After some research I found out that a Wizard with the Magic initiate (wizard) feat can cast the 1st level spell more than once per day if they use spell slots, however a bard with the Magic initiate (wizard) feat cannot.
But what about an Arcane Trickster who takes the feat? Are they also able to treat the spell like one of their other spells from the wizard list?
I think the reason why it only works with a wizard is they are the only class that writes their spells in a book. So besides the 1 a day casting they can use their own spell slots to cast it again if they have it prepared.
That sounds reasonable, however I was only using wizards as an example. I am under the impression that you can cast the spells from magic initiate with your spell slots if you have a level of the same class chosen with the feat.
I am uncertain, for example, if you learn a spell via the feat from the sorcerer class, would you be able to use slots to cast that spell if you had bard levels. Assume that the spell appears on both class spell lists.
There are two criteria to consider when asking "could I cast it normally with spell slots?" regarding a spell given to you from a source like a feat or race:
If you have a Spellcasting feature that lets you cast spells from a class spell list and the spell is on that list. If the spell granted says you have a specific spellcasting ability (like Int or Cha) for that spell then your spellcasting feature must let you use the same spellcasting ability.
The feature says you "learn" or "know" the spell.
So if you had MI: Bard and were a Sorcerer and the spell chosen for the feat was also on the Sorcerer list, then you could cast it normally, because you know it, it's on your sorc spell list and uses the same spellcasting ability.
If you were a Drow which lets you cast Faerie Fire using Charisma, you still could not use it as a Bard (as in, use spell slots) because the racial feature may let you cast it but does not say you "learn" or "know it". It's just an inherent ability - you didn't "learn" to breathe, you just can, but it is possible to learn other breathing techniques and control over it, but that requires additional experience beyond what you're born with.
Of course, Wizards can add any spell they know from any source into a spellbook, they still have to spend the gold for scribing it as normal, though.
Can an Arcane Trickster with Magic Initiate: Wizard cast that feat spell normally? Yup. Because, as above, the feat says you "learn" it, it has the same spellcasting ability, and is on the same class spell list your Spellcasting feature lets you use.
The shorthand version: Is the spell one that your class(es) are already capable of casting (on class spell list, but not one you have learned/prepared)? Yes? Cool, you can cast it.
Keep in mind that certain sub-classes have restrictions on the school of spells that they can learn. Arcane Tricksters do use the Wizard spell list, but they are only allowed to learn spells from the Enchantment and Illusion schools. If the spell that you pick up from Magic Initiate (Wizard) is not Enchantment or Illusion, then you cannot cast it with your own spell slots.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Keep in mind that certain sub-classes have restrictions on the school of spells that they can learn. Arcane Tricksters do use the Wizard spell list, but they are only allowed to learn spells from the Enchantment and Illusion schools. If the spell that you pick up from Magic Initiate (Wizard) is not Enchantment or Illusion, then you cannot cast it with your own spell slots.
This is not completely accurate. Arcane tricksters have to learn mostly enchantment and illusion spells, but they can in fact learn a few spells from other schools. At level 3 they can know a maximum of 1 such spell, 2 at level 8, 3 at level 14, and 4 at level 20.
And the fact that they can learn even 1 non-illusion/enchantment spell means that all Wizard spells are on their spell list. This is true for eldritch knights as well, and no other (current) subclasses have restrictions on spell school.
Keep in mind that certain sub-classes have restrictions on the school of spells that they can learn. Arcane Tricksters do use the Wizard spell list, but they are only allowed to learn spells from the Enchantment and Illusion schools. If the spell that you pick up from Magic Initiate (Wizard) is not Enchantment or Illusion, then you cannot cast it with your own spell slots.
This is not completely accurate. Arcane tricksters have to learn mostly enchantment and illusion spells, but they can in fact learn a few spells from other schools. At level 3 they can know a maximum of 1 such spell, 2 at level 8, 3 at level 14, and 4 at level 20.
And the fact that they can learn even 1 non-illusion/enchantment spell means that all Wizard spells are on their spell list. This is true for eldritch knights as well, and no other (current) subclasses have restrictions on spell school.
