My apologies in advance if this has been covered elsewhere, but I haven't found it anywhere if it's out there.
I want to play a divine soul sorcerer for a new campaign my group is going to start soon. I've only been playing D&D for about a year, and this is my first time playing a sorcerer so I wanted to solicit opinions and advice on spell selection. There will be another caster in the party who I think is going to focus more on support/utility, and so I would like to focus more on blasting. I think a monk and some tankier character will make up the rest of the party. We are starting at level 1 and the plan is to go up to about 15 or so. I don't plan on multiclassing, so I'll just want to try to hang back and deal damage from a distance. I've been trying to plan out likely spells for at least the first few levels. Here's what I've been thinking so far:
Cantrips: Sacred Flame, Fire Bolt, Guidance, Mage Hand
Spell Level 1: Guiding Bolt, Mage Armor, Shield
Spell Level 2: Shatter or Scorching Ray, Misty Step, and swap out my starting bonus cleric spell for Spiritual Weapon
Spell Level 3: Fireball
That's about all I have, and it will probably take our group a while to get to PC levels 5/6. I'm thinking of taking empowered spell and twinned spell as my first two metamagics and probably heightened spell later on. I was thinking Spiritual Weapon would always give me something to do with my bonus action and so reduce the need to take quickened spell, and twinning Guiding Bolt seems rather powerful early on. I'm not sure when or if that would be a spell I would want to switch out eventually. I don't know how well it scales, but giving advantage to the next attack on the target is nice. I was also leaning more towards Shatter than Scorching Ray otherwise I wouldn't have any AoE spells, but then probably switching it out when I get Fireball. But I was also thinking I probably want to pick up Scorching Ray at some point anyway because it seems like it scales well.
I'd love to hear any thoughts anyone has about my plan. Are there other spells I should consider instead of the ones I've mentioned here? Spells to consider at higher levels? Which spells should I think about swapping out and when? Or anything else I should consider. Sorcerer seems like an unforgiving class to play. I'd like to do my best at constructing it so I don't end up feeling frustrated. Thanks for any help you can give.
I love your selection of cantrips. You picked a nice blend with 2 different damage types, a bonus to 3/4 of the skill checks that the party will make, and a great utility spell. Very, very nice choices.
For your spells, since you’re starting at first level, you can swap out one spell each time you level up so I’d really only focus on your first level spells for now. If you find that you’re not using a spell that you thought you’d love you can easily swap it out for another one.
Having said that, Guiding Bolt is awesome, especially with Twin Spell so that your teammates can almost definitely get advantage on one attack every time you cast it. That’s incredibly useful! You’re a little bit heavy on defensive spells and you might find that you don’t need both Mage Armor and Shield. Then again, with a small party you might end up in melee enough that you use both of them constantly and are still taking damage regularly.
As you go up in level, I’d make sure that you diversify your damage types so that you can be useful against every opponent you run into and try to have a spell of every level that each of your metamagic options will work with. That way you can use your metamagic almost every time you want to.
Between what you have and what Tim said, I think you have a strong build. The only addendum I might make is that if you can find the space, Healing Word is an excellent spell and even better with Twinned Spell. Sure, it's not blasting, but with a bonus action and range you can pick two allies up off the ground for a low cost. It really enhances the survivability of your party.
Shatter is an excellent spell, but I might also consider Aganazzar's Scorcher as another option. I don't love the spell enough to recommend it over Shatter, but enough to mention it as a contender. It's also easy to upgrade to fireball at level 5.
At some point the ability to cast guiding bolt and then quicken fire bolt would be a nice one two attack.
It's gonna need to be guiding bolt quickened followed by fire bolt. The bonus action rules say that if you cast a spell as a bonus action, you can't cast spells besides 1 action cantrips for the rest of your turn. It doesn't really matter, just remember to quicken the 1st level or higher spell, not the cantrip.
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You can do that. Just cast Guidong Bolt 1st, then quicken fire bolt.
Even if it's a cantrip, doing quickened makes any other spell you cast on the turn be a cantrip. If you quicken guiding bolt, then you can cast fire bolt as an action, however, if you quicken fire bolt, you cannot cast guiding bolt as an action.
