I've made what I consider to be a fix for the sorcerer class in 5th edition, and I made it from the complaints that I've from people.
They would get meta magic every 2 levels and give them 4 sorcery points per level and give them expertise on Arcana and passive detect magic, give them the ability to know their whole spell list but only let them have up to a max of 25 available spells and allow them to regain 2 sorcery points on a short rest. As a support option you can give your team mates meta magic abilities or an extra spell slot, and as a not so support ability allow twin spell to work on every spell that a sorcerer can cast and expand their spell list, you could also or give them the ability to convert spells to their list from other spell lists, and get rid of the required long rest on the sorcerer subclass spells. Sorcery points could also be used as a substitute for spell components.
Tell me your criticisms and ideas you have I'm eager to hear of other peoples ideas and how they might fix/buff the sorcerer class.
Metamagic I think would be better to start at 3 (2 options) then gain 1 more every 4 levels. This will result in steadier progression and 6 metamagics instead of 4, which is more balanced.
The amount of Sorcery Points should be 2 per level , recovered on long rest, or 1 per level recovered on short rest. Giving them 4 per level, is just too much and renders the whole point of having them useless.
Expert Arcana does not make sense, just because they can fire spells doesn't mean they understand, intellectually, all of magic. They'e not wizards.
At-will (not passive) Detect Magic I am fine with.
Definitely don't let them know all spells or make them another "prepare per day" type like a Cleric or Druid. They're "powers" their origin gives them. The standard 15 from progress and to use Origin Spells like Aberrant Mind and Clockwork are doing is good, which does end up giving 25, but 10 are set and 15 have limited changes because these are innate powers not learned.
Giving metamagic/spell slots to teammates is too much. However, using a reaction and some sorc points to enhance or reduce a spell's effectiveness would be neat.
Twin Spell on everything would be insanely overpowered and rather extreme. 3 Sorc Points to cast two Fireballs a turn? Yeah, OP. Way OP. Twin Spell is perfectly balanced as it is.
The Sorc Spell list is fine, the Origin Spells can give the option of spells from other classes as part of the subclass theme.
Converting spells is just nope, again, they are not Wizards, let's not try to play them as such.
I don't know what you mean by "required long rest on sorcerer subclass spells". Having extra spells cast, without slots, once per day seems fine and reasonable especially if they're higher level. Or my guess on what you mean is wrong.
I do agree with using spell points instead of spell components. I loathe material components and it makes no sense for a sorc to need wands or fleece or such stuff. "I have fire in my blood, a dragon for a soul, I can unleash grand fireballs to incinerate my enemies - just as soon as I find some batshit."
I have my own ideas for fixes but my lunch break is nearly over - I'll return after work if I remember.
I agree with your ideas on most of what you said but if a warlock can cast spells as cantrips then I don't see why a sorcerer can't twin an AOE spell, and the spells on a long rest was a misunderstanding on my part because I had just woke up and forgot to check the Sorcerer subclasses. And what I meant but forgot to clarify about the spell conversion was something along the lines of sorcerers being able to learn a limited list of other class spells of around 5 spells, I think that Sorcerers should get more spells known and earlier on so they don't get to repetitive.
I also think that main spell caster classes in general should have either advantage on Arcana checks or should have a natural detect magic even if it isn't passive. I think that sorcerers should more subclass spells if they shouldn't get more spells known, I mean look at Tempestuous Magic from the Storm Sorcerer subclass or Draconic Resilience from the Draconic Sorcerer subclass, if they had more subclass spells like those and you'd cast them with sorcerery points or with a bonus action or just natural effects, and you'd earn another subclass spell at 3rd level and another at 9th and 12th level. I'd hope to see your ideas for a fix/buff for the Sorcerer class at some point.
I agree with your ideas on most of what you said but if a warlock can cast spells as cantrips then I don't see why a sorcerer can't twin an AOE spell,
What exactly do you mean by that? There are certain 1st/2nd level Spells that Warlocks can cast at will, but they are very limited really.
The whole balance of the Warlock class and the reason they have a measly 4 spell slots at max level is build around the idea that their Invocations, Arcana, etc are very useful and powerful, as are cantrips they have like Eldritch Blast.
Warlocks have a few spells that they get at-will as class features - which is awesome - and they can be decent manipulators of the battlefield, but as a trade-off they will:
1.) Never have the same damage peak and nova ability of a sorcerer 2.) Never have the same consistent per-round damage as a full martial class 3.) Never have the versatility and battlefield control a Wizard has
Its a bit tarde off.