Interesting... for EK's it's abjuration & evocation, but yes they do get a couple non-abj/evo spells too. I suppose that, so long as the source of the new spell is not from replacing a known spell from EK (thus the feat), then it's not a problem.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Would that mean the Misty Step from Fey Teleportation should be treated the same way. RAW it is one cast per short rest free but would be awesome for an AT to be able to bamf using additional spell slots. With only 4 non ill/enc spells allowed would be nice to get one more using the feat.
Would that mean the Misty Step from Fey Teleportation should be treated the same way. RAW it is one cast per short rest free but would be awesome for an AT to be able to bamf using additional spell slots. With only 4 non ill/enc spells allowed would be nice to get one more using the feat.
Yes, a high elf wizard could cast it using slots as well.
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After some research I found out that a Wizard with the Magic initiate (wizard) feat can cast the 1st level spell more than once per day if they use spell slots, however a bard with the Magic initiate (wizard) feat cannot.
But what about an Arcane Trickster who takes the feat? Are they also able to treat the spell like one of their other spells from the wizard list?
I think the reason why it only works with a wizard is they are the only class that writes their spells in a book. So besides the 1 a day casting they can use their own spell slots to cast it again if they have it prepared.
That sounds reasonable, however I was only using wizards as an example. I am under the impression that you can cast the spells from magic initiate with your spell slots if you have a level of the same class chosen with the feat.
I am uncertain, for example, if you learn a spell via the feat from the sorcerer class, would you be able to use slots to cast that spell if you had bard levels. Assume that the spell appears on both class spell lists.
This is the relevant rules text that lets you do it:
And magic initiate spells are still treated as class spells of the class they are chosen from.
There are two criteria to consider when asking "could I cast it normally with spell slots?" regarding a spell given to you from a source like a feat or race:
If you have a Spellcasting feature that lets you cast spells from a class spell list and the spell is on that list. If the spell granted says you have a specific spellcasting ability (like Int or Cha) for that spell then your spellcasting feature must let you use the same spellcasting ability.
The feature says you "learn" or "know" the spell.
So if you had MI: Bard and were a Sorcerer and the spell chosen for the feat was also on the Sorcerer list, then you could cast it normally, because you know it, it's on your sorc spell list and uses the same spellcasting ability.
If you were a Drow which lets you cast Faerie Fire using Charisma, you still could not use it as a Bard (as in, use spell slots) because the racial feature may let you cast it but does not say you "learn" or "know it". It's just an inherent ability - you didn't "learn" to breathe, you just can, but it is possible to learn other breathing techniques and control over it, but that requires additional experience beyond what you're born with.
Of course, Wizards can add any spell they know from any source into a spellbook, they still have to spend the gold for scribing it as normal, though.
Can an Arcane Trickster with Magic Initiate: Wizard cast that feat spell normally? Yup. Because, as above, the feat says you "learn" it, it has the same spellcasting ability, and is on the same class spell list your Spellcasting feature lets you use.
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Sounds good! Thanks
The shorthand version: Is the spell one that your class(es) are already capable of casting (on class spell list, but not one you have learned/prepared)? Yes? Cool, you can cast it.
Keep in mind that certain sub-classes have restrictions on the school of spells that they can learn. Arcane Tricksters do use the Wizard spell list, but they are only allowed to learn spells from the Enchantment and Illusion schools. If the spell that you pick up from Magic Initiate (Wizard) is not Enchantment or Illusion, then you cannot cast it with your own spell slots.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
This is not completely accurate. Arcane tricksters have to learn mostly enchantment and illusion spells, but they can in fact learn a few spells from other schools. At level 3 they can know a maximum of 1 such spell, 2 at level 8, 3 at level 14, and 4 at level 20.
And the fact that they can learn even 1 non-illusion/enchantment spell means that all Wizard spells are on their spell list. This is true for eldritch knights as well, and no other (current) subclasses have restrictions on spell school.
Interesting... for EK's it's abjuration & evocation, but yes they do get a couple non-abj/evo spells too. I suppose that, so long as the source of the new spell is not from replacing a known spell from EK (thus the feat), then it's not a problem.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Would that mean the Misty Step from Fey Teleportation should be treated the same way. RAW it is one cast per short rest free but would be awesome for an AT to be able to bamf using additional spell slots. With only 4 non ill/enc spells allowed would be nice to get one more using the feat.
Yes, a high elf wizard could cast it using slots as well.