I am currently creating a high elf rogue. My stats are: Str 9, Dex 19, Con 12, Int 18, Wis 11, Cha 7
The idea is a sun elf born into nobility whose social awkwardness and general nervousness about people and being in the spotlight made her master the skill of avoiding and hiding from people. She loves magic and learning about it, but felt more comfortable learning about it rather than actually being a flashy magician. Rather I see her picking up some pragmatic skills on how to survive as an adventurer. Because she knows a lot of magic and seeks magical knowledge however I like her supplementing her rogue skills with magic.
I am planning to start with rogue because the proficiencies and expertises are really nice, and the higher hit dice is nice as well, and I am also planning to take the sage background because that would give me an arcana proficiency.
Now I am really conflicted on where to go. I know there is an arcane trickster, but I don't yet know if it does her justice. While illusion spells are great, I don't see her enchanting anyone. Because we are playing in a horror setting, I don't find playing a prankster very compelling. I also like the flair of the divination subclass for her quite a bit, it works well with her wanting to gain a lot of knowledge. I know that the sorcerer's subtle spell would be absolutely great, but with a 7 in charisma, I don't see that as being a realistic option.
I would love to get some ideas on which spells to take, where to multiclass, what to choose for the rogue archetype, and whatever other ideas you have. I haven't played DnD for too long, I don't really know anything about higher level characters because I only had one to few shots with low lever characters, and this is supposed to be the first campaign.
I think our DM doesn't allow a lot of stuff, I am looking at stuff in the PhB, and I think he also has Xanathar's Guide to Everything.
How "stuck" are you to the stats? Does the DM require you to roll them in order, or do you get to select the order?
You might consider Bladesinger instead of Diviner, it will pair nicely with Rogue. I guess the question is do you want to be a Rogue which casts some spells, or a Wizard who can be rogueish? A lot of Rogue with a little Bladeslinger would be the more Rogue based, otherwise, you don't really want to do the dip. You'd be better off going full Wizard, taking a background which offers Stealth as a proficiency, and then specialize in spells to keep you out of sight/out of mind, etc. Sneak attack doesn't work with spells, requires a weapon attack, and the scaling from pure Wizard will outpace any additional damage from sneak attack without committing to Rogue.
Inquisitor would seem natural fit for the archetype if going for Rogue main, though you won't get any ability bonus to your Wisdom based skills/abilities which the archetype focuses on.
I rolled a 17 17 12 11 9 7 and put it into the stats. However, my character concept relies heavily at my character having a meek personality (which doesn't work well with high charisma) and having a hard time with getting her social surrounding (which doesn't work well with high insight).
The DM won't let me bladesing and I also don't quite see how it would make sense. Bladesingers apparently are "elves who bravely defend their people and lands" and are very closely linked to the elven tradition. My character is very interested in letting loose from the elven tradition and isn't the bravest person around, so I don't see her explicitly seek out bladesinging when it comes to her home. It would only make sense if it was something she was pushed to do long ago, but considering that it's on level 2, and I want to go rogue first, that doesn't seem to fit well. Given that it is supposed to be a well held secret, I also don't see how it's supposed to be given to her freely by some random elves later, especially because the campaign will be far from home.
I don't think that there is any background that fits the backstory which would give stealth as a proficiency, and I am very sold to the researcher feature. I really did think of doing sneak attack, but I don't really have a feel for the mechanics in later game.
I wanted to go rogue mainly, but I'm also considering to go wizard. I'm not very sold on either.
If you aren't "attached" to Wizard, then maybe think a slightly different route. Inquisitive would still be a probable first choice for archetype, with Thief and Mastermind being the next ones in order. To get "your magic on" maybe think about doing an even split of Rogue and Eldritch Knight. That "sticks" you with Offensive/Defensive spells, thus relying on Rogue for utility and stealth for the most part.
You'd then switch it up to take Fighter first (for Shield, hit points, and armour options) and then add on Rogue. Arcane Archer would be another choice, but overall is suboptimal to EK, especially if multiclassing. To give you a look into the future, assuming you go the least efficient route and alternate classes: You'd be a 5/5 with two ASI's, Extra Attack, 3d6 sneak attack with Finesse Weapons, then you can choose Two Weapon Fighting style /Dual Wielder Feat option (losing one ASI) or Finesse main (rapier being the highest base damage) and shield with Duelist style and keeping both ASI's. 1st level spells which you could cast 3 times a day. Uncanny Dodge, Cunning Action, Action Surge, and Second Wind. Here is an even split Duelist EK/AT example. This gets you access to 4 schools with the ability to "dip" into the rest every now and then. There are some problems with this "even" build, but overall would be pretty good "jack of quite a few trades".