There are split opinions of course, but in my opinion the sorcerer has advantages there. Just trying to give the sorcerer more at-will sorcery or short-rest recovery of spell slots calls into question the balance of some other classes, the Warlock included. It would make the Warlock mechanically inferior in every way, so the only reason people would still play the class is lore potential.
I agree with your ideas on most of what you said but if a warlock can cast spells as cantrips then I don't see why a sorcerer can't twin an AOE spell, and the spells on a long rest was a misunderstanding on my part because I had just woke up and forgot to check the Sorcerer subclasses. And what I meant but forgot to clarify about the spell conversion was something along the lines of sorcerers being able to learn a limited list of other class spells of around 5 spells, I think that Sorcerers should get more spells known and earlier on so they don't get to repetitive.
I also think that main spell caster classes in general should have either advantage on Arcana checks or should have a natural detect magic even if it isn't passive. I think that sorcerers should more subclass spells if they shouldn't get more spells known, I mean look at Tempestuous Magic from the Storm Sorcerer subclass or Draconic Resilience from the Draconic Sorcerer subclass, if they had more subclass spells like those and you'd cast them with sorcerery points or with a bonus action or just natural effects, and you'd earn another subclass spell at 3rd level and another at 9th and 12th level. I'd hope to see your ideas for a fix/buff for the Sorcerer class at some point.
The learning other spells thing I covered with the idea of Origin spells which WotC seem to be implementing. Origin spells are spells that the character automatically learns at certain levels that are thematic to the Origin - they are "in addition" to the normal spells known, cannot be changed, and you get 2 every odd level from 1st to 9th. so that is 2 at 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th and 9th level which makes 10 extra spells. These spells may be from other class lists but will count as a Sorcerer spell for that character. This does what you want in adding spells, getting spells from outside the Sorcerer spell list and such.
This, and couple extra metamagic more spread out is really all the Sorc need. Sorcs are subpar - but not by that much.
Twin Spell is a very powerful metamagic already. Being able to twin spell AOEs would be the most powerful class feature ever presented.
--
I would go with Origin spells.
I'd allow Origin spells to be cast at base level using Sorcery points equal to spell level.
Ignore no-cost material components for any spell cast.
Can choose to cast using only a Somatic component or a Verbal component instead of whatever Verbal/Somatic components the spell normally requires.
Subtle spell metamagic reduced to 1 sorcery point.
New metamagic - eschew materials, can spend sorcery points when casting a spell requiring costly material components to reduce the cost at a rate of 20 gp per sorc point spent. Can be combined with other metamagic.
Can cast Detect Magic at-will.
Arcane Recovery: on short can recover Sorcery Points equal to half the class level rounded up. Once used cannot use again until long rest.
20th level Capstone - remove the current one and replace with this new feature: Choose one 1st level spell known and a known spell that is 1st or 2nd level. These spells can now be cast at base level without needing spell slots.
This sounds pretty nice. But my initial question remsins in that regard. How exactly are extra spells known and at-will casts not pretty much the same thing Warlocks get? What would, after these suggested changes - for you as a player - even be a real reason to ever pick Warlock (aside from flavor), if tge Sorcerer gets almost the same benefits but none of the drawbacks?
This sounds pretty nice. But my initial question remsins in that regard. How exactly are extra spells known and at-will casts not pretty much the same thing Warlocks get? What would, after these suggested changes - for you as a player - even be a real reason to ever pick Warlock (aside from flavor), if tge Sorcerer gets almost the same benefits but none of the drawbacks?
Origin spells aren't my personal fix, it's something WotC are doing, and what Pathfinder already do.
As for why to take warlock over sorcerer - invisible imp familiar that can see/speak your words anywhere on the same plane, be cantrip-happy, hexblade with seeing through magical darkness, lots of at-will spellcasting, at-will invisibility, seeing through walls like you have x-ray vision, creating spectral minions from an enemy you killed, sending enemies through Hell.
By the gods, loads of reasons to consider Warlock over Sorcerer. Even with suggested features they'll play completely different.
The biggest problem with sorcerers is solved by adding bloodline spells. I'd /like/ to see more metamagic options, but other than that sorcs are pretty solid.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
The biggest problem with sorcerers is solved by adding bloodline spells. I'd /like/ to see more metamagic options, but other than that sorcs are pretty solid.
I disagree much of the problem stems from not being able to use their class features enough and they get very few features as well so they get burned on both ends.
My suggestion is the following:
Font of Magic: add that on a short rest a sorcerer can recover sorcery points equal to the highest level spell slot they can cast.
