Looked all over the internet for any discussions alluding to this but no luck.
Basically this is what i got:
Chaotic Good Celestial Patron Warlock/Paladin Half Elf Noble Background
Grew up in the life of expectations and requirements, but plagued by a free spirit. In his studies of ancient lore, he uncovered old tomes detailing great heroes who had made a pact with powerful beings of the upper planes in return for great power. He then spent years until he was 21 to uncover the secrets of creating this pact, and when he did, he faked his death(in a laboratory experiment that was blamed on my PCs bastard half brother who would later become a tinkering gunslinger and my best friend/adventuring companion) and took up the life of an adventurer. A few years later he was called to more and more paladinesque deeds to soon find out the pact he had made required him to take up the life of a paladin. Torn between the freedom he craved and the power he had, he reluctantly became took up the life he had unwittingly signed up for and reluctantly completed the ideals of his order becoming a force against evil whilst being encouraged along by the archon who tricked me into taking up this role.
Basically a reluctant paladin who got bored with a simple life. Thinking of a chaotic good patron who serves a lawful good deity that kinda just watches over and pushes me back towards the straight and narrow path. Not really sure how great combat will be but i assume i can play the role of a tanky healer/support that has decent smites that can be used often. Not exactly familiar with the celestial hierarchy so if anyone could explain that id appreciate it.
13 Str
15 Dex
14 Con
11 Int
13 Wis
18 Cha
Any tips/Suggestions all are welcom also sorry for grammer its 1 am lol
I'm not sure which class you want to put more effort into.
Paladin is very level dependant, it's not a great "Dip" class. You need 2 lvls minimum to be worth taking (spells, smite, and fighting style) and it's 5 (extra attack & Find Steed), 6 (Cha too Saves), it 7 (Sub Class Special) to be really good.
You'll want your first lvl in paladin to get thee d10 hp and Heavy Armor. You don't have enough strength to wear plate without encumbrance.
As for Warlock what are you looking to get? It needs at least 2 lvls too get invocations and 3 to get Pact Boon.
Celestial Pact is also very lvl dependant. I have a Celestial Pact and I love it, but the abilities really focuses on lvl.
1st let's you heal as a bonus action. 6th power let's you add Cha to damage for radiant and fire. 10th gives you and your team temp HP.
If you are going paladin what do you plan on being your attack stat? You've got low str and medium dex.
I was hoping I could get my hands on some gauntlets of ogre strength if possible and taking pact of the blade to have the versitility for different damage types (slashing, piercing, etc. depending on the type of monster) until I can eventually grab a holy avenger somewhere down the line then I’ll switch over to the pact of the chain most likely(if I’m allowed to I’m not super sure on the rules of that as I don’t have a PH on me right now)
As for levels I was thinking of pushing lvl 3 warlock then going 5 into Paladin for the attacks then eventually a clean 10/10 split but not super sure how viable that will be as I don’t want to hinder my group in combat whilst I’m the main diplomat outside of combat
Appreciate any feedback, thanks.
also, would the 6th level charisma bonus to radiant damage only apply to spells or also weapon attacks or other radiant damage instances
I played a celestial/paladin, didn’t actually like it that much. But that’s because I played him as a melee enthusiast, instead of a healer. Your idea could go well with the oath of redepmption, though flavor wise idk if that’d work very well.
You don't change your Pact Boon one you have it, just your invocations. If you pick Pact Blade you have Pact Blade.
The 6th lvl feature gives your Resistant to Radiant and your Cha Mod every time you use a Radiant or Fire spell; Divine Favor adds 1d4 radiant damage to all attacks.
How does Pact of the Blade give you versitility in damage types?
Ah, I thought I was allowed to change my pact noon as I could my invocations.
as for the damage, I meant it as the summoned weapon counts as magical for overcoming resistance and I figured that would help out the party in lower levels when not everyone has a magic/silvered weapon
Does the fact that I cannot switch the boon later on make the blade lock less powerful? Or is it still viable deeper into the game?
The role playing aspect was appealing to me but if it’s not super viable I’ll have to talk to my group about it. Would taking more classes in Paladin ease the less melee-heavy part of the kit or is it not enough to balance?
