Am I reading this right? It seems like it would be rules legal for a 9th level Phantom to use Wails from the Grave twice by destroying a soul trinket. Wails from the Grave doesn't take any sort of action, it just triggers on a Sneak Attack. Breaking a soul trinket also doesn't take any sort of action and triggers on a Sneak Attack, so could you Sneak Attack, use Wails from the Grave and also break a trinket and use Wails from the Grave again?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Since it only triggers on Sneak Attack...and Sneak Attack only happens once per turn for Rogues...even renewing Wails if the Grave doesn’t let someone use it twice.
It would allow them to use it the next turn, should they run out of their uses-per-proficiency.
The idea is...as long as you use your reaction when someone’s dies...you always get a Soul Trinket...so you can always have a use of Wails of the Grave...which, since you’re damaging up to two targets with Sneak Attack...someone SHOULD always be dying. ; )
I had a somewhat protracted debate with folks over on the Discord channel about this and everyone seems to agree with you. I just don't see where the rule is that limits the use of Wails to once in the same round, given that a Phantom's Sneak Attack is the trigger for two ways to get Wails from the Grave. But I don't want to frustrate people with my lack of understanding.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I just don't see where the rule is that limits the use of Wails to once in the same round, given that a Phantom's Sneak Attack is the trigger for two ways to get Wails from the Grave. But I don't want to frustrate people with my lack of understanding.
Agree that the current rules for don't explicitly state that Wails from the Grave can only be used once per turn, but it does clearly state that it must be done immediately after the rogue deals their sneak attack damage. As a DM, I would probably disallow using Tokens of the Departed to get a second use of Wails from the Grave on the SAME sneak attack, because the verbiage states that it must also be done immediately after the sneak attack damage is dealt. My personal logic being that you cannot immediately use two separate abilities at the same time.
Another DM might allow it, since the abilities aren't specifically actions, but I don't believe the intent was to double-up in one round. As Tony already touched upon, the idea of Tokens of the Departed is to help ensure that you can gain additional uses of Wails from the Grave after your daily allotment is expended.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Am I reading this right? It seems like it would be rules legal for a 9th level Phantom to use Wails from the Grave twice by destroying a soul trinket. Wails from the Grave doesn't take any sort of action, it just triggers on a Sneak Attack. Breaking a soul trinket also doesn't take any sort of action and triggers on a Sneak Attack, so could you Sneak Attack, use Wails from the Grave and also break a trinket and use Wails from the Grave again?
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Since it only triggers on Sneak Attack...and Sneak Attack only happens once per turn for Rogues...even renewing Wails if the Grave doesn’t let someone use it twice.
It would allow them to use it the next turn, should they run out of their uses-per-proficiency.
The idea is...as long as you use your reaction when someone’s dies...you always get a Soul Trinket...so you can always have a use of Wails of the Grave...which, since you’re damaging up to two targets with Sneak Attack...someone SHOULD always be dying. ; )
I had a somewhat protracted debate with folks over on the Discord channel about this and everyone seems to agree with you. I just don't see where the rule is that limits the use of Wails to once in the same round, given that a Phantom's Sneak Attack is the trigger for two ways to get Wails from the Grave. But I don't want to frustrate people with my lack of understanding.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Agree that the current rules for don't explicitly state that Wails from the Grave can only be used once per turn, but it does clearly state that it must be done immediately after the rogue deals their sneak attack damage. As a DM, I would probably disallow using Tokens of the Departed to get a second use of Wails from the Grave on the SAME sneak attack, because the verbiage states that it must also be done immediately after the sneak attack damage is dealt. My personal logic being that you cannot immediately use two separate abilities at the same time.
Another DM might allow it, since the abilities aren't specifically actions, but I don't believe the intent was to double-up in one round. As Tony already touched upon, the idea of Tokens of the Departed is to help ensure that you can gain additional uses of Wails from the Grave after your daily allotment is expended.