Metamagic: 2 at 3rd then learn another at 8th, 13th, and 18th level
Also the sorcerer may spend their reaction to apply a metamagic option they know to another spell they can see.
ASI: Rogue progression so add an additional one at 10th level
Capstone is replaced with the ability to cast their 1st through 3rd level spells without expending a spell slot.
Everyone here is talking about origin spells, but heres the thing. All origins with spells, are UA. As a DM, I don't allow UA, and as a player, I would never pull UA on my DM. So where does that leave the PHB / Xanathar's origins? Are they just invalidated? Because, the main balance of the sorc, is that, yes it has metamagic, but your cap is 15 spells. But now, all of a sudden, WHATS THIS? Origin spells? None of the handbook origins have those! Aw boo hoo, cry me a fukin river. It throws off the main balance mechanic of the sorcerer. Are origins like draconic bloodline still good? YES. Passive mage armor and extra HP is broken. Plus wings at lvl 14? What was WotC thinking? But oops, what's this? Aberrant Mind has passive mage armor too? AND origin spells? And considering the fact that who the f*** plays a campaign up to lvl 14, Aberrant Mind kind of invalidates DB. In conclusion, screw UA, the sorcerer needs more spells (not too many more), metamagic is broken (its power is only rivaled by Devine Intervention), and if UA gets origin spells, then so should the PHB and Xanathar's ones.
Honestly, everyone here is overcomplicating what should be a relatively simple fix. First you identify the three problems that plagued the class from the start. lack of endurance, lack of flexibility and flexibility is supposed to be what the class is all about, and an underwhelming capstone.
The first two can be addressed at the same time, but we need to take care of the last one first. so we get rid of the capstone ability at level 20. It is an inferior version of something wizards get at level 18. We replace it with a new ability that reduces the cost of all metamagic applied to spells of second level or lower. So all the metamagic on cantrips, 1st level spells, and 2nd level spells is reduced by 2. So there's really only one metamagic thing that costs anything anymore when using your low-level stuff. At level 20, this makes the bread-and-butter spells and basic combat much more flexible and useful.
Now to solve the first two problems at the same time. can we do this with a two-pronged approach. Firstly we specify that a sorcerer can only convert sorcerer spell slots into sorcery points. This nerfs the coffeelock / cocainelock build. Which is fine, since the second prong of this solution renders it redundant anyway. We simply give the sorcerer the ability to restore free sorcery points for a short rest. You clock that in around level 3 or so, 5 at the most, and suddenly sorcerers don't have to be stingy with their points anymore. They can actually use metamagic instead of hoarding their sorcery points to convert for more spells because they're going to run out faster than anyone else. This gives the same kind of all-day endurance to the sorcerer that the warlock enjoys. As long as he gets breaks in between fights, he can keep up with the rest of the party. Which is fine since most of the party takes a break between fights anyway.
And that's it. these three little alterations completely fix all the problems with the core class without making them unplayablely complicated for new players or excessively powerful so that they aren't overshadowing everyone else.
I've made what I consider to be a fix for the sorcerer class in 5th edition, and I made it from the complaints that I've from people.
They would get meta magic every 2 levels and give them 4 sorcery points per level and give them expertise on Arcana and passive detect magic, give them the ability to know their whole spell list but only let them have up to a max of 25 available spells and allow them to regain 2 sorcery points on a short rest. As a support option you can give your team mates meta magic abilities or an extra spell slot, and as a not so support ability allow twin spell to work on every spell that a sorcerer can cast and expand their spell list, you could also or give them the ability to convert spells to their list from other spell lists, and get rid of the required long rest on the sorcerer subclass spells. Sorcery points could also be used as a substitute for spell components.
Tell me your criticisms and ideas you have I'm eager to hear of other peoples ideas and how they might fix/buff the sorcerer class.
Metamagic I think would be better to start at 3 (2 options) then gain 1 more every 4 levels. This will result in steadier progression and 6 metamagics instead of 4, which is more balanced.
The amount of Sorcery Points should be 2 per level , recovered on long rest, or 1 per level recovered on short rest. Giving them 4 per level, is just too much and renders the whole point of having them useless.
Expert Arcana does not make sense, just because they can fire spells doesn't mean they understand, intellectually, all of magic. They'e not wizards.
At-will (not passive) Detect Magic I am fine with.
Definitely don't let them know all spells or make them another "prepare per day" type like a Cleric or Druid. They're "powers" their origin gives them. The standard 15 from progress and to use Origin Spells like Aberrant Mind and Clockwork are doing is good, which does end up giving 25, but 10 are set and 15 have limited changes because these are innate powers not learned.
