I haven’t had a chance to play a sorcerer but was wondering what are people’s favorite metamagic combos.
I would think Twinned spell and quicken spell are popular so I can see people using twinned Haste or Hold Person/Monster for twinned. Or quickened Fireball and a cantrip or Hypnotic Pattern and a cantrip. But what else do you use?
Especially interested what other metamagic gets used and how
If you are choosing your first two metamagics you can never go wrong with Twinned but keep in mind that it gets more expensive sorcery point wise if you attempt to twin higher level spells. I find Quicken to be better at high levels - say 11 when your cantrips can really do some damage. Also you can take Sunbeam which is helpful.
Subtle is another good option because it is low cost but great for counterspell and casting a spell on the king without anyone knowing you are doing it. I like Heighten. It's expensive at lower levels but being able to force disadvantage on an enemy can be very helpful. I've used it with Banishment and Polymorph to great effect.
As far as the others, YMMV. A lot of Divine Souls like Distant because you can cast touch healing spells while possible staying out of melee. Empowered can be used with another Metamagic to reroll damage dice which is nice. Careful is good if you want to cast a fireball and not immolate your party.
What works for you depends a lot on your subclass, what type of sorcerer you want to be - control, support, damage - and the spells you take. You can't twin a fireball or other area of effect spells so if you are planning to take a lot of those,Twinned might not be helpful.
Thanks for the reminder. I hadn’t been thinking of metamagic stacking, maybe my title was poorly worded, but thinking more of good spell/metamagic combinations.
Mainly I was looking at Twinned and Quickened since they allow you to cast two 1 action spells or the same single target spell on two targets.
With quickened, are there good debuff/attack spell combos that work well? I was thinking at low level, quicken bane and follow with a cantrip that is a save spell like frostbite or toll the dead (for divine soul sorcerer) where the target subtracts 1d4 from their save roll.
Cast "Shocking Grasp"...you get advantage, and can crit the hit.
Subtle Metamagic spells that would otherwise give you away...as someone pointed out, doing that with "Detect Thoughts" means you can read minds without the target knowing...as you can with "Suggestion" or "Geas".
At high levels, you can't really beat Twinned "Disintegrate".
The Distant Metamagic can allow you to "Shocking Grasp", "Inflict Wounds", "Vampiric Grasp" or "Bestow Curse" at a distance of 30ft...not too shabby if you want a pseudo-melee spellcaster.
I hadn’t thought about quickening Hold person but that’s a good idea. I could also see comboing it with fire bolt or, for a divine soul sorcerer I have in mind, sacred flame as there is no “to hit” needed, just a Dex save which they automatically fail.
though I don’t think save spells crit so guess it’s not the best tactic
My sorcerer is a divine soul. Twinning Guiding Bolt is my favorite thing to do. It's low cost and I can usually hit at least one target. Twinning Toll the Dead is also fun.
I have quickened spells and then cast Mind Sliver (it's an intelligence save which most creatures fail, causes 1d6 damage on a failed save and the first time it makes a saving throw before the end of your next turn it has to roll a d4 and subtract then number rolled from the save).
My sorcerer is a divine soul. Twinning Guiding Bolt is my favorite thing to do. It's low cost and I can usually hit at least one target. Twinning Toll the Dead is also fun.
I have quickened spells and then cast Mind Sliver (it's an intelligence save which most creatures fail, causes 1d6 damage on a failed save and the first time it makes a saving throw before the end of your next turn it has to roll a d4 and subtract then number rolled from the save).
Mind sliver is a good idea so you can follow it up with a save spell the next turn. Although it being UA I wouldn’t be able to use it. Wonder if Tasha’s will have it and if so if it’s unchanged.
Action: cast eldritch blast (subtle it and if low roll empower it) meta count: 3 (if empowered)
when you hit with a blast and hex procs empower it (meta count now: 4)
So, based one hit (from how its worded it appears you can hold off on using the eb subtle/empower till after your 2nd blast hits which is great for crit fishing, but I'll ignore that for now and base it all on initial)
1d10 +5 (AB dmg) + 1d6 hex + 6d6 shard (hex's sublte/empowerment keep in mind this dmg is procc'd just once on first dmg) + 6d6 (EB subtle/ empowered, this dmg could technically be done after all dmg from eb is done from how the shard is worded)
Its dm dependent but quickening mold earth to cast it twice. move the 5ft under an enemy. They don't take damage but they are standing in a hole. Then cast it again to fill in the hole. dm's then have to decide if they are suffocating or their head is sticking out (like at the beach). Probably the dm will have them make an athletics check to dig themselves out hopefully wasting a turn or two.
Just thought I'd add this: "You can use only one Metamagic option on a spell when you cast it, unless otherwise noted." -Empowered and Seeking are both noted as being able to be used in addition to other metamagic options.
-The sage advice for not being able to twin chaos bolt has been taken down. (as far as I can tell)
-It's up to DM interpretations but to me is seems like this means Sorcs now have a really good, class signature combo of being able to twin/empower their Chaos Bolt, allowing 2 bolts, that you can re-roll d8s on to try to get more jumps. It's kind of perfect, it fits the class flavor really well using all stuff the make them a unique as a class at the same time. It just feels untrained kind of random and kind of wild magicy.