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You can cast a quickened guiding bolt followed by twinned fire bolt, but not twinned guiding bolt followed by quickened fire bolt. Only one metamagic per spell, except for empowered.
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Okay, the rules for spellcasting are this: If you cast a spell as a bonus action, you can only cast a cantrip as an action for the rest of the turn. Therefore, you can cast two cantrips with quickened and normal, but not a quickened cantrip as well as a 1st level or higher spell. The order does not matter. If you have an action surge, however, you can use this, since these rules only apply to spells with bonus actions.
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Okay, the rules for spellcasting are this: If you cast a spell as a bonus action, you can only cast a cantrip as an action for the rest of the turn. Therefore, you can cast two cantrips with quickened and normal, but not a quickened cantrip as well as a 1st level or higher spell. The order does not matter. If you have an action surge, however, you can use this, since these rules only apply to spells with bonus actions.
Sorry if this is a really late response. But in that section “cantrip” and “spell” are separate. If you quicken Firebolt, the bonus action SPELL rule doesn’t apply. If you quicken Guiding Bolt, it does apply but Firebolt can still be cast. The order doesn’t matter, as long as one is a cantrip and one is a leveled spell.
Okay, the rules for spellcasting are this: If you cast a spell as a bonus action, you can only cast a cantrip as an action for the rest of the turn. Therefore, you can cast two cantrips with quickened and normal, but not a quickened cantrip as well as a 1st level or higher spell. The order does not matter. If you have an action surge, however, you can use this, since these rules only apply to spells with bonus actions.
Sorry if this is a really late response. But in that section “cantrip” and “spell” are separate. If you quicken Firebolt, the bonus action SPELL rule doesn’t apply. If you quicken Guiding Bolt, it does apply but Firebolt can still be cast. The order doesn’t matter, as long as one is a cantrip and one is a leveled spell.
I'm sorry, but what are you trying to say here? I think we're both saying the same thing; As long as the leveled spell is the quickened one, the order doesn't matter. If you quicken a cantrip, however, you can only cast another cantrip with a 1 action casting time, since cantrips are spells. Here are the specific rules:
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
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I do generally try to go for versatility in spell choice, so there are a few things i would personally change.
1. Ray of Frost is more useful than Firebolt. The damage die difference is minimal, only 1 point different on average per level (at worst its 4 less damage at high levels) but reducing speed is far more useful than being able to set things on fire, especially for a non-multiclassed sorc with limited options for defense. Fire can be achieved by multiple means, including very easy mundane means.
2. I generally prefer toll the dead to sacred flame. It can be a difference in preference for flavor, so no big deal. There is an argument for not needing 2 damage cantrips early on, however. You could replace sacred flame with Minor Illusion, Mold Earth, Prestidigitation or Thaumaturgy and get more capabilities early on, then grab a save based damage cantrip at level 5. The opposite is also true, but utility cantrips are even more effective when you have fewer specific options, such as at lower levels.
3. Your selections for 1st level spells are good. Guiding bolt is one of the most powerful low level blasting spells, and the free advantage is always welcomed by your party. One could argue that you dont necessarily need both mage armor and shield, but i can't fault the choice for both.
4. Your second level spells are decent, but i would suggest that you dont need multiple damage options at every spell level. I would personally change out shatter/scorching ray for Spirit Guardians once you hit level 5, its an efficient spell that is both an aoe damage option as well as battlefield control.
5. Metamagics. Everyone has their pet picks, and i dont think there are any truly bad options, but consider: cleric spells were not picked for that list with the understanding that metamagic would apply. This means that there are some potent combinations, such as the Distant metamagic with Spirit Guardians -- a 30ft radius aura of damage and difficult terrain? Yes please. Toss some ray of frosts out there and you are keeping people stuck in your damage zones for a long time.
5. Metamagics. Everyone has their pet picks, and i dont think there are any truly bad options, but consider: cleric spells were not picked for that list with the understanding that metamagic would apply. This means that there are some potent combinations, such as the Distant metamagic with Spirit Guardians -- a 30ft radius aura of damage and difficult terrain? Yes please. Toss some ray of frosts out there and you are keeping people stuck in your damage zones for a long time.