Then I'd say think about how much focus you want on Paladin and what you're trying to get from the 3 main features of Warlock. At lvl 1 Pact Type (Archey/Celestial/Fiend/Old One/Hexblade/Undying) At lvl 2 Invocations At lvl 3 Pact Boon (Blade/Chains/Tome) One of the most common reasons people want to mix Warlock with Paladin is a single level gets 2 cantrips (Eldritch Blast/Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade), 2 spells known (4 people you get 2 from your Pact Type), and 1 spell slot per short rest which can be turned into a Divine Smite or other Spell on-top of whatever features your Pact Type gives.
Pact of the Blades is one of the worst mixes with a full martial class like Paladin because it's designed to let a Warlock become a "fighter" type by getting the Extra Attack with an Evocation and eventually extradamage... but if you already have Extra Attack from Paladin 5, why bother? Aside from getting to "hammer space" your weapon (which can be amazing) it's not that great. It's also not just possible but probable that cantrips can out damage any weapon attack with Extra Attack feature. Chains gives you a lot of good scouting plus the benefits of a Familiar (Adv on 1 attack a round, especially helpful for a Great Weapon Master who wants to take the -5 for the +10 damage) Tome gives you a lot of versatility,. You can help make up for not having a Wizard by getting Ritual Caster, and it can do some unruly combinations.
On the other hand Hexblade seems like a poor choice for multiclassing because you get medium armor, shield, and martial weapons... all things you get from Paladin already. The big benefit is being able to To Hit/Damage with Cha instead of Dex or Str, with a non two handed weapon. The Curse is cool once a short rest because it lets buff your DPS against the Big Bad Guy. Fiend is nice because it's Temp HP everytime you drop a target... which can add up to a lot less damage. Undying is... ok if you have a lot of Undead. Old Ones is weird, but can facilitate communication... it's 1 way communication. Celestial gives you more cantrips and Healing Light. Archfey is a small AoE charmed or frightened... which can just end a fight.
As of right now our party lacks a healer so I was thinking of going about 6 levels into celestial then finishing out with Paladin.
You make a good point with the blade not being as big of a benefit but the chain sounds nice with all the added perks.
With this approach is sentinel a good choice as a feat? I was planning on taking a one handed sword/shield approach for the extra ac because we currently have a samurai in the group who loves his two handed sword.
Depending on your oath, a redepmtpion paladin can be a solid support character, combine it with sentinel and you’ll be healthful Healy tank. Lower damage, but you get heals and area lockdown
Hmm.... that's an interesting conundrum there as the majority of paladins are servants of a Deity already, so how does it work out if an established Warlock "Heeds the call" or an established Paladin "Seals a pact"? Story-wise, it brings up some interesting "Two-Masters" plots-points that would would be kind of criminal not to be used. Even if the pact was with a Celestial servant of the Paladin's Deity, it could still offer the occasional contradictory goal. :)
Hmm.... that's an interesting conundrum there as the majority of paladins are servants of a Deity already, so how does it work out if an established Warlock "Heeds the call" or an established Paladin "Seals a pact"? Story-wise, it brings up some interesting "Two-Masters" plots-points that would would be kind of criminal not to be used. Even if the pact was with a Celestial servant of the Paladin's Deity, it could still offer the occasional contradictory goal. :)
I've never seen a paladin in 5th edition as a servant of a deity, the closest would be a holy order, but most I see are paladins of their oath, which shouldn't contradict any other class
Hmm.... that's an interesting conundrum there as the majority of paladins are servants of a Deity already, so how does it work out if an established Warlock "Heeds the call" or an established Paladin "Seals a pact"? Story-wise, it brings up some interesting "Two-Masters" plots-points that would would be kind of criminal not to be used. Even if the pact was with a Celestial servant of the Paladin's Deity, it could still offer the occasional contradictory goal. :)
I've never seen a paladin in 5th edition as a servant of a deity, the closest would be a holy order, but most I see are paladins of their oath, which shouldn't contradict any other class
Ah... So they're going that route in this ed. I haven't seriously played D&D since the end of 3X, so I'm playing catch up here. :)
Hmm.... that's an interesting conundrum there as the majority of paladins are servants of a Deity already, so how does it work out if an established Warlock "Heeds the call" or an established Paladin "Seals a pact"? Story-wise, it brings up some interesting "Two-Masters" plots-points that would would be kind of criminal not to be used. Even if the pact was with a Celestial servant of the Paladin's Deity, it could still offer the occasional contradictory goal. :)
I've never seen a paladin in 5th edition as a servant of a deity, the closest would be a holy order, but most I see are paladins of their oath, which shouldn't contradict any other class
Ah... So they're going that route in this ed. I haven't seriously played D&D since the end of 3X, so I'm playing catch up here. :)
Yeah I'm actually much happier with this route too. You can totally be a deity's pally, though most people more so follow their oath, which can allow for less Lawful "Stupid" actions. They still follow the lawful path roughly, but no longer limited to Good, which opens it up a lot.