That's an interesting idea, I will think about it. I didn't plan to be on the front for too much and really like the idea of a bow being my main weapon if that's any useful to know.
I really think you might want to take a look at the Bard College of Whispers. I know, it doesn't seem to fit, with your initial concept, but hear me out. Charisma is not necessarily OUTWARD force of personality, a dedicated introvert who has amazing willpower could also have quite a bit of Charisma. (For a slight twist, Half-High Elf for a reason for the secrecy) I can't really figure out how to mesh up Bardic Inspiration, maybe because you are socially awkward, you "piss people off" instead of inspire them. Mechanically the same, but it would be more like, "You can't make that jump..."
Gloom Stalker Ranger might be another choice that you could work with, once again, require some moving around of stats.
And where am I supposed to put my 7 in? I also don't see how my character would be interested in arts and performing, similarly like with bladesinging. The only think I could see her doing concerning art is stuff like kalligraphy.
I'm kinda playing with the idea of a way of the shadow monk, but I don't know how to change the concept, or with just going wizard, but none of the backgrounds with stealth do it.
College of Whispers really isn't about arts or performing, its about learning secretsand then exploiting them. Granted MOST use regular Bard tricks for their cover, but not all do. Like I said, it would take some stretching to pull off. For your 7, Wisdom becomes your logical choice, Constitution would be a very interesting choice...
If you take Sage as your background and already have Arcana as a Wizard skill, you get to pick any skill you want, so Stealth is back on the table. ;-) Or you can just do a one level dip into Rogue for additional Skill proficiency and expertise on two skills or a skill and Thieves Tools.
I thought Monk, but to be honest, it seems to "orderly" for what your concept, and then your dump stats would have to be Str, Int, Cha, which also doesn't sound like a fit.
Wizard with Arcane Trickster is by far from Optimal, but it does get you some extra use out of your Mage Hand. Would need to be Wizard X, Arcane Trickster 3 though. Which puts you "behind" on spell level by two, but only one behind on spell slots.
Ah, I completely forgot about that you can choose a different skill if you already have that one. That's really helpful, thanks. I might even just go with that.
I really don't like the college of whispers unfortunately, and I don't see it. I see how the monk would be too orderly, but the abilities and just the theme of the abilities are really nice. Maybe I'll do a build with a monk some time later, but then I would probably rather go for "was taken by a monastry as a child, but thrown out or ran away" instead, so I can go with something more chaotic.
Would it be bad if I just took one level in rogue and then went straight wizard though?
Not bad, never great to go out of straight caster, but a one level delay will barely be noticed (being character level 6 instead of 5 for Fireball for example).
Regarding the Arcane Trickster, it might be worth checking into how your DM feels about the psionic spells Unearthed Arcana. There's a handful of enchantment spells in there that play pretty differently from the standard fare; Mind Thrust in particular is a godsend for Arcane Tricksters. Also, if you utilize the Trickster and also dip Wizard, you can use the Wizard spells learned for non-Enchantment and Illusion based spells and work with that.
The flavor may take some finessing, but especially if you don't want to go terribly deep down the Wizard rabbit hole War Wizard might also be a subclass to consider. An initiative buff plays very well with your character's skittishness, and the arcane deflection seems like the sort of practical supplement to her rogue abilities that you were looking for. Neither of those abilities are intrinsically warlike, so that might be worth consulting with the DM. The later power surge ability is a bit odd if you plan on taking your Wizard levels to 6 or higher, but that ability is a bit odd in general and may not matter since you seem to want to be Rogue-dominant anyway.
I think I'm actually not going to go the rogue way as planned. So this is probably not even the right forum any more. I think I'm going to go with wizard, although I might do a similar idea with monk again. However, if I'm starting out as a wizard, I don't have light armor, and I don't have a shortbow, which does quite bug me.
High elf gives you Longbow proficiency, use gold instead of starting equipment and you should be able to get longbow, 20 arrows, component pouch, and a dungeoneers pack with average roll, else any offensive ranged cantrip will work for you instead of a bow.. Your stats are good enough to pick up Lightly Armoured feat at 4th is you really want it.
