Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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This feature CAN dish out a large amount of damage. This feature CAN be used twice per round with clever play.
There's only one question I have:
Why is it limited to attacks with finesse or ranged weapons specifically instead of generalizing to attacks using Dexterity like the 2024/5.5e Barbarian uses attacks using Strength?
The only real effect this has is allowing Barbarian-Rogues and inhibiting Monk-Rogues. I don't speak for anyone but myself, but I speak honestly when I say: I'd rather be able to sneak attack with a punch than rage as a rogue.
How can cleaver play get a thief to do sneak attack twice in a round?
Aren't finesse and range weapons dex based?
Why should any ability of a class be designed for promoting multi classing character?
By attacking again on someone else's turn. The most obvious way to do this is via an Opportunity Attack, but there are various other ways.
Ranged weapons are. Finesse weapons can use either Strength or Dexterity. This person's specific complaint is that not referencing Dexterity-based attacks specifically means they can't use Sneak Attack on Unarmed Strikes even if (as a Monk) they could make those using Dexterity.
They shouldn't.
pronouns: he/she/they
You could still use Sneak Attack with your Monk, you would just need to use a Finesse weapon instead of your fists. Limiting the weapon type actually allows for a wider range of possible multi-class options than it would if it just required Dexterity-based attacks (which for anyone other than a Monk, means a Finesse or ranged weapon anyways).
Monk 1/Rogue X would be an incredibly potent multi-class if you could Sneak Attack on Dex-based attacks. You could Bonus Action punch/Sneak Attack, then Ready your Action for another punch/Sneak Attack. While this isn't the only way to achieve the double Sneak Attack, it would definitely be one of the simplest and come online the fastest. Unarmed also has a lot of useful control options - consider that Lupin with Street Brawler, Grappler, Slasher and Tavern Brawler.
In contrast, being able to Sneak Attack using Strength is effectively worthless since Cunning/Devious Strikes is Dex-based. Strength is also a very weak stat even when you've got full access to Strength-based weapons and armor. If you're building a Strength-based character who only uses Finesse/Ranged weapons and full Stealth armors, you're going to be a lot weaker than a comparable Dex-based character.
Rogues are remarkably good multiclassing.
They do not suffer from the spell level issue (getting the same total spells, but with a level limit). They do not suffer from the extra attack not stacking.
There is NOTHING stopping a Fighter from using a Dex based melee build. They can use ranged weapons. They can choose to use a rapier instead of a battle axe.
Work with the limits, not against them.
Will need DM permission to reflavor Finess Weapon as Exotic Fist Wraps if you want character to be Unarmed Focus and still be able to use Sneak attack.
They should just allow any weapon or unarmed attack. i don't care if you use a hand axe or whatever the damage is d6 range who cares past that. And if you multi to get bigger weapons and get another d6 with your two handed sword whatever, balance is not swung much if at all. Imo they have too many rules that exist to enforce a very narrow view of how you should role play the class. I have similar issues with forcing strength based weapons on barbarians. let the rage be a cool calculated precise murderous rage with a dex weapon. At least there I kind of get it given unarmored defense. But I think there were better ways around that. But with the rogue let them snap peoples necks with their bare hands like every damn unarmed movie sneak attack in the last 20 years of movies.
If we just open up Sneak Attack to any weapon, it dramatically changes the balance of the game.
Unarmed Attacks have unencumbered Bonus Action attacks from either Monk (level 1) or Dance Bard (level 3). This means you can make a Bonus Action attack on your own turn and then Ready an off-turn attack with your main Action.
Polearms would be even better. You could Booming Blade with your Halberd on your turn, Sneak Attack/Withdraw. When your opponent moves to follow, they suffer Booming Blade damage and then your off-turn Sneak Attack from Polearm Mastery's Opportunity Attack.
Now, I'd argue that none of the above is actually imbalanced in the context of the game as a whole. However, it is imbalanced with regards to the weapons Rogues traditionally use. If you wanted to make a change that permitted (somehow) the use of Unarmed/Polearms, you'd probably also need to change the Light weapon property to de-couple the Bonus Action attack from the Action attack, like so:
Light. While holding two Light weapons, you may attack with one of them during your Bonus Action rather than your Action. If you do so, don’t add your ability modifier to the Bonus Action attack’s damage.
This would enable the same sort of approach that I mentioned above with Unarmed/Polearm with conventional Rogue weapons.
Sneak Attack is supposed to represent what makes a Rogue dangerous: precision, timing, and finesse—not brute strength.
A Rogue doesn’t necessarily hit harder because they’re stronger. They hit harder because they know exactly where to strike.
It’s the blade slipped into an exposed artery. The tendon cut at precisely the right moment. The knife driven between the ribs when an enemy’s guard drops. One carefully placed strike that does devastating damage because the Rogue saw an opening that someone else would have missed.
That’s why finesse weapons make thematic sense for Sneak Attack. A dagger or rapier might not normally deal enormous damage, but in the hands of a Rogue, placement matters more than size.
A Strength-based weapon represents a different philosophy: put more force behind the blow, swing a larger weapon, and let the weapon itself deliver the damage.
And an unarmed Monk has yet another identity: speed, technique, combinations, and a flurry of precisely controlled strikes.
Those are all great martial fantasies—but they aren’t the same fantasy.
Sneak Attack is the Rogue’s.
Not the biggest weapon. Not the most attacks. Just one perfectly placed attack at exactly the right moment.
If you think a longsword or a great sword are based on brute strength and not precision and finesse... you've never actually trained with either (nor even read a renaissance manual on fighting with one). They shouldn't even be slashing damage - they're primarily thrusting weapons. As a swung weapon, they're mostly just a poor mace once anyone is wearing any armor at all.
Two hands gives you greater control, not less.
Heck, go watch the movie Hero, and tell me a spear shouldn't be a finesse weapon.
But rogues don't even really fulfill that fantasy anyway. Most of the best rogue builds after tier 1 are tanks with good ways to generate off-turn attacks. (And that's even before some DMs stealth-nerf the Rogue by nerfing stealth into uselessness.)
This is the problem with AI-generated explanations for things (like the post you've quoted). They'll generate something answer-shaped without any guarantee that it makes any sense at all when examined by an actual human.
pronouns: he/she/they
DnD is missing a ruffian class, a thug, bruiser from a dark alley who use a club, sap or a big punch and it should not easily overlap with barbarians or monks.
Wizards of the Coast have not created a class like this, but there is the third-party Pugilist class which is exactly what you are describing - a strength-based unarmed class that has the flavor of a street fighter. Here is the first section from their description:
Yeah not a fan, too much stuff given at low levels that are better than other classes main features.