 players: cleric (life) , fighter (Echo Knight), wizard (illusion) and me.
I went with halfling as a race (with all the "1" I seem to be rolling, this was a no brainer :) )
The below pic is my stats at lvl 4 - but without having chosen either feat or ability improvements.
I cant really figure out, what (combat) strategy to use, if I chose some of the feats.
Eg: I see ppl advise "mobile" - but what (apart form the 10" is it, I get out of this?) How would it benefit my rouge / the party - how to use it in combat situations
Should I just forego the feats here at lvl 4, and just max out dex?
For what its worth: Currently I have been the hard hitter of the party - so I kind of need to "get in there" and get those sneak attack with the rapiers ....
So, any advice (or links) as to feats (which ones + how to use them in combat situations) OR if I should just pump dex for now?
TIA
Pump the Dex. It benefits Stealth, Acrobatics, Sleight of Hand, Dex save, Initiative, AC, and melee/missile attacks and damage. If you want a feat, I'd go with Squat Nimbleness:
If you fight with two rapiers, you might consider a one-level dip in fighter to get the Two-Weapon Fighting style, which adds your Dex bonus to your second attack's damage. You'd also get Second Wind, which gives you a little healing.
You could also consider a one-level dip in Wizard, which would give you more cantrips, Spell Recovery, and a spell book with a bunch of ritual spells like Comprehend Languages, Find Familiar, Identify, Detect Magic, Tenser's Floating Disk, etc. You'd also be able to cast some Transmutation spells like Feather Fall, Jump and Longstrider. Your Wizard might let you copy their 1st level spells.
The big benefit of Mobile besides the extra movement is it allows you to just move away from someone with having to disengage, as long as you have attacked them this round. It's one of the Swashbuckler's features.
Edit: "without having to disengage".
+2 Dex on a rogue is an extremely difficult bar to clear with a feat. Until your Dex is 20 I don't think there is a reason to take a feat.
Thanks for the input.
Dex it is - for now :)
I would've gone with DEX ASI as well, until you have it maxed out; you may have been the hard hitter of the party so far but this is going to change slightly at 5, with Fireball being available (among other things) to your Wizard...
Prioritizing DEX will simply allow you to continue to be good at what you do with your Skills, considering you will get a proficiency bonus increase at level 5.
So good call there, imho :)
Squat nimbleness feat would be a great option to look at to round/max out DEX.
For example, getting DEX/INT next ASI (8, rounding out INT to 16) and Squat Nimbleness (at 10) would work, but would delay having a +5 DEX modifier for a bit too long to my taste...
Hyrkali
Full DNDBeyond.com in Dark Mode? Yes please!
An Arcane Trickster is the most fun single class character to play in my opinion. Not the strongest but extremely diverse, capable and hard to pin down.
With a 15 intelligence I would go with either:
1. Fey Touched and Hex.
2. TeleKenetic (increases your awesome Mage Hand to 60 feet)
Either of these will boost Intelligence to 16. I would not take mobile on an Arcane Trickster until 10th level at least. That is too much to give up when you can disengage using cunning action.
As far as advice on spells, It looks like you are somewhere between 3rd and 6th level based on hit points?
On an Arcane Trickster here are the spells I like for level 3-6:
Cantrips: Minor Illusion, Green Flame Blade and of course the best Mage Hand in the game.
Non-illusion, non-enchantment Spells:
3rd level: Find Familiar - I generally take find familiar at 3rd level and then get a raven or a bat familiar and then get rid of the spell at 4th level. I don't use the familiar in combat much, some people say to get an owl for advantage, but they get slaughtered in combat in my experience. Get a bat for blindsight or a Raven for mockery and keep it in the pocket plane and only take it out when you need it.
4th-6th level: I generally trade Find Familiar for Absorb Elements from 4th-6th level.
8th level: At 8th level I like to take catapult as the second non-illusion/enchantment for catapulting nets, acid or alchemists fire. Generally sneak attack is better, but if you can line up 2 enemies when you can't sneak attack you can do some hurting on them.
Illusion and Enchantment Spells (in order I like them):
Tasha's Hideous Laughter - this is pretty awesome on a high-intelligence AT. I use in the 1st round a lot if I don't have the option for a sneak attack.
Disguise Self
Silvery Barbs
Charm Person
Silent Image
Combat Tactics: The key features of an Arcane Trickster are the combo of Mage Hand Legerdemain and Sneak Attack. You should be like the kid in home alone, causing all kinds of problems for the bad guys while also bringing the hammer down on them with sneak attack. With oil, caltrops, ball bearings and the ability to use slight of hand as a bonus action with the Mage Hand you really have a bonus with a very capable control and debuff option and even a limited damaging option.
1. Precombat:
Try to keep your Mage Hand out and near you as you are exploring so you do not have to cast it in combat. If you want to put it ahead of you, have it carrying something like caltrops or a flask of oil, so it does not have to come back and get this out of your pack. As a halfling you might also have it carrying a torch or lantern since you do not have darkvision.
You can use minor illusion to prep the battleffield before initiative if you know a fight is coming.
2. Open: In the first turn of combat
Action: if you have conditions for sneak attack shoot a bolt at whatever enemy. If you don't have sneak attack the first turn then either open with steady aim (giving you sneak attack) or Tasha's laughter. If/When Tasha's ends follow up with Hex for a bit more damage.
Bonus Action (assuming you did not use steady aim): Use your Mage Hand. Have it pull out a vial of oil or some caltrops or ball bearings and put it somewhere to screw up the enemy, or in the case of oil dump it on one of them. Alternatively, if the enemy has weapons or spell focuses or component pouches and do not have them in their hand use your mage hand to take one (note you hopefully have expertise in Slight Of Hand as an Arcane Trickster). Taking an enemies weapons or spell components severely nerfs them and you can do it as a bonus action.
if you took Fey Touched and Hex you can throw Hex this turn instead of using the Hand if no one is in Mage Hand range or if you just want too up damage. Hex wisdom so the enemy has disadvantage on slight of hand vs insight contests if you use your hand again later (also helps you hide)
Grind: Every Turn you should be Sneak attacking and taking a bonus action. Either using Green Flame Bade-disengage or ranged attack and mage hand. Try to limit steady aim as your other bonus actions will be more powerful, but if you don't have sneak attack then go ahead and use steady aim.
If you manage to dump oil on someone with your hand, try to follow up with a green flame blade attack and a disengage for extra damage or have the hand grab a torch off the wall to light them up.
Don't be afraid to drop your weapons to use a different weapon and make sure you have a few. If you end up using GFB and get caught in a situation where you need to make a ranged attack don't be afraid to fling a dagger or dart. You don't have to switch back to your crossbow just to get the extra 2 points of damage.
I tend to stay at range with my rogues. A short bow works well with a sneak attack. Let the tanks close and directly engage.
Raise that dex as high as possible as fast as possible.
If you want a better caster rogue a few levels in wizard work well. Or the feats magic initiate and ritual caster. I like ritual caster for all the non combat utility it gives you. magic initiate can give you a few more spells you would not normally get from any class.
A one-level dip into Wizard essentially gives you both Mage Initiate and Ritual Caster, plus spell recovery and access to all of the 1st level spells.
I like casting to much so I would never get back out of Wizard.