Giving metamagic/spell slots to teammates is too much. However, using a reaction and some sorc points to enhance or reduce a spell's effectiveness would be neat.
Twin Spell on everything would be insanely overpowered and rather extreme. 3 Sorc Points to cast two Fireballs a turn? Yeah, OP. Way OP. Twin Spell is perfectly balanced as it is.
The Sorc Spell list is fine, the Origin Spells can give the option of spells from other classes as part of the subclass theme.
Converting spells is just nope, again, they are not Wizards, let's not try to play them as such.
I don't know what you mean by "required long rest on sorcerer subclass spells". Having extra spells cast, without slots, once per day seems fine and reasonable especially if they're higher level. Or my guess on what you mean is wrong.
I do agree with using spell points instead of spell components. I loathe material components and it makes no sense for a sorc to need wands or fleece or such stuff. "I have fire in my blood, a dragon for a soul, I can unleash grand fireballs to incinerate my enemies - just as soon as I find some batshit."
I have my own ideas for fixes but my lunch break is nearly over - I'll return after work if I remember.
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Need help with Homebrew? Check out this FAQ/Guide thread by IamSposta
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I agree with your ideas on most of what you said but if a warlock can cast spells as cantrips then I don't see why a sorcerer can't twin an AOE spell, and the spells on a long rest was a misunderstanding on my part because I had just woke up and forgot to check the Sorcerer subclasses. And what I meant but forgot to clarify about the spell conversion was something along the lines of sorcerers being able to learn a limited list of other class spells of around 5 spells, I think that Sorcerers should get more spells known and earlier on so they don't get to repetitive.
I also think that main spell caster classes in general should have either advantage on Arcana checks or should have a natural detect magic even if it isn't passive. I think that sorcerers should more subclass spells if they shouldn't get more spells known, I mean look at Tempestuous Magic from the Storm Sorcerer subclass or Draconic Resilience from the Draconic Sorcerer subclass, if they had more subclass spells like those and you'd cast them with sorcerery points or with a bonus action or just natural effects, and you'd earn another subclass spell at 3rd level and another at 9th and 12th level. I'd hope to see your ideas for a fix/buff for the Sorcerer class at some point.
What exactly do you mean by that?
There are certain 1st/2nd level Spells that Warlocks can cast at will, but they are very limited really.
The whole balance of the Warlock class and the reason they have a measly 4 spell slots at max level is build around the idea that their Invocations, Arcana, etc are very useful and powerful, as are cantrips they have like Eldritch Blast.
Warlocks have a few spells that they get at-will as class features - which is awesome - and they can be decent manipulators of the battlefield, but as a trade-off they will:
1.) Never have the same damage peak and nova ability of a sorcerer
2.) Never have the same consistent per-round damage as a full martial class
3.) Never have the versatility and battlefield control a Wizard has
Its a bit tarde off.
There are split opinions of course, but in my opinion the sorcerer has advantages there. Just trying to give the sorcerer more at-will sorcery or short-rest recovery of spell slots calls into question the balance of some other classes, the Warlock included. It would make the Warlock mechanically inferior in every way, so the only reason people would still play the class is lore potential.
The learning other spells thing I covered with the idea of Origin spells which WotC seem to be implementing. Origin spells are spells that the character automatically learns at certain levels that are thematic to the Origin - they are "in addition" to the normal spells known, cannot be changed, and you get 2 every odd level from 1st to 9th. so that is 2 at 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th and 9th level which makes 10 extra spells. These spells may be from other class lists but will count as a Sorcerer spell for that character. This does what you want in adding spells, getting spells from outside the Sorcerer spell list and such.
This, and couple extra metamagic more spread out is really all the Sorc need. Sorcs are subpar - but not by that much.
Twin Spell is a very powerful metamagic already. Being able to twin spell AOEs would be the most powerful class feature ever presented.
--
I would go with Origin spells.
I'd allow Origin spells to be cast at base level using Sorcery points equal to spell level.
Ignore no-cost material components for any spell cast.
Can choose to cast using only a Somatic component or a Verbal component instead of whatever Verbal/Somatic components the spell normally requires.
Subtle spell metamagic reduced to 1 sorcery point.
New metamagic - eschew materials, can spend sorcery points when casting a spell requiring costly material components to reduce the cost at a rate of 20 gp per sorc point spent. Can be combined with other metamagic.
Can cast Detect Magic at-will.
Arcane Recovery: on short can recover Sorcery Points equal to half the class level rounded up. Once used cannot use again until long rest.