I'm sorry but Spirit Guardians have a range of self and as such can't be boosted by Distant metamagic, believe me, I tried to justify it when I picked a Divine Soul sorc. A spell that definitely will benefit from that is Inflict Wounds. Ever wanted those juicy d10's but don't like to get too close? Now you can do it at the comfort of 30 feet of distance. Need to touch someone quickly before something bad happens and you don't want to get into the thick of things? Distant cast Lesser Restoration or even Revivify followed by a Distant Cure wounds the next round or Healing Word even further away if you really want to stay away. A nice combo for a lot of damage can be a Twinned Guiding Bolt at 1st lvl to see who will be the lucky recipient of an upcast at max available lvl Inflict Wounds the next turn, if both Guiding Bolts hit you get to choose who you dislike the most. Great! 4d6(avg. 14) first and then at 4th lvl 6d10(avg. 33) damage the next, or if you hit both Guiding Bolts you can maybe hit a Twinned Inflict Wounds if the targets are close enough for a 3d10(avg. 16.5) on both of them. Now that's cost effective spell casting if you ask me :) If you're at a high enough level a Twinned Fire Bolt will do the same damage (3d10) to two targets for the measly cost of 1 sorcery point.
5. Metamagics. Everyone has their pet picks, and i dont think there are any truly bad options, but consider: cleric spells were not picked for that list with the understanding that metamagic would apply. This means that there are some potent combinations, such as the Distant metamagic with Spirit Guardians -- a 30ft radius aura of damage and difficult terrain? Yes please. Toss some ray of frosts out there and you are keeping people stuck in your damage zones for a long time.
I'm sorry but Spirit Guardians have a range of self and as such can't be boosted by Distant metamagic, believe me, I tried to justify it when I picked a Divine Soul sorc. A spell that definitely will benefit from that is Inflict Wounds. Ever wanted those juicy d10's but don't like to get too close? Now you can do it at the comfort of 30 feet of distance. Need to touch someone quickly before something bad happens and you don't want to get into the thick of things? Distant cast Lesser Restoration or even Revivify followed by a Distant Cure wounds the next round or Healing Word even further away if you really want to stay away. A nice combo for a lot of damage can be a Twinned Guiding Bolt at 1st lvl to see who will be the lucky recipient of an upcast at max available lvl Inflict Wounds the next turn, if both Guiding Bolts hit you get to choose who you dislike the most. Great! 4d6(avg. 14) first and then at 4th lvl 6d10(avg. 33) damage the next, or if you hit both Guiding Bolts you can maybe hit a Twinned Inflict Wounds if the targets are close enough for a 3d10(avg. 16.5) on both of them. Now that's cost effective spell casting if you ask me :) If you're at a high enough level a Twinned Fire Bolt will do the same damage (3d10) to two targets for the measly cost of 1 sorcery point.
Question. With guiding bolt, is there a good way of using Elven Accuracy feat since you have advantage? (And you’re an elf or half elf, of course). Would it be worth it in conjunction with Spiritual Hammer as your bonus action attack? Or better off with something else?
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My apologies in advance if this has been covered elsewhere, but I haven't found it anywhere if it's out there.
I want to play a divine soul sorcerer for a new campaign my group is going to start soon. I've only been playing D&D for about a year, and this is my first time playing a sorcerer so I wanted to solicit opinions and advice on spell selection. There will be another caster in the party who I think is going to focus more on support/utility, and so I would like to focus more on blasting. I think a monk and some tankier character will make up the rest of the party. We are starting at level 1 and the plan is to go up to about 15 or so. I don't plan on multiclassing, so I'll just want to try to hang back and deal damage from a distance. I've been trying to plan out likely spells for at least the first few levels. Here's what I've been thinking so far:
Cantrips: Sacred Flame, Fire Bolt, Guidance, Mage Hand
Spell Level 1: Guiding Bolt, Mage Armor, Shield
Spell Level 2: Shatter or Scorching Ray, Misty Step, and swap out my starting bonus cleric spell for Spiritual Weapon
Spell Level 3: Fireball
That's about all I have, and it will probably take our group a while to get to PC levels 5/6. I'm thinking of taking empowered spell and twinned spell as my first two metamagics and probably heightened spell later on. I was thinking Spiritual Weapon would always give me something to do with my bonus action and so reduce the need to take quickened spell, and twinning Guiding Bolt seems rather powerful early on. I'm not sure when or if that would be a spell I would want to switch out eventually. I don't know how well it scales, but giving advantage to the next attack on the target is nice. I was also leaning more towards Shatter than Scorching Ray otherwise I wouldn't have any AoE spells, but then probably switching it out when I get Fireball. But I was also thinking I probably want to pick up Scorching Ray at some point anyway because it seems like it scales well.
