Right now my Bladelock can call a +1 weapon with improved pact weapon...could be a Ranged or melee weapon depending on as needed. However if I select a magic weapon my option is to only call that weapon only....I could no longer call say a melee weapon if I bonded a +2 Longbow.....
With Pact of the Blade, it seems to open up the limitations - "If you later gain the Pact of the Blade feature, this benefit extends to every pact weapon you conjure with that feature, no matter the weapon’s type."
And, I think you can "bond" to ANY weapon, magical or not. If you bond with a +2 Longbow, and in combat need a Warhammer (because, occasionally, who doesn't...) you stow/shunt into another plane your +2 bow, and call a Warhammer "to your free hand" and use that, with proficiency, and still use your CHA mods... That might take a round, though, or a reaction, or take up your Move part of your turn.
My Hexblade is bonded to a +1 Katana, and uses that for just about every damn thing, because Patron. But, for thematic purposes, carries a human femur that she, when needed, "conjures into a Warhammer" by wrapping shadows around the business end of it until they solidify into a mace-head that looks like solid Obsidian. Still getting me +6 to hit, and 1d10 +4 DAM - instead of +7 to hit 1d10+5 DAM (two-handed for both.)
I think what Burgen_Badluk is pointing out is that with the Pact of the Blade feature, you can create any sort of weapon you want, unless you've bonded with a magic weapon, in which case that's your pact weapon, period. Hexblade patron Hex Warrior allows you to bond with a weapon for certain benefits, and extends those benefits to your pact weapon. But it does not allow you to create pact weapons "out of thin air" if your pact weapon is a magic one you've bonded to (via Pact of the Blade, not via Hex Warrior).
Basically, if you have the Improved Pact Weapon Eldritch Invocation, you can summon a new +1 weapon of any type you wish every time you call on your Pact of the Blade feature. But if you bond with a physical magic weapon (like, say, a Longbow +2), then that's the only weapon you can summon with Pact of the Blade, and that's your only pact weapon. They're pointing out, I think, how you lose flexibility by bonding to a magic weapon, inasmuch you can now only summon that magic weapon as a pact weapon, and can no longer (unless you break that bond) summon up any weapon you wish.
It's a valid point, although I believe that lack of flexibility is offset by the added power of a magic weapon. Also, every weapon-based class suffers from this: once they get a magic weapon, they lose flexibility to gain power. Bladelocks at least have the option to keep their flexibility compared to +1 weapons (because of Improved Pact Weapon).
I guess, then, don't bond with the Longbow +2? Because Hexblade, you're already proficient with it, and because Hex Warrior, you +CHA. Take Improved Pact, and call ANY +1 weapon to your empty hand. This also is +CHA, because Hex Warrior. Or, don't take improved Pact, and skip the +1 stuff, if you've already got the +2 ranged at your disposal.
All you lose by this, is you don't get to poof your bonded Longbow into the Ether... I think.
But, I still think there's wiggle room, because "You can choose the form that this melee weapon takes each time you create it" - but, it does say "You can transform one magic weapon into your pact weapon... You can then dismiss the weapon, shunting it into an extradimensional space, and it appears whenever you create your pact weapon thereafter." The catch is the "create your pact weapon" wording. If it said "your bonded pact weapon..." I think it would be wide open.
The way I see it, and I may be wrong, is that you can always create ANY melee pact weapon, in your empty hand, and get at least +CHA out of it. But, I think you can ALSO bond to a special, magical +x weapon, get +CHA with it, and be able to poof it out of town if you want, and then bamf it right back as needed. Honestly, you're going to have a favorite, magical, Patron-type weapon. This weapon, by all accounts, should over time grow to be better than just about any weapon that you can think of. But, you may for whatever reason need a second weapon, with a different damage type. I think you should be able to conjure a melee weapon (or a +1/ranged one) while still keeping that bond to your special, happy place weapon.
Nothing but my Hexblade's Katana will ever be her "bonded" weapon, and if that means I can't conjure a different weapon when needed, then that seems like a miss.
I guess, then, don't bond with the Longbow +2? Because Hexblade, you're already proficient with it, and because Hex Warrior, you +CHA. Take Improved Pact, and call ANY +1 weapon to your empty hand. This also is +CHA, because Hex Warrior. Or, don't take improved Pact, and skip the +1 stuff, if you've already got the +2 ranged at your disposal.
"Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch one weapon that you are proficient with and that lacks the two-handed property. When you attack with that weapon, you can use your Charisma modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity[...]" Xanathar's Guid to Everything
According to the Hex Warrior description, it does not work with two-handed weapons, such as a Longbow. That restriction is removed if the weapon is your Pact Weapon (created or bonded).
"You can then dismiss the weapon, shunting it into an extradimensional space, and it appears whenever you create your pact weapon thereafter." Player's Handbook
By the Pact of the Blade description, once you bind a magical weapon as your Pact Weapon IT appears whenever you use the feature thereafter. You must intentionally sacrifice the versatility to have the ability to "always" have access to a magic weapon. This is further clarified in this official article from 2016: http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-answers-april-2016
Just to be clear, I do see your point, and you could definitely House Rule things with your DM, but the Rules as Written (and Intended) disagree with you.
So, once you get a magic weapon you'd never really need Improved Pact, right? The +x of the weapon supersedes the bonus of the Invocation. As part of the Pact, you're proficient with anything.
It seems like once you have a magic weapon, and you want the +CHA Hex Warrior bonus, you'd need to Hex Warrior bond to that weapon only. To "channel my will through a particular weapon... to use my Charisma modifier for attack and damage rolls." XGtE
If that becomes you Pact of the Blade weapon, then you are limited to ONLY that weapon being your Pact Weapon, and that's the ONLY one that you can conjure, or dismiss / recall at will.
But, if using the Pact of the Blade, you conjured a regular Warhammer out of thin air, (while sheathing your +1 / +CHA Hex Warrior Longsword, for example - that you HAVE NOT transformed into a Pact Weapon) that Warhammer would NOT be able to be your Hex Warrior weapon, so no +CHA? And, that Warhammer would, for the time being, be your only Pact Weapon. But, since Thirsting Blade (as written) only applies to your Pact Weapon, you would only be able to get a second attack with the Warhammer.
So, you can only get +CHA on one Hex Weapon, and if you Pact Bond with that magical weapon, that's the ONLY weapon you can conjure.
Sounds like any Hexblade - with a magic weapon - who consistently wants to do the best possible damage - including Thirsting Blade - is limited to using ONLY that magic weapon, and bond with it with both Hex Warrior AND Blade Pact.
Not quite. You could have a 1-handed magic weapon be your pact weapon, then a second 1-handed magic weapon be your hex warrior weapon, which would give you all the benefits of pact weapon (including thirsting blade, lifedrinker, etc) on your main hand, all the