I'm looking to try and be a frontliner as a Sorcerer. Not 'tank', but able to be targeted and not piss my pants. The idea is to be this vicious pyromancer who gets their power directly from the Elemental Plan of Fire. Sitting back behind people, casting spells at a safe distance? Pathetic. They'd rather run around the battlefield burning everything in their path. The play style would probably be something like a barbarian, but using Flame Blade and quickening spells, combined with their Pyromancy class abilities.
Making the character was going surprisingly really well. Until I ran into one major problem: Armor.
Sorcerers don't have proficiency in ANY armor. My AC would be 10 + Dex. Which would be 12... I guess Mage Armor helps, but let's be real, 15 AC isn't that great either. I'm not looking for 20 AC as a sorcerer, but something like 17-18 would be nice. So I started looking into ways to get Medium Armor proficiency. And there are none.
Well... None I'm okay with anyway.
To get it via feats I have to get light armor proficiency first and then medium armor proficiency, and that's not worth it. I already decided the feats I was going to take and they're pretty much needed for this character to even function the way I want them to. (Flames of Phlegethos, War Caster, Tough) There's no room for 2 extra feats.
Multi-classing seemed like the most solid solution.... But nah. Starting level 1 as a fighter/Cleric/whatever just for a single proficiency leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Plus it would make no sense with my character's background anyway. They're a Sorcerer through and through.
I thought of maybe being a certain race? Some races get armor proficiency and others have natural armor. But I'd rather not, being a Tiefling makes experiencing this character 100% more fun aesthetically.
Finally, I turned towards magic items. Something that gave me a boost to AC one way or another... There's a few, I guess. Most require proficiency or don't surpass 14 AC. The two I found was Elven Chain or Robes of the Archmage which is a Legendary item that I'm never going to get. Elven chain seemed nice but my AC would still not get higher than 16 even if I did manage to get it somehow.
I know 16 is only 1 less than 17, but in my experience 17 AC really is the magic number that determines if you're getting hit by 4/6 goblins or just 2/6 goblins. As for higher CR creatures, they're hitting anything no matter what with their 10+ to hit stats. I'm more worried about surviving hordes of low CR creatures early on so I can even get to 'mid-game'.
So, any ideas? Some last ditch way to snag a fair AC so I can run around and not be too scared of certain death?
It's cheesy as all hell, but a level of Hexblade really does help out a lot. You would get medium armor, shields, and the ability to attack with charisma instead of dexterity (for times when you don't have spell slots and are instead casting Green Flame Blade or something like that instead of Flame Blade). As for flavor, I would talk to your DM about it. They might be ok with you completely ignoring the warlock flavor and chalking it up to your specific Sorcerer powers or training.
Even so, I can see how this might not be appealing, so the fallback I can think of is the combo of Mage Armor and Shield. It takes up a lot of your limited spells known and a decent chunk of spell slots, but 15 AC that spikes to 20 in times of need isn't half bad. If you're not up for multiclassing or feat chains, you likely do have to pay in spells for the ability to mix it up on the front line. Other spells worth considering might be Absorb Elements, Blur, False Life, Mirror Image, etc.
Well if you are red draconic sorcerer you can start with a 13 base and it gives you the fire damage bonus along with the hit point bonus. I think it fits ok with a Tiefling / tiamat connection. I think you need higher dex personally.....
You “need” to use Burning Hands too! You’re going to end up using 3 or 4 of your known spells on defensive spells. Mage Armor, Shield, Mirror Image, and Blink are four that I like myself.
So I started looking into ways to get Medium Armor proficiency. And there are none.
Does your DM allow for Downtime Activities/accumulation of downtime points towards a specific goal? Such a system could feasibly allow you to gain proficiency with medium armor by spending a reasonably set amount of downtime points towards that. I have done this in a pre-written campaign where I declared I wanted to gain proficiency with heavy armor on my toon. I spent the requisite points (I don't recall how many my DM required, sorry) and also shelled out a bunch of gold to "train with a master" in order to double my downtime points. Might be something you could inquire about with your DM.
Multiclassing is def your best solution in this case, but you are sort of limiting yourself here. Dwarf would get you the medium armor, Tortles give you 17 ac, Luxodon technically exists but is likely just a worse Tortle for you. Magic items wise grabbing something like Bracers of Defense would likely be a solid choice as well as the two you mentioned, though it is incompatible with elven chain. Really your just setting a LOT of limitations on yourself, sorcerer wasn't meant to be a frontline meat shield, especially a pyromancer.