I've been playing a 99y old moonelf rogue. Arcane trickster was always the plan. Socially aekward as he grew up in cage close to a bare smouldering hearth in the basement . Kidnapped from Syngorn along with his sister Astra by a Hag and kept in an enchanted house. Astra was consumed by the Hag in the presence of Sai. Horrified. Sai somehow managed to escape..... Theres a lot more.. but the point is ☺️ its always best to talk to your DM\GM first and spittball a couple of ideas. You never know 😉 Most likely your DM/GM is profient in their craft. As a host of storytelling and setup, they tend to have the ability to make the players boldest fantasy come to life as Player Characters. Provided the necessary information is shared between the Player Character and DM/GM
Also Looking into multiclass to wizzard to get bladesong at lvl 2😁
So I think your Rogue subclass should be Arcane Trickster. Yes it is mostly illusion and enchantment spells but I think it matches the flavor you are describing well and it adds to your full caster levels for spell slots.
With a 7 Charisma and 11 wisdom you can't be an Sorcerer, Bard, Cleric, Druid or Warlock. Your only full caster option for multiclassing is Wizard.
I would say Divination is a fine choice and gives you access to all the wizard spells as well as ritual casting.
My DM also went with a house rule on school of magic: You get to choose spells from all the school BUT they cannot deal damage at all.
There are some very strong combo (some control spell are just great) but with the limited amount of spell slots on an Arcane trickster, it still is very utility based. Furthermore, since I choose my spell based out of RP (I don't do necromancy, anything that would abuse another's person and limits it to PHB for simplicity), it kinda balances out.
In case you are wondering, at level 9, I have those : Mage Hand, Message, Friends, Shield, Spider Climb, Misty Step, Identify, Invisibility, Hold Person. At 10, I will pickup Gust (thematically fitting for my character) and Knock.
Hello everyone,
I am currently creating a high elf rogue. My stats are:
Str 9, Dex 19, Con 12, Int 18, Wis 11, Cha 7
The idea is a sun elf born into nobility whose social awkwardness and general nervousness about people and being in the spotlight made her master the skill of avoiding and hiding from people. She loves magic and learning about it, but felt more comfortable learning about it rather than actually being a flashy magician. Rather I see her picking up some pragmatic skills on how to survive as an adventurer. Because she knows a lot of magic and seeks magical knowledge however I like her supplementing her rogue skills with magic.
I am planning to start with rogue because the proficiencies and expertises are really nice, and the higher hit dice is nice as well, and I am also planning to take the sage background because that would give me an arcana proficiency.
Now I am really conflicted on where to go. I know there is an arcane trickster, but I don't yet know if it does her justice. While illusion spells are great, I don't see her enchanting anyone. Because we are playing in a horror setting, I don't find playing a prankster very compelling. I also like the flair of the divination subclass for her quite a bit, it works well with her wanting to gain a lot of knowledge. I know that the sorcerer's subtle spell would be absolutely great, but with a 7 in charisma, I don't see that as being a realistic option.
I would love to get some ideas on which spells to take, where to multiclass, what to choose for the rogue archetype, and whatever other ideas you have. I haven't played DnD for too long, I don't really know anything about higher level characters because I only had one to few shots with low lever characters, and this is supposed to be the first campaign.
I think our DM doesn't allow a lot of stuff, I am looking at stuff in the PhB, and I think he also has Xanathar's Guide to Everything.
Thank you :)
How "stuck" are you to the stats? Does the DM require you to roll them in order, or do you get to select the order?
You might consider Bladesinger instead of Diviner, it will pair nicely with Rogue. I guess the question is do you want to be a Rogue which casts some spells, or a Wizard who can be rogueish? A lot of Rogue with a little Bladeslinger would be the more Rogue based, otherwise, you don't really want to do the dip. You'd be better off going full Wizard, taking a background which offers Stealth as a proficiency, and then specialize in spells to keep you out of sight/out of mind, etc. Sneak attack doesn't work with spells, requires a weapon attack, and the scaling from pure Wizard will outpace any additional damage from sneak attack without committing to Rogue.
Inquisitor would seem natural fit for the archetype if going for Rogue main, though you won't get any ability bonus to your Wisdom based skills/abilities which the archetype focuses on.