A bit of general advice: Try to think of it as one metamagic you use and one backup/clutch metamagic for certain situations, otherwise you risk blasting through your sorc points (especially at low levels) and you don't get them back till a long rest.
For your main meta you can't go wrong with Quickened, but don't think of it as just being able to cast twice in one round (Spell+cantrip) instead think of it as freeing up your action for something else (Dodge, disengage, dash, drink potion, shoot crossbow, pull a lever etc) and using you bonus action for your spell. My DM use to smile when he knew my dragon sorc was going to take the pressure of my party by standing in the middle of a room, throwing insults at the mobs to gain aggro, fling a fireball and then taking the dodge action (disadvantage any attack roll against me till my next turn), with shield at the ready.
As for your backup meta a case can be made for any of them and it comes down to how you are going to play your char. Eg, A heavy hitter might like Empowered for when a high damage roll can be clutch. A face might like Subtle Spell to combine with enhanced ability - charisma, so they can walk around with advantage on all charisma checks without anyone ever knowing. (Sidenote: The main damage dealing spells to twin mentioned above come later, so you can delay that for lvl 10 when you have the spells and more sorc points).
Also don't undervalue True Strike as a cantrip - cast normal spell, quicken True Strike as a bonus and next round you've setup your big hitting spell with advantage to the attack roll.
Bottom line any of the meta's can be useful, it just depends on how you are going to play your sorc.
As a wild magic sorcerer ask your DM to let you wild magic surge as much as possible. Use tides of chaos to do some random thing before battle. When in battle, follow this strategy,
Cast a your highest or second highest level spell slot (If below 3rd level use 1st level spells.) Wild magic surge happens doing some random thing. The cast a quickened cantrip, and use tides of chaos on it. Repeat.
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When players get creative.
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I haven’t had a chance to play a sorcerer but was wondering what are people’s favorite metamagic combos.
I would think Twinned spell and quicken spell are popular so I can see people using twinned Haste or Hold Person/Monster for twinned. Or quickened Fireball and a cantrip or Hypnotic Pattern and a cantrip. But what else do you use?
Especially interested what other metamagic gets used and how
thanks, from a wannabe sorcerer player
remember metamagic doesnt stack
I am leader of the yep cult:https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/off-topic/adohands-kitchen/82135-yep-cult Pronouns are she/her
If you are choosing your first two metamagics you can never go wrong with Twinned but keep in mind that it gets more expensive sorcery point wise if you attempt to twin higher level spells. I find Quicken to be better at high levels - say 11 when your cantrips can really do some damage. Also you can take Sunbeam which is helpful.
Subtle is another good option because it is low cost but great for counterspell and casting a spell on the king without anyone knowing you are doing it. I like Heighten. It's expensive at lower levels but being able to force disadvantage on an enemy can be very helpful. I've used it with Banishment and Polymorph to great effect.
As far as the others, YMMV. A lot of Divine Souls like Distant because you can cast touch healing spells while possible staying out of melee. Empowered can be used with another Metamagic to reroll damage dice which is nice. Careful is good if you want to cast a fireball and not immolate your party.
What works for you depends a lot on your subclass, what type of sorcerer you want to be - control, support, damage - and the spells you take. You can't twin a fireball or other area of effect spells so if you are planning to take a lot of those,Twinned might not be helpful.
This is a good resource for first time sorcerers.
Thanks for the reminder. I hadn’t been thinking of metamagic stacking, maybe my title was poorly worded, but thinking more of good spell/metamagic combinations.
Mainly I was looking at Twinned and Quickened since they allow you to cast two 1 action spells or the same single target spell on two targets.
With quickened, are there good debuff/attack spell combos that work well? I was thinking at low level, quicken bane and follow with a cantrip that is a save spell like frostbite or toll the dead (for divine soul sorcerer) where the target subtracts 1d4 from their save roll.
If you're divine soul, you can twin contagion from cleric spell list. Combo with hold spell. Lvl 1 inflict wounds would do 12d10
Quick blade ward for defense
Quick hold + shocking grasp
Heightened Subtle Detect Thoughts
Quicken "Hold Person" to immobilize the target.
Cast "Shocking Grasp"...you get advantage, and can crit the hit.
Subtle Metamagic spells that would otherwise give you away...as someone pointed out, doing that with "Detect Thoughts" means you can read minds without the target knowing...as you can with "Suggestion" or "Geas".
At high levels, you can't really beat Twinned "Disintegrate".
The Distant Metamagic can allow you to "Shocking Grasp", "Inflict Wounds", "Vampiric Grasp" or "Bestow Curse" at a distance of 30ft...not too shabby if you want a pseudo-melee spellcaster.