I'd love to hear any thoughts anyone has about my plan. Are there other spells I should consider instead of the ones I've mentioned here? Spells to consider at higher levels? Which spells should I think about swapping out and when? Or anything else I should consider. Sorcerer seems like an unforgiving class to play. I'd like to do my best at constructing it so I don't end up feeling frustrated. Thanks for any help you can give.
I love your selection of cantrips. You picked a nice blend with 2 different damage types, a bonus to 3/4 of the skill checks that the party will make, and a great utility spell. Very, very nice choices.
For your spells, since you’re starting at first level, you can swap out one spell each time you level up so I’d really only focus on your first level spells for now. If you find that you’re not using a spell that you thought you’d love you can easily swap it out for another one.
Having said that, Guiding Bolt is awesome, especially with Twin Spell so that your teammates can almost definitely get advantage on one attack every time you cast it. That’s incredibly useful! You’re a little bit heavy on defensive spells and you might find that you don’t need both Mage Armor and Shield. Then again, with a small party you might end up in melee enough that you use both of them constantly and are still taking damage regularly.
As you go up in level, I’d make sure that you diversify your damage types so that you can be useful against every opponent you run into and try to have a spell of every level that each of your metamagic options will work with. That way you can use your metamagic almost every time you want to.
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Between what you have and what Tim said, I think you have a strong build. The only addendum I might make is that if you can find the space, Healing Word is an excellent spell and even better with Twinned Spell. Sure, it's not blasting, but with a bonus action and range you can pick two allies up off the ground for a low cost. It really enhances the survivability of your party.
Shatter is an excellent spell, but I might also consider Aganazzar's Scorcher as another option. I don't love the spell enough to recommend it over Shatter, but enough to mention it as a contender. It's also easy to upgrade to fireball at level 5.
Thank you! I hadn’t thought about using Twin Spell on healing spells. Now I’m thinking about using it on single target buff and debuff spells too!
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At some point the ability to cast guiding bolt and then quicken fire bolt would be a nice one two attack.
It's gonna need to be guiding bolt quickened followed by fire bolt. The bonus action rules say that if you cast a spell as a bonus action, you can't cast spells besides 1 action cantrips for the rest of your turn. It doesn't really matter, just remember to quicken the 1st level or higher spell, not the cantrip.
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Don't forget to choose some spells to use your concentration on. For example, Bane could help you land Fireball.
Absorb Elements is really good as you get a little higher level. And Chromatic Orb is useful when facing enemies who have immunities.
A little less good as you then you can't twin guiding bolt and quicken fire bolt....I guess you could still twin fire bolt....
You can do that. Just cast Guidong Bolt 1st, then quicken fire bolt.
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Even if it's a cantrip, doing quickened makes any other spell you cast on the turn be a cantrip. If you quicken guiding bolt, then you can cast fire bolt as an action, however, if you quicken fire bolt, you cannot cast guiding bolt as an action.
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Just Twin first, then quicken. Easy fix.
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You can cast a quickened guiding bolt followed by twinned fire bolt, but not twinned guiding bolt followed by quickened fire bolt. Only one metamagic per spell, except for empowered.
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You’re casting 2 spells. Here’s what I’m saying.
You twin a Guiding Bolt. 2 bolts are shot. 1 meta magic, 1 spell.
Yiu quicken a Fire bolt. You fire it. 1 meta magic, 1 spell.
therefore, you an do both. 1 meta magic per spell.
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Okay, the rules for spellcasting are this: If you cast a spell as a bonus action, you can only cast a cantrip as an action for the rest of the turn. Therefore, you can cast two cantrips with quickened and normal, but not a quickened cantrip as well as a 1st level or higher spell. The order does not matter. If you have an action surge, however, you can use this, since these rules only apply to spells with bonus actions.