My personal build with this was to use Order of the Ancients and background Knight of the Order(Unicorn) with the order's patron being his warlock patron. Their CD makes them pretty sticky, and their level 7 aura is just delicious.
Hmm.... that's an interesting conundrum there as the majority of paladins are servants of a Deity already, so how does it work out if an established Warlock "Heeds the call" or an established Paladin "Seals a pact"? Story-wise, it brings up some interesting "Two-Masters" plots-points that would would be kind of criminal not to be used. Even if the pact was with a Celestial servant of the Paladin's Deity, it could still offer the occasional contradictory goal. :)
I've never seen a paladin in 5th edition as a servant of a deity, the closest would be a holy order, but most I see are paladins of their oath, which shouldn't contradict any other class
Ah... So they're going that route in this ed. I haven't seriously played D&D since the end of 3X, so I'm playing catch up here. :)
Yeah I'm actually much happier with this route too. You can totally be a deity's pally, though most people more so follow their oath, which can allow for less Lawful "Stupid" actions. They still follow the lawful path roughly, but no longer limited to Good, which opens it up a lot.
That actually reminds me of the Expatriate Paladin kit from the 2e Complete Paladin book. Played one and she was actually my favorite character of the 2e days. Expatriate Paladins are basically failures and/or excommunicated rogues in the eyes of their church or holy order, but their diety is on their side regardless. It allowed for a bit more flexibility of action and choice at the cost of a few of the paladin powers, I forget which.
I could see an expat-style paladin multi-classing with warlock, (it might even what got them booted to begin with, regardless of whom the pact was made with), as they're more flexible that way. Anything beyond that is choosing a starting point and working from there.
Hiyas. I've actually been thinking of dipping into a Celestial Bladepact Warlock, though as a last little bit of flavor for a mainly Order of Crowns Paladin. Sort of a angelic, heavenly blade with a will of its own, either as a sort of boon/gift from his devotion to the Dawnfather, or unexpected spoils from the site of some ancient battle or guarded reliquary.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Working on a supplement for the adventure-minded. A project including (and crediting) homebrew subclasses from the community, a world of my own design, premade characters, magic items, and even a prologue adventure to start things off!
Past and Current Characters: Morgann 'Duskspear' Solbeard, Hill Dwarf Paladin/Fighter/Warlock; Ephemeral 'Skye' Solbeard, Hill Dwarf Artificer; Zaldrick Lawscrip of Orzhov, Hobgoblin Wizard; Eremys Spydrun, Shadar'kai Monk; Cuchulainn, Wood Elf Blood Hunter.
Basically a reluctant paladin who got bored with a simple life. Thinking of a chaotic good patron who serves a lawful good deity that kinda just watches over and pushes me back towards the straight and narrow path. Not really sure how great combat will be but i assume i can play the role of a tanky healer/support that has decent smites that can be used often. Not exactly familiar with the celestial hierarchy so if anyone could explain that id appreciate it.
Hmm quite frankly, maybe it would be best to just go for the simple solution and play the single class that ticks most of your boxes, which would be Cleric. They are tanky, obviously can provide support and spells like Holy Weapon and their Divine Strike ability or Guided Strike from War domain also let them hit decently hard (possibly in addition domain spells like searing smite, elemental weapon, or green flame blade with Arcana domain etc). You also will have full spell progression, so you will always have the most powerful spells available to you and you don't have to wait several levels for your build to come "online" like you have to with multiclassing.
About you hoping to get Gauntlets of Ogre Strength, and just casually picking up a Holy Avenger later, it sounds like you are relying too much on magic items. Does your DM have a shop where your just pick up some Legendary items while you're getting you groceries!?
Try switching your stats around so you can get a +3 to both CHA and STR, it will make your character more viable and less dependent on stumbling across magic items or random manuals that tell you how to make them.
Looked all over the internet for any discussions alluding to this but no luck.