Tortle you can be like Bowser. I think multiclassing is your best bet since it's a low dip. Two levels fighter gives you all of the armor and weapon proficiency and if you start fighter you get higher HP to start. Two levels for action surge will allow you to cast two action spells in one turn as long as you don't cast a bonus action spell. I think you need to be careful you really don't want to be hit.
I'm looking to try and be a frontliner as a Sorcerer. Not 'tank', but able to be targeted and not piss my pants. The idea is to be this vicious pyromancer who gets their power directly from the Elemental Plan of Fire. Sitting back behind people, casting spells at a safe distance? Pathetic. They'd rather run around the battlefield burning everything in their path. The play style would probably be something like a barbarian, but using Flame Blade and quickening spells, combined with their Pyromancy class abilities.
Making the character was going surprisingly really well. Until I ran into one major problem: Armor.
Sorcerers don't have proficiency in ANY armor. My AC would be 10 + Dex. Which would be 12... I guess Mage Armor helps, but let's be real, 15 AC isn't that great either. I'm not looking for 20 AC as a sorcerer, but something like 17-18 would be nice. So I started looking into ways to get Medium Armor proficiency. And there are none.
Well... None I'm okay with anyway.
To get it via feats I have to get light armor proficiency first and then medium armor proficiency, and that's not worth it. I already decided the feats I was going to take and they're pretty much needed for this character to even function the way I want them to. (Flames of Phlegethos, War Caster, Tough) There's no room for 2 extra feats.
Multi-classing seemed like the most solid solution.... But nah. Starting level 1 as a fighter/Cleric/whatever just for a single proficiency leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Plus it would make no sense with my character's background anyway. They're a Sorcerer through and through.
I thought of maybe being a certain race? Some races get armor proficiency and others have natural armor. But I'd rather not, being a Tiefling makes experiencing this character 100% more fun aesthetically.
Finally, I turned towards magic items. Something that gave me a boost to AC one way or another... There's a few, I guess. Most require proficiency or don't surpass 14 AC. The two I found was Elven Chain or Robes of the Archmage which is a Legendary item that I'm never going to get. Elven chain seemed nice but my AC would still not get higher than 16 even if I did manage to get it somehow.
I know 16 is only 1 less than 17, but in my experience 17 AC really is the magic number that determines if you're getting hit by 4/6 goblins or just 2/6 goblins. As for higher CR creatures, they're hitting anything no matter what with their 10+ to hit stats. I'm more worried about surviving hordes of low CR creatures early on so I can even get to 'mid-game'.
So, any ideas? Some last ditch way to snag a fair AC so I can run around and not be too scared of certain death?
Multi-class hexblade warlock, and flavor the spells are part of your sorcery.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Try Draconic Sorcerer for a 13 + dexterity AC, It is a life saver! And for an ability Score improvement choose the weapon master feat for proficiency in better weapons.
Kind of old thread, but you could also make a reasonable frontline sorcerer out of a mountain dwarf. they get medium armor and axes/hammers so you can smack things around with a battleaxe or warhammer 2h for d10 damage. You can get the SCAG cantrips and quicken/twin you can do some interesting things. Shield can help make up for your AC. I'm not sure how well it would actually scale, but at low levels it should be functional.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Another Magic Item that comes to mind would be Bracers of Defense. You get a +2 to AC while wearing no Armor and no Shield. With Draconic Ancestry and a+2 in DEX you would sit at your desired 17 AC.
The item is rare and if you have a Monk or Barbarian in your group, you will have a hard time getting your hands on them. Nonetheless, worth considering.
Regarding your Build, going Draconic Ancestry with a fire-related Ancestor is your best base imho. You get a bigger healthpool than the average Sorcerer from lvl 1, Elemental Affinity at 6, you might even get to skip one of the feats (Tough, Phlegetos, if you happen to do so you could even boost DEX for a +1 to AC). Level 14 gives you a flying speed at will (Bonus action) in case you need to retreat out of the thick of things. Going this route, you don't even need to multiclass.
Another advantage of Hexblade is that you can take the invocation Armor of Shadows and have unlimited Mage Armor, you might want to look at possibly going Warlock as a Pyromancer. It could be different, but would allow you to be more frontline, as although it's more limited spells (sorry no fireball unless you go fiend) but has higher HD to build play with. A Tiefling Fiend warlock could be good, or you could go Pact of the tome and build up you know spells.
Alternatively talk to you DM about allowing a Hexblade with a modified spell list to accomodate your concept, if they like it it might be an easy stretch.