20th level Capstone - remove the current one and replace with this new feature: Choose one 1st level spell known and a known spell that is 1st or 2nd level. These spells can now be cast at base level without needing spell slots.
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This sounds pretty nice. But my initial question remsins in that regard. How exactly are extra spells known and at-will casts not pretty much the same thing Warlocks get? What would, after these suggested changes - for you as a player - even be a real reason to ever pick Warlock (aside from flavor), if tge Sorcerer gets almost the same benefits but none of the drawbacks?
Origin spells aren't my personal fix, it's something WotC are doing, and what Pathfinder already do.
As for why to take warlock over sorcerer - invisible imp familiar that can see/speak your words anywhere on the same plane, be cantrip-happy, hexblade with seeing through magical darkness, lots of at-will spellcasting, at-will invisibility, seeing through walls like you have x-ray vision, creating spectral minions from an enemy you killed, sending enemies through Hell.
By the gods, loads of reasons to consider Warlock over Sorcerer. Even with suggested features they'll play completely different.
My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Spells | Magic Items | Feats
Need help with Homebrew? Check out this FAQ/Guide thread by IamSposta
See My Youtube Videos for Tips & Tricks using D&D Beyond
The biggest problem with sorcerers is solved by adding bloodline spells. I'd /like/ to see more metamagic options, but other than that sorcs are pretty solid.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I disagree much of the problem stems from not being able to use their class features enough and they get very few features as well so they get burned on both ends.
My suggestion is the following:
Font of Magic: add that on a short rest a sorcerer can recover sorcery points equal to the highest level spell slot they can cast.
Metamagic: 2 at 3rd then learn another at 8th, 13th, and 18th level
Also the sorcerer may spend their reaction to apply a metamagic option they know to another spell they can see.
ASI: Rogue progression so add an additional one at 10th level
Capstone is replaced with the ability to cast their 1st through 3rd level spells without expending a spell slot.
Everyone here is talking about origin spells, but heres the thing. All origins with spells, are UA. As a DM, I don't allow UA, and as a player, I would never pull UA on my DM. So where does that leave the PHB / Xanathar's origins? Are they just invalidated? Because, the main balance of the sorc, is that, yes it has metamagic, but your cap is 15 spells. But now, all of a sudden, WHATS THIS? Origin spells? None of the handbook origins have those! Aw boo hoo, cry me a fukin river. It throws off the main balance mechanic of the sorcerer. Are origins like draconic bloodline still good? YES. Passive mage armor and extra HP is broken. Plus wings at lvl 14? What was WotC thinking? But oops, what's this? Aberrant Mind has passive mage armor too? AND origin spells? And considering the fact that who the f*** plays a campaign up to lvl 14, Aberrant Mind kind of invalidates DB. In conclusion, screw UA, the sorcerer needs more spells (not too many more), metamagic is broken (its power is only rivaled by Devine Intervention), and if UA gets origin spells, then so should the PHB and Xanathar's ones.
Honestly, everyone here is overcomplicating what should be a relatively simple fix. First you identify the three problems that plagued the class from the start. lack of endurance, lack of flexibility and flexibility is supposed to be what the class is all about, and an underwhelming capstone.
The first two can be addressed at the same time, but we need to take care of the last one first. so we get rid of the capstone ability at level 20. It is an inferior version of something wizards get at level 18. We replace it with a new ability that reduces the cost of all metamagic applied to spells of second level or lower. So all the metamagic on cantrips, 1st level spells, and 2nd level spells is reduced by 2. So there's really only one metamagic thing that costs anything anymore when using your low-level stuff. At level 20, this makes the bread-and-butter spells and basic combat much more flexible and useful.
Now to solve the first two problems at the same time. can we do this with a two-pronged approach. Firstly we specify that a sorcerer can only convert sorcerer spell slots into sorcery points. This nerfs the coffeelock / cocainelock build. Which is fine, since the second prong of this solution renders it redundant anyway. We simply give the sorcerer the ability to restore free sorcery points for a short rest. You clock that in around level 3 or so, 5 at the most, and suddenly sorcerers don't have to be stingy with their points anymore. They can actually use metamagic instead of hoarding their sorcery points to convert for more spells because they're going to run out faster than anyone else. This gives the same kind of all-day endurance to the sorcerer that the warlock enjoys. As long as he gets breaks in between fights, he can keep up with the rest of the party. Which is fine since most of the party takes a break between fights anyway.
And that's it. these three little alterations completely fix all the problems with the core class without making them unplayablely complicated for new players or excessively powerful so that they aren't overshadowing everyone else.