I rolled a 17 17 12 11 9 7 and put it into the stats. However, my character concept relies heavily at my character having a meek personality (which doesn't work well with high charisma) and having a hard time with getting her social surrounding (which doesn't work well with high insight).
The DM won't let me bladesing and I also don't quite see how it would make sense. Bladesingers apparently are "elves who bravely defend their people and lands" and are very closely linked to the elven tradition. My character is very interested in letting loose from the elven tradition and isn't the bravest person around, so I don't see her explicitly seek out bladesinging when it comes to her home. It would only make sense if it was something she was pushed to do long ago, but considering that it's on level 2, and I want to go rogue first, that doesn't seem to fit well. Given that it is supposed to be a well held secret, I also don't see how it's supposed to be given to her freely by some random elves later, especially because the campaign will be far from home.
I don't think that there is any background that fits the backstory which would give stealth as a proficiency, and I am very sold to the researcher feature. I really did think of doing sneak attack, but I don't really have a feel for the mechanics in later game.
I wanted to go rogue mainly, but I'm also considering to go wizard. I'm not very sold on either.
If you aren't "attached" to Wizard, then maybe think a slightly different route. Inquisitive would still be a probable first choice for archetype, with Thief and Mastermind being the next ones in order. To get "your magic on" maybe think about doing an even split of Rogue and Eldritch Knight. That "sticks" you with Offensive/Defensive spells, thus relying on Rogue for utility and stealth for the most part.
You'd then switch it up to take Fighter first (for Shield, hit points, and armour options) and then add on Rogue. Arcane Archer would be another choice, but overall is suboptimal to EK, especially if multiclassing. To give you a look into the future, assuming you go the least efficient route and alternate classes: You'd be a 5/5 with two ASI's, Extra Attack, 3d6 sneak attack with Finesse Weapons, then you can choose Two Weapon Fighting style /Dual Wielder Feat option (losing one ASI) or Finesse main (rapier being the highest base damage) and shield with Duelist style and keeping both ASI's. 1st level spells which you could cast 3 times a day. Uncanny Dodge, Cunning Action, Action Surge, and Second Wind. Here is an even split Duelist EK/AT example. This gets you access to 4 schools with the ability to "dip" into the rest every now and then. There are some problems with this "even" build, but overall would be pretty good "jack of quite a few trades".
That's an interesting idea, I will think about it. I didn't plan to be on the front for too much and really like the idea of a bow being my main weapon if that's any useful to know.
I think, I'm kinda not convinced. There doesn't seem to be a rogue subclass that I really like, they are all pretty unconvincing.
I really think you might want to take a look at the Bard College of Whispers. I know, it doesn't seem to fit, with your initial concept, but hear me out. Charisma is not necessarily OUTWARD force of personality, a dedicated introvert who has amazing willpower could also have quite a bit of Charisma. (For a slight twist, Half-High Elf for a reason for the secrecy) I can't really figure out how to mesh up Bardic Inspiration, maybe because you are socially awkward, you "piss people off" instead of inspire them. Mechanically the same, but it would be more like, "You can't make that jump..."
Gloom Stalker Ranger might be another choice that you could work with, once again, require some moving around of stats.
And where am I supposed to put my 7 in? I also don't see how my character would be interested in arts and performing, similarly like with bladesinging. The only think I could see her doing concerning art is stuff like kalligraphy.
I'm kinda playing with the idea of a way of the shadow monk, but I don't know how to change the concept, or with just going wizard, but none of the backgrounds with stealth do it.
College of Whispers really isn't about arts or performing, its about learning secretsand then exploiting them. Granted MOST use regular Bard tricks for their cover, but not all do. Like I said, it would take some stretching to pull off. For your 7, Wisdom becomes your logical choice, Constitution would be a very interesting choice...
If you take Sage as your background and already have Arcana as a Wizard skill, you get to pick any skill you want, so Stealth is back on the table. ;-) Or you can just do a one level dip into Rogue for additional Skill proficiency and expertise on two skills or a skill and Thieves Tools.
I thought Monk, but to be honest, it seems to "orderly" for what your concept, and then your dump stats would have to be Str, Int, Cha, which also doesn't sound like a fit.
Wizard with Arcane Trickster is by far from Optimal, but it does get you some extra use out of your Mage Hand. Would need to be Wizard X, Arcane Trickster 3 though. Which puts you "behind" on spell level by two, but only one behind on spell slots.