Subclass Evaluations So Far:
Sorcerer
Warlock
My statblock. Fear me!
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What race are you playing? IMO Protector Aasimar and Divine Soul Sorcerer go together like peas and carrots.
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Sorry if this is a really late response. But in that section “cantrip” and “spell” are separate. If you quicken Firebolt, the bonus action SPELL rule doesn’t apply. If you quicken Guiding Bolt, it does apply but Firebolt can still be cast. The order doesn’t matter, as long as one is a cantrip and one is a leveled spell.
I'm sorry, but what are you trying to say here? I think we're both saying the same thing; As long as the leveled spell is the quickened one, the order doesn't matter. If you quicken a cantrip, however, you can only cast another cantrip with a 1 action casting time, since cantrips are spells. Here are the specific rules:
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
Subclass Evaluations So Far:
Sorcerer
Warlock
My statblock. Fear me!
Hosted a battle between the Cult of Sedge and the Forum Counters here(Done now). I_Love_Tarrasques has won the fight, scoring a victory for the fiendish Moderators.
First off, your planned spells are totally fine.
I do generally try to go for versatility in spell choice, so there are a few things i would personally change.
1. Ray of Frost is more useful than Firebolt. The damage die difference is minimal, only 1 point different on average per level (at worst its 4 less damage at high levels) but reducing speed is far more useful than being able to set things on fire, especially for a non-multiclassed sorc with limited options for defense. Fire can be achieved by multiple means, including very easy mundane means.
2. I generally prefer toll the dead to sacred flame. It can be a difference in preference for flavor, so no big deal. There is an argument for not needing 2 damage cantrips early on, however. You could replace sacred flame with Minor Illusion, Mold Earth, Prestidigitation or Thaumaturgy and get more capabilities early on, then grab a save based damage cantrip at level 5. The opposite is also true, but utility cantrips are even more effective when you have fewer specific options, such as at lower levels.
3. Your selections for 1st level spells are good. Guiding bolt is one of the most powerful low level blasting spells, and the free advantage is always welcomed by your party. One could argue that you dont necessarily need both mage armor and shield, but i can't fault the choice for both.
4. Your second level spells are decent, but i would suggest that you dont need multiple damage options at every spell level. I would personally change out shatter/scorching ray for Spirit Guardians once you hit level 5, its an efficient spell that is both an aoe damage option as well as battlefield control.
5. Metamagics. Everyone has their pet picks, and i dont think there are any truly bad options, but consider: cleric spells were not picked for that list with the understanding that metamagic would apply. This means that there are some potent combinations, such as the Distant metamagic with Spirit Guardians -- a 30ft radius aura of damage and difficult terrain? Yes please. Toss some ray of frosts out there and you are keeping people stuck in your damage zones for a long time.
I'm sorry but Spirit Guardians have a range of self and as such can't be boosted by Distant metamagic, believe me, I tried to justify it when I picked a Divine Soul sorc. A spell that definitely will benefit from that is Inflict Wounds. Ever wanted those juicy d10's but don't like to get too close? Now you can do it at the comfort of 30 feet of distance. Need to touch someone quickly before something bad happens and you don't want to get into the thick of things? Distant cast Lesser Restoration or even Revivify followed by a Distant Cure wounds the next round or Healing Word even further away if you really want to stay away. A nice combo for a lot of damage can be a Twinned Guiding Bolt at 1st lvl to see who will be the lucky recipient of an upcast at max available lvl Inflict Wounds the next turn, if both Guiding Bolts hit you get to choose who you dislike the most. Great! 4d6(avg. 14) first and then at 4th lvl 6d10(avg. 33) damage the next, or if you hit both Guiding Bolts you can maybe hit a Twinned Inflict Wounds if the targets are close enough for a 3d10(avg. 16.5) on both of them. Now that's cost effective spell casting if you ask me :) If you're at a high enough level a Twinned Fire Bolt will do the same damage (3d10) to two targets for the measly cost of 1 sorcery point.
Question. With guiding bolt, is there a good way of using Elven Accuracy feat since you have advantage? (And you’re an elf or half elf, of course). Would it be worth it in conjunction with Spiritual Hammer as your bonus action attack? Or better off with something else?