Basically this is what i got:
Chaotic Good Celestial Patron Warlock/Paladin Half Elf Noble Background
Grew up in the life of expectations and requirements, but plagued by a free spirit. In his studies of ancient lore, he uncovered old tomes detailing great heroes who had made a pact with powerful beings of the upper planes in return for great power. He then spent years until he was 21 to uncover the secrets of creating this pact, and when he did, he faked his death(in a laboratory experiment that was blamed on my PCs bastard half brother who would later become a tinkering gunslinger and my best friend/adventuring companion) and took up the life of an adventurer. A few years later he was called to more and more paladinesque deeds to soon find out the pact he had made required him to take up the life of a paladin. Torn between the freedom he craved and the power he had, he reluctantly became took up the life he had unwittingly signed up for and reluctantly completed the ideals of his order becoming a force against evil whilst being encouraged along by the archon who tricked me into taking up this role.
Basically a reluctant paladin who got bored with a simple life. Thinking of a chaotic good patron who serves a lawful good deity that kinda just watches over and pushes me back towards the straight and narrow path. Not really sure how great combat will be but i assume i can play the role of a tanky healer/support that has decent smites that can be used often. Not exactly familiar with the celestial hierarchy so if anyone could explain that id appreciate it.
13 Str
15 Dex
14 Con
11 Int
13 Wis
18 Cha
Any tips/Suggestions all are welcom also sorry for grammer its 1 am lol
I'm not sure which class you want to put more effort into.
Paladin is very level dependant, it's not a great "Dip" class. You need 2 lvls minimum to be worth taking (spells, smite, and fighting style) and it's 5 (extra attack & Find Steed), 6 (Cha too Saves), it 7 (Sub Class Special) to be really good.
You'll want your first lvl in paladin to get thee d10 hp and Heavy Armor. You don't have enough strength to wear plate without encumbrance.
As for Warlock what are you looking to get? It needs at least 2 lvls too get invocations and 3 to get Pact Boon.
Celestial Pact is also very lvl dependant. I have a Celestial Pact and I love it, but the abilities really focuses on lvl.
1st let's you heal as a bonus action. 6th power let's you add Cha to damage for radiant and fire. 10th gives you and your team temp HP.
If you are going paladin what do you plan on being your attack stat? You've got low str and medium dex.
I was hoping I could get my hands on some gauntlets of ogre strength if possible and taking pact of the blade to have the versitility for different damage types (slashing, piercing, etc. depending on the type of monster) until I can eventually grab a holy avenger somewhere down the line then I’ll switch over to the pact of the chain most likely(if I’m allowed to I’m not super sure on the rules of that as I don’t have a PH on me right now)
As for levels I was thinking of pushing lvl 3 warlock then going 5 into Paladin for the attacks then eventually a clean 10/10 split but not super sure how viable that will be as I don’t want to hinder my group in combat whilst I’m the main diplomat outside of combat
Appreciate any feedback, thanks.
also, would the 6th level charisma bonus to radiant damage only apply to spells or also weapon attacks or other radiant damage instances
I played a celestial/paladin, didn’t actually like it that much. But that’s because I played him as a melee enthusiast, instead of a healer. Your idea could go well with the oath of redepmption, though flavor wise idk if that’d work very well.
You don't change your Pact Boon one you have it, just your invocations. If you pick Pact Blade you have Pact Blade.
The 6th lvl feature gives your Resistant to Radiant and your Cha Mod every time you use a Radiant or Fire spell; Divine Favor adds 1d4 radiant damage to all attacks.
How does Pact of the Blade give you versitility in damage types?
Ah, I thought I was allowed to change my pact noon as I could my invocations.
as for the damage, I meant it as the summoned weapon counts as magical for overcoming resistance and I figured that would help out the party in lower levels when not everyone has a magic/silvered weapon
Does the fact that I cannot switch the boon later on make the blade lock less powerful? Or is it still viable deeper into the game?
The role playing aspect was appealing to me but if it’s not super viable I’ll have to talk to my group about it. Would taking more classes in Paladin ease the less melee-heavy part of the kit or is it not enough to balance?
Then I'd say think about how much focus you want on Paladin and what you're trying to get from the 3 main features of Warlock.
At lvl 1 Pact Type (Archey/Celestial/Fiend/Old One/Hexblade/Undying)
At lvl 2 Invocations
At lvl 3 Pact Boon (Blade/Chains/Tome)
One of the most common reasons people want to mix Warlock with Paladin is a single level gets 2 cantrips (Eldritch Blast/Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade), 2 spells known (4 people you get 2 from your Pact Type), and 1 spell slot per short rest which can be turned into a Divine Smite or other Spell on-top of whatever features your Pact Type gives.
