So I've a rogue who went the thief path. But at 4th level he took the magic initiate feat. Which is great! That he is able to let go of just pumping up his stats. So the first level spell he took was find familiar, a good choice. But the second one is mage hand. Also a really good choice. Now he of course wants to lock pick with it. But that's kinda what a arcane trickster can do. Kinda their thing. So the first time he did it I just gave him disadvantage on the check, simply because he is not an arcane trickster so he is not as trained in the use of magic to unlock doors. After a certain amount of time I would have removed the disadvantage. I was thinking of instead having him use int instead of dex. But that would only be 1 lower. I don't want to continue to punish him with using his feat creatively, buuuut there has to be at least some draw back to it, else he is basically getting a large part of arcane trickster while being a thief. If arcane tricksters wasn't as based on the mage hand cantrip I would've allowed him, but it's an ability that another class has. Any advice?
Seems reasonable, but I strongly suggest transparency - tell your player this and let them know that your plan is that they have disadvantage until they have practised sufficiently. I expect this will mean they end up spending spare time practising with it, which is cool and adds roleplay.
I wouldn't get too caught up on what other subclasses do though - let your players be creative and have fun.
Anyone can take the Magic Initiate feat and many can also get proficiency in Thieves' Tools.
I would allow anyone with these two things to pick locks with them, but unlike an Arcane Trickster... the mage hand would not be invisible, you can't do the other things an Arcane Trickster can do with it, and you can't use your Cunning Action bonus action to use it... those are all things only an Arcane Trickster can do.
Keep in mind a Thief has the Fast Hands ability and might be able to combine all these things to pull off some neat tricks.
Allow more stuff than what you disallow, as this promotes and rewards creativity and can lead to a lot of fun.
You can also use Mobile to gain a bit of the Swashbuckler cachet. Using feats to make the character you want to play is cool. Excessive min/maxing can be tedious, but definitely having fun with a character should be rewarded, and the 'practice to get good at picking locks with mage hand' does not seem like an inappropriate thing. Maybe set a 'level' that he/she will lose the disadvantage, or number of successful 'unlocks' or something along those lines. You could even have DC based rules. Like, if you unlock a DC 8 lock with magehand, (on the first go, without inspiration/luck/bardic inspiration) you lose disadvantage on that level of lock and lower. As their Dex/prof bonus grows with lock picking, so will their ability with long distance mage hand lockpicking. A DC 12 lock for level 4 with disadvantage might be hard, and a DC 15 at disadvantage really tough. DC 18 almost impossible. But once they nail one level, their confidence and skill with mage hand improves and now they're good at that level of lock and easier.
I really try to allow more but it's kinda hard when my players don't ask about being allowed to do something. They just do their thing. I'm planning on having enemies do more than attack. Like grappling them and throwing them down in campfires n' stuff. Yeah I can see the combo is nice but my only problem with it is that it makes a LARGE part of the arcane trickster meaningless. But I don't wanna block him from locking picking with mage hand. Never! That would be evil. ^^ I really like that he sees these things but I think I just might say that instead of allowing him to use this bonus action to lockpick it from the start, he has to train a bit because he is only level 4. But thank you for your help! ^^
So I've a rogue who went the thief path. But at 4th level he took the magic initiate feat. Which is great! That he is able to let go of just pumping up his stats. So the first level spell he took was find familiar, a good choice. But the second one is mage hand. Also a really good choice. Now he of course wants to lock pick with it. But that's kinda what a arcane trickster can do. Kinda their thing. So the first time he did it I just gave him disadvantage on the check, simply because he is not an arcane trickster so he is not as trained in the use of magic to unlock doors. After a certain amount of time I would have removed the disadvantage. I was thinking of instead having him use int instead of dex. But that would only be 1 lower.
I don't want to continue to punish him with using his feat creatively, buuuut there has to be at least some draw back to it, else he is basically getting a large part of arcane trickster while being a thief. If arcane tricksters wasn't as based on the mage hand cantrip I would've allowed him, but it's an ability that another class has. Any advice?
Seems reasonable, but I strongly suggest transparency - tell your player this and let them know that your plan is that they have disadvantage until they have practised sufficiently. I expect this will mean they end up spending spare time practising with it, which is cool and adds roleplay.
I wouldn't get too caught up on what other subclasses do though - let your players be creative and have fun.
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Thank you! ^^
Anyone can take the Magic Initiate feat and many can also get proficiency in Thieves' Tools.
I would allow anyone with these two things to pick locks with them, but unlike an Arcane Trickster... the mage hand would not be invisible, you can't do the other things an Arcane Trickster can do with it, and you can't use your Cunning Action bonus action to use it... those are all things only an Arcane Trickster can do.
Keep in mind a Thief has the Fast Hands ability and might be able to combine all these things to pull off some neat tricks.
Allow more stuff than what you disallow, as this promotes and rewards creativity and can lead to a lot of fun.
You can also use Mobile to gain a bit of the Swashbuckler cachet. Using feats to make the character you want to play is cool. Excessive min/maxing can be tedious, but definitely having fun with a character should be rewarded, and the 'practice to get good at picking locks with mage hand' does not seem like an inappropriate thing. Maybe set a 'level' that he/she will lose the disadvantage, or number of successful 'unlocks' or something along those lines. You could even have DC based rules. Like, if you unlock a DC 8 lock with magehand, (on the first go, without inspiration/luck/bardic inspiration) you lose disadvantage on that level of lock and lower. As their Dex/prof bonus grows with lock picking, so will their ability with long distance mage hand lockpicking. A DC 12 lock for level 4 with disadvantage might be hard, and a DC 15 at disadvantage really tough. DC 18 almost impossible. But once they nail one level, their confidence and skill with mage hand improves and now they're good at that level of lock and easier.
I really try to allow more but it's kinda hard when my players don't ask about being allowed to do something. They just do their thing. I'm planning on having enemies do more than attack.
Like grappling them and throwing them down in campfires n' stuff. Yeah I can see the combo is nice but my only problem with it is that it makes a LARGE part of the arcane trickster meaningless. But I don't wanna block him from locking picking with mage hand. Never! That would be evil. ^^ I really like that he sees these things but I think I just might say that instead of allowing him to use this bonus action to lockpick it from the start, he has to train a bit because he is only level 4. But thank you for your help! ^^
This sounds perfect! Thank you so much sir! That is a really good idea! ^^ Thank you! ^^