Mage armor really isn't an advantage to the hexblade. Hexblades can wear medium armor. On any other warlock, mage armor is only good until the character can get studded leather +1.
If I was going to make a front line fire mage, I'd probably go mountain dwarf for weapons and armor. Divine sorcerer for the best spell selection. Two of my cantrips will go to booming blade and greenflame blade. Firebolt for range, and create bonfire for a save vs attack round out my combat cantrip picks. For spells, at level 1, I am probably going to take burning hands and shield of faith. In most circumstances, I will be concentrating on shield of faith to prop up my AC. At level two I will pick up the shield spell. I'm going to play using basic cleric tactics; move into melee and cast cantrips.
At level 3 I get second level spells and I can now pick two meta magics. Twin and quicken are the obvious picks to twin or double up on my melee cantrips. I also get spiritual weapon for when I am not quickening. Level 4 is more of the same. I am probably taking a feat for warcaster to get advantage on my conc saves. I'll be throwing burning hands and greenflame blade when I can.
At level 5 I am taking spirit guardians. I can't concentrate on this /and/ on shield of faith, which is partially why I wanted warcaster. I want to keep those spirit guardians up.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Life is about compromise. (Two ways to rule - dictator or compromise, pick one and go with it).
To get Medium armor you need one level of something else or a race. My Wizard gave up armor till I hit 8th level when I found Elven Chain. Used mage armor till then.
If you really truly want Armor, take one level of CLERIC. It's not just about the armor. For one level of Cleric (taken 1st level) you get:
Medium Armor
Shields
+2 hp
All simple weapons
Trade being really good at Int saves for being good at both Int and Cha saves.
3 extra cantrips
A whole bunch of free first level spells, which do NOT count among your limit of Int+level for preparing, PLUS 2 from a Domain that you ALWAYS have memorized
Domain abilities
You give up:
You learn spells of 2nd level or higher one level later. ( Exact SAME slots. So you tend to upcast your highest slot.)
Feat delayed by one level
Losing Proficiency in Arcana
Getting Wizard first instead of Cleric means:
+2 hp turns into +1 hp, on average (changing a set 8 vs 6 to a d8 vs d6)
Giving up the simple weapons
Giving up the better save distribution (being better at Int, but suck at Cha)
You got that Arcana Proficiency back.
For me, I want the cleric first. Just need a good Wisdom which help your saves and perception.
So I have a storm sorcerer that I just built. I have 16 dex after a racial, so AC13. After a cloak of protection, a ring of protection and mage armor I'm sitting at 18 AC. My DM found me a Staff of Defense, so that's +1 AC and a free cast of Mage armor. So I'm sitting at 19 AC in no armor at all. Now I wanted to do the same thing as you and become a frontliner. So after 6 levels of sorcerer, I went 1 level of tempest cleric because I got lucky on a couple rolls (after racials and an ASI I ended up with 7,16,16,11,13,18). Now I can get a shield and sit at 21AC in no armor, and I can hit 23AC with the Cleric's Shield of Faith spell if I don't want to use my concentration for anything else. Someone hit's me? I can use a Shield spell and there's a large chance no one is touching me. Add that on top of my Warcaster feat, 16 CON, and +8 to CON saves(ring and cloak of protection help here), I'm really hard to hit/knock off concentration. Add that to the 10ft of free movement I get as a storm sorcerer when I cast 1 lvl1 spell or higher and I'm quick as lightning!
You don't need the cleric/warlock/bard dip if you don't want. You just need to get as much protection items as possible, definitely ask your DM about this so he can maybe plant some items somewhere for you.
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I'm looking to try and be a frontliner as a Sorcerer. Not 'tank', but able to be targeted and not piss my pants. The idea is to be this vicious pyromancer who gets their power directly from the Elemental Plan of Fire. Sitting back behind people, casting spells at a safe distance? Pathetic. They'd rather run around the battlefield burning everything in their path. The play style would probably be something like a barbarian, but using Flame Blade and quickening spells, combined with their Pyromancy class abilities.
Making the character was going surprisingly really well. Until I ran into one major problem: Armor.
Sorcerers don't have proficiency in ANY armor. My AC would be 10 + Dex. Which would be 12... I guess Mage Armor helps, but let's be real, 15 AC isn't that great either. I'm not looking for 20 AC as a sorcerer, but something like 17-18 would be nice. So I started looking into ways to get Medium Armor proficiency. And there are none.
Well... None I'm okay with anyway.