I hadn’t thought about quickening Hold person but that’s a good idea. I could also see comboing it with fire bolt or, for a divine soul sorcerer I have in mind, sacred flame as there is no “to hit” needed, just a Dex save which they automatically fail.
though I don’t think save spells crit so guess it’s not the best tactic
My sorcerer is a divine soul. Twinning Guiding Bolt is my favorite thing to do. It's low cost and I can usually hit at least one target. Twinning Toll the Dead is also fun.
I have quickened spells and then cast Mind Sliver (it's an intelligence save which most creatures fail, causes 1d6 damage on a failed save and the first time it makes a saving throw before the end of your next turn it has to roll a d4 and subtract then number rolled from the save).
Mind sliver is a good idea so you can follow it up with a save spell the next turn. Although it being UA I wouldn’t be able to use it. Wonder if Tasha’s will have it and if so if it’s unchanged.
I use Subtle Suggestion on shop keepers that resist my attempts at haggling to get a discount.
I am honestly amazed why no one seems to ever mention the all-powerful Twinned Blight / Disintegrate. 16d8 Necrotic anybody?
Also, many Cantrips can be Twinned to be very strong, such as Fire Bolt, for 8d10 damage.
EDIT: Sorry Tony1Abode, I didn't see your reply before I posted this. Twinned Disintegrate rocks!
Twinned Blight is awesome.
Pew pew! ; )
-outer realm shard (evil variant) item
- any sorc (ex lvl 5 for this)
-2lvl in hexblade (take agonizing blast)
BA: cast hex (subtle it) meta count:1
Action: cast eldritch blast (subtle it and if low roll empower it) meta count: 3 (if empowered)
when you hit with a blast and hex procs empower it (meta count now: 4)
So, based one hit (from how its worded it appears you can hold off on using the eb subtle/empower till after your 2nd blast hits which is great for crit fishing, but I'll ignore that for now and base it all on initial)
1d10 +5 (AB dmg) + 1d6 hex + 6d6 shard (hex's sublte/empowerment keep in mind this dmg is procc'd just once on first dmg) + 6d6 (EB subtle/ empowered, this dmg could technically be done after all dmg from eb is done from how the shard is worded)
so total would be for the turn
2d10+10+ 14d6 (the sublte/empower and hex die)
not to shabby for a cantrip and 4 sorc points XD
Its dm dependent but quickening mold earth to cast it twice. move the 5ft under an enemy. They don't take damage but they are standing in a hole. Then cast it again to fill in the hole. dm's then have to decide if they are suffocating or their head is sticking out (like at the beach). Probably the dm will have them make an athletics check to dig themselves out hopefully wasting a turn or two.
Just thought I'd add this:
"You can use only one Metamagic option on a spell when you cast it, unless otherwise noted."
-Empowered and Seeking are both noted as being able to be used in addition to other metamagic options.
-The sage advice for not being able to twin chaos bolt has been taken down. (as far as I can tell)
-It's up to DM interpretations but to me is seems like this means Sorcs now have a really good, class signature combo of being able to twin/empower their Chaos Bolt, allowing 2 bolts, that you can re-roll d8s on to try to get more jumps. It's kind of perfect, it fits the class flavor really well using all stuff the make them a unique as a class at the same time. It just feels untrained kind of random and kind of wild magicy.
A bit of general advice: Try to think of it as one metamagic you use and one backup/clutch metamagic for certain situations, otherwise you risk blasting through your sorc points (especially at low levels) and you don't get them back till a long rest.
For your main meta you can't go wrong with Quickened, but don't think of it as just being able to cast twice in one round (Spell+cantrip) instead think of it as freeing up your action for something else (Dodge, disengage, dash, drink potion, shoot crossbow, pull a lever etc) and using you bonus action for your spell. My DM use to smile when he knew my dragon sorc was going to take the pressure of my party by standing in the middle of a room, throwing insults at the mobs to gain aggro, fling a fireball and then taking the dodge action (disadvantage any attack roll against me till my next turn), with shield at the ready.
As for your backup meta a case can be made for any of them and it comes down to how you are going to play your char. Eg, A heavy hitter might like Empowered for when a high damage roll can be clutch. A face might like Subtle Spell to combine with enhanced ability - charisma, so they can walk around with advantage on all charisma checks without anyone ever knowing. (Sidenote: The main damage dealing spells to twin mentioned above come later, so you can delay that for lvl 10 when you have the spells and more sorc points).
Also don't undervalue True Strike as a cantrip - cast normal spell, quicken True Strike as a bonus and next round you've setup your big hitting spell with advantage to the attack roll.
Bottom line any of the meta's can be useful, it just depends on how you are going to play your sorc.
Good luck.
Mind Sliver, Quicken any debuff or control spell. My fav is Blindness for the no concentration.
The wild magic surge machine:
As a wild magic sorcerer ask your DM to let you wild magic surge as much as possible. Use tides of chaos to do some random thing before battle. When in battle, follow this strategy,
Cast a your highest or second highest level spell slot (If below 3rd level use 1st level spells.) Wild magic surge happens doing some random thing. The cast a quickened cantrip, and use tides of chaos on it. Repeat.
When players get creative.