Ah, I completely forgot about that you can choose a different skill if you already have that one. That's really helpful, thanks. I might even just go with that.
I really don't like the college of whispers unfortunately, and I don't see it. I see how the monk would be too orderly, but the abilities and just the theme of the abilities are really nice. Maybe I'll do a build with a monk some time later, but then I would probably rather go for "was taken by a monastry as a child, but thrown out or ran away" instead, so I can go with something more chaotic.
Would it be bad if I just took one level in rogue and then went straight wizard though?
Not bad, never great to go out of straight caster, but a one level delay will barely be noticed (being character level 6 instead of 5 for Fireball for example).
Regarding the Arcane Trickster, it might be worth checking into how your DM feels about the psionic spells Unearthed Arcana. There's a handful of enchantment spells in there that play pretty differently from the standard fare; Mind Thrust in particular is a godsend for Arcane Tricksters. Also, if you utilize the Trickster and also dip Wizard, you can use the Wizard spells learned for non-Enchantment and Illusion based spells and work with that.
The flavor may take some finessing, but especially if you don't want to go terribly deep down the Wizard rabbit hole War Wizard might also be a subclass to consider. An initiative buff plays very well with your character's skittishness, and the arcane deflection seems like the sort of practical supplement to her rogue abilities that you were looking for. Neither of those abilities are intrinsically warlike, so that might be worth consulting with the DM. The later power surge ability is a bit odd if you plan on taking your Wizard levels to 6 or higher, but that ability is a bit odd in general and may not matter since you seem to want to be Rogue-dominant anyway.
I think I'm actually not going to go the rogue way as planned. So this is probably not even the right forum any more. I think I'm going to go with wizard, although I might do a similar idea with monk again. However, if I'm starting out as a wizard, I don't have light armor, and I don't have a shortbow, which does quite bug me.
High elf gives you Longbow proficiency, use gold instead of starting equipment and you should be able to get longbow, 20 arrows, component pouch, and a dungeoneers pack with average roll, else any offensive ranged cantrip will work for you instead of a bow.. Your stats are good enough to pick up Lightly Armoured feat at 4th is you really want it.
Well, I need a spellbook, which apparently costs 50 GP.
I've been playing a 99y old moonelf rogue. Arcane trickster was always the plan. Socially aekward as he grew up in cage close to a bare smouldering hearth in the basement . Kidnapped from Syngorn along with his sister Astra by a Hag and kept in an enchanted house. Astra was consumed by the Hag in the presence of Sai. Horrified. Sai somehow managed to escape..... Theres a lot more.. but the point is ☺️ its always best to talk to your DM\GM first and spittball a couple of ideas. You never know 😉 Most likely your DM/GM is profient in their craft. As a host of storytelling and setup, they tend to have the ability to make the players boldest fantasy come to life as Player Characters. Provided the necessary information is shared between the Player Character and DM/GM
Also Looking into multiclass to wizzard to get bladesong at lvl 2😁
So I think your Rogue subclass should be Arcane Trickster. Yes it is mostly illusion and enchantment spells but I think it matches the flavor you are describing well and it adds to your full caster levels for spell slots.
With a 7 Charisma and 11 wisdom you can't be an Sorcerer, Bard, Cleric, Druid or Warlock. Your only full caster option for multiclassing is Wizard.
I would say Divination is a fine choice and gives you access to all the wizard spells as well as ritual casting.
My DM let my Trickster swap Enchantment spells for Transmutation spells. feather Fall has come in handy more than once.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/891-rogue-101-arcane-trickster
My DM also went with a house rule on school of magic: You get to choose spells from all the school BUT they cannot deal damage at all.
There are some very strong combo (some control spell are just great) but with the limited amount of spell slots on an Arcane trickster, it still is very utility based. Furthermore, since I choose my spell based out of RP (I don't do necromancy, anything that would abuse another's person and limits it to PHB for simplicity), it kinda balances out.
In case you are wondering, at level 9, I have those : Mage Hand, Message, Friends, Shield, Spider Climb, Misty Step, Identify, Invisibility, Hold Person.
At 10, I will pickup Gust (thematically fitting for my character) and Knock.
Hyrkali
Full DNDBeyond.com in Dark Mode? Yes please!