To get it via feats I have to get light armor proficiency first and then medium armor proficiency, and that's not worth it. I already decided the feats I was going to take and they're pretty much needed for this character to even function the way I want them to. (Flames of Phlegethos, War Caster, Tough) There's no room for 2 extra feats.
Multi-classing seemed like the most solid solution.... But nah. Starting level 1 as a fighter/Cleric/whatever just for a single proficiency leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Plus it would make no sense with my character's background anyway. They're a Sorcerer through and through.
I thought of maybe being a certain race? Some races get armor proficiency and others have natural armor. But I'd rather not, being a Tiefling makes experiencing this character 100% more fun aesthetically.
Finally, I turned towards magic items. Something that gave me a boost to AC one way or another... There's a few, I guess. Most require proficiency or don't surpass 14 AC. The two I found was Elven Chain or Robes of the Archmage which is a Legendary item that I'm never going to get. Elven chain seemed nice but my AC would still not get higher than 16 even if I did manage to get it somehow.
I know 16 is only 1 less than 17, but in my experience 17 AC really is the magic number that determines if you're getting hit by 4/6 goblins or just 2/6 goblins. As for higher CR creatures, they're hitting anything no matter what with their 10+ to hit stats. I'm more worried about surviving hordes of low CR creatures early on so I can even get to 'mid-game'.
So, any ideas? Some last ditch way to snag a fair AC so I can run around and not be too scared of certain death?
It's cheesy as all hell, but a level of Hexblade really does help out a lot. You would get medium armor, shields, and the ability to attack with charisma instead of dexterity (for times when you don't have spell slots and are instead casting Green Flame Blade or something like that instead of Flame Blade). As for flavor, I would talk to your DM about it. They might be ok with you completely ignoring the warlock flavor and chalking it up to your specific Sorcerer powers or training.
Even so, I can see how this might not be appealing, so the fallback I can think of is the combo of Mage Armor and Shield. It takes up a lot of your limited spells known and a decent chunk of spell slots, but 15 AC that spikes to 20 in times of need isn't half bad. If you're not up for multiclassing or feat chains, you likely do have to pay in spells for the ability to mix it up on the front line. Other spells worth considering might be Absorb Elements, Blur, False Life, Mirror Image, etc.
Well if you are red draconic sorcerer you can start with a 13 base and it gives you the fire damage bonus along with the hit point bonus. I think it fits ok with a Tiefling / tiamat connection. I think you need higher dex personally.....
How about The winged Tiefling variant? This won’t change your AC but it will make it a lot harder for you to get hit.
You “need” to use Burning Hands too! You’re going to end up using 3 or 4 of your known spells on defensive spells. Mage Armor, Shield, Mirror Image, and Blink are four that I like myself.
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Tortles start with an AC 17, just stating if you want higher ac
Does your DM allow for Downtime Activities/accumulation of downtime points towards a specific goal? Such a system could feasibly allow you to gain proficiency with medium armor by spending a reasonably set amount of downtime points towards that. I have done this in a pre-written campaign where I declared I wanted to gain proficiency with heavy armor on my toon. I spent the requisite points (I don't recall how many my DM required, sorry) and also shelled out a bunch of gold to "train with a master" in order to double my downtime points. Might be something you could inquire about with your DM.
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Multiclassing is def your best solution in this case, but you are sort of limiting yourself here. Dwarf would get you the medium armor, Tortles give you 17 ac, Luxodon technically exists but is likely just a worse Tortle for you. Magic items wise grabbing something like Bracers of Defense would likely be a solid choice as well as the two you mentioned, though it is incompatible with elven chain. Really your just setting a LOT of limitations on yourself, sorcerer wasn't meant to be a frontline meat shield, especially a pyromancer.
Tortle you can be like Bowser. I think multiclassing is your best bet since it's a low dip. Two levels fighter gives you all of the armor and weapon proficiency and if you start fighter you get higher HP to start. Two levels for action surge will allow you to cast two action spells in one turn as long as you don't cast a bonus action spell. I think you need to be careful you really don't want to be hit.
Your secret is safe with my indifference - Percy
Multi-class hexblade warlock, and flavor the spells are part of your sorcery.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Try Draconic Sorcerer for a 13 + dexterity AC, It is a life saver! And for an ability Score improvement choose the weapon master feat for proficiency in better weapons.