Pact of the Blades is one of the worst mixes with a full martial class like Paladin because it's designed to let a Warlock become a "fighter" type by getting the Extra Attack with an Evocation and eventually extradamage... but if you already have Extra Attack from Paladin 5, why bother? Aside from getting to "hammer space" your weapon (which can be amazing) it's not that great. It's also not just possible but probable that cantrips can out damage any weapon attack with Extra Attack feature.
Chains gives you a lot of good scouting plus the benefits of a Familiar (Adv on 1 attack a round, especially helpful for a Great Weapon Master who wants to take the -5 for the +10 damage)
Tome gives you a lot of versatility,. You can help make up for not having a Wizard by getting Ritual Caster, and it can do some unruly combinations.
On the other hand Hexblade seems like a poor choice for multiclassing because you get medium armor, shield, and martial weapons... all things you get from Paladin already. The big benefit is being able to To Hit/Damage with Cha instead of Dex or Str, with a non two handed weapon. The Curse is cool once a short rest because it lets buff your DPS against the Big Bad Guy.
Fiend is nice because it's Temp HP everytime you drop a target... which can add up to a lot less damage.
Undying is... ok if you have a lot of Undead.
Old Ones is weird, but can facilitate communication... it's 1 way communication.
Celestial gives you more cantrips and Healing Light.
Archfey is a small AoE charmed or frightened... which can just end a fight.
As of right now our party lacks a healer so I was thinking of going about 6 levels into celestial then finishing out with Paladin.
You make a good point with the blade not being as big of a benefit but the chain sounds nice with all the added perks.
With this approach is sentinel a good choice as a feat? I was planning on taking a one handed sword/shield approach for the extra ac because we currently have a samurai in the group who loves his two handed sword.
Depending on your oath, a redepmtpion paladin can be a solid support character, combine it with sentinel and you’ll be healthful Healy tank. Lower damage, but you get heals and area lockdown
Hmm.... that's an interesting conundrum there as the majority of paladins are servants of a Deity already, so how does it work out if an established Warlock "Heeds the call" or an established Paladin "Seals a pact"? Story-wise, it brings up some interesting "Two-Masters" plots-points that would would be kind of criminal not to be used. Even if the pact was with a Celestial servant of the Paladin's Deity, it could still offer the occasional contradictory goal. :)
My personal build with this was to use Order of the Ancients and background Knight of the Order(Unicorn) with the order's patron being his warlock patron. Their CD makes them pretty sticky, and their level 7 aura is just delicious.
Hiyas. I've actually been thinking of dipping into a Celestial Bladepact Warlock, though as a last little bit of flavor for a mainly Order of Crowns Paladin. Sort of a angelic, heavenly blade with a will of its own, either as a sort of boon/gift from his devotion to the Dawnfather, or unexpected spoils from the site of some ancient battle or guarded reliquary.
Working on a supplement for the adventure-minded. A project including (and crediting) homebrew subclasses from the community, a world of my own design, premade characters, magic items, and even a prologue adventure to start things off!
Past and Current Characters: Morgann 'Duskspear' Solbeard, Hill Dwarf Paladin/Fighter/Warlock; Ephemeral 'Skye' Solbeard, Hill Dwarf Artificer; Zaldrick Lawscrip of Orzhov, Hobgoblin Wizard; Eremys Spydrun, Shadar'kai Monk; Cuchulainn, Wood Elf Blood Hunter.
Hmm quite frankly, maybe it would be best to just go for the simple solution and play the single class that ticks most of your boxes, which would be Cleric. They are tanky, obviously can provide support and spells like Holy Weapon and their Divine Strike ability or Guided Strike from War domain also let them hit decently hard (possibly in addition domain spells like searing smite, elemental weapon, or green flame blade with Arcana domain etc). You also will have full spell progression, so you will always have the most powerful spells available to you and you don't have to wait several levels for your build to come "online" like you have to with multiclassing.
I'm currently using this build in our curse of strahd campaign, we are going to the amber temple next.
https://ddb.ac/characters/3892747/LGBecM
About you hoping to get Gauntlets of Ogre Strength, and just casually picking up a Holy Avenger later, it sounds like you are relying too much on magic items. Does your DM have a shop where your just pick up some Legendary items while you're getting you groceries!?
Try switching your stats around so you can get a +3 to both CHA and STR, it will make your character more viable and less dependent on stumbling across magic items or random manuals that tell you how to make them.