Kind of old thread, but you could also make a reasonable frontline sorcerer out of a mountain dwarf. they get medium armor and axes/hammers so you can smack things around with a battleaxe or warhammer 2h for d10 damage. You can get the SCAG cantrips and quicken/twin you can do some interesting things. Shield can help make up for your AC. I'm not sure how well it would actually scale, but at low levels it should be functional.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Another Magic Item that comes to mind would be Bracers of Defense. You get a +2 to AC while wearing no Armor and no Shield. With Draconic Ancestry and a+2 in DEX you would sit at your desired 17 AC.
The item is rare and if you have a Monk or Barbarian in your group, you will have a hard time getting your hands on them. Nonetheless, worth considering.
Regarding your Build, going Draconic Ancestry with a fire-related Ancestor is your best base imho. You get a bigger healthpool than the average Sorcerer from lvl 1, Elemental Affinity at 6, you might even get to skip one of the feats (Tough, Phlegetos, if you happen to do so you could even boost DEX for a +1 to AC). Level 14 gives you a flying speed at will (Bonus action) in case you need to retreat out of the thick of things. Going this route, you don't even need to multiclass.
Also getting your hands on a cloak of protection is the icing on the cake. The +1 is still useful. But I would say try to get the bracers first.
Another advantage of Hexblade is that you can take the invocation Armor of Shadows and have unlimited Mage Armor, you might want to look at possibly going Warlock as a Pyromancer. It could be different, but would allow you to be more frontline, as although it's more limited spells (sorry no fireball unless you go fiend) but has higher HD to build play with. A Tiefling Fiend warlock could be good, or you could go Pact of the tome and build up you know spells.
Alternatively talk to you DM about allowing a Hexblade with a modified spell list to accomodate your concept, if they like it it might be an easy stretch.
You bring up a good point, that could be a fun build.
Mage armor really isn't an advantage to the hexblade. Hexblades can wear medium armor. On any other warlock, mage armor is only good until the character can get studded leather +1.
If I was going to make a front line fire mage, I'd probably go mountain dwarf for weapons and armor. Divine sorcerer for the best spell selection. Two of my cantrips will go to booming blade and greenflame blade. Firebolt for range, and create bonfire for a save vs attack round out my combat cantrip picks. For spells, at level 1, I am probably going to take burning hands and shield of faith. In most circumstances, I will be concentrating on shield of faith to prop up my AC. At level two I will pick up the shield spell. I'm going to play using basic cleric tactics; move into melee and cast cantrips.
At level 3 I get second level spells and I can now pick two meta magics. Twin and quicken are the obvious picks to twin or double up on my melee cantrips. I also get spiritual weapon for when I am not quickening. Level 4 is more of the same. I am probably taking a feat for warcaster to get advantage on my conc saves. I'll be throwing burning hands and greenflame blade when I can.
At level 5 I am taking spirit guardians. I can't concentrate on this /and/ on shield of faith, which is partially why I wanted warcaster. I want to keep those spirit guardians up.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Sounds like a fun build
Life is about compromise. (Two ways to rule - dictator or compromise, pick one and go with it).
To get Medium armor you need one level of something else or a race. My Wizard gave up armor till I hit 8th level when I found Elven Chain. Used mage armor till then.
If you really truly want Armor, take one level of CLERIC. It's not just about the armor. For one level of Cleric (taken 1st level) you get:
You give up:
Getting Wizard first instead of Cleric means:
For me, I want the cleric first. Just need a good Wisdom which help your saves and perception.
So I have a storm sorcerer that I just built. I have 16 dex after a racial, so AC13. After a cloak of protection, a ring of protection and mage armor I'm sitting at 18 AC. My DM found me a Staff of Defense, so that's +1 AC and a free cast of Mage armor. So I'm sitting at 19 AC in no armor at all. Now I wanted to do the same thing as you and become a frontliner. So after 6 levels of sorcerer, I went 1 level of tempest cleric because I got lucky on a couple rolls (after racials and an ASI I ended up with 7,16,16,11,13,18). Now I can get a shield and sit at 21AC in no armor, and I can hit 23AC with the Cleric's Shield of Faith spell if I don't want to use my concentration for anything else. Someone hit's me? I can use a Shield spell and there's a large chance no one is touching me. Add that on top of my Warcaster feat, 16 CON, and +8 to CON saves(ring and cloak of protection help here), I'm really hard to hit/knock off concentration. Add that to the 10ft of free movement I get as a storm sorcerer when I cast 1 lvl1 spell or higher and I'm quick as lightning!
You don't need the cleric/warlock/bard dip if you don't want. You just need to get as much protection items as possible, definitely ask your DM about this so he can maybe plant some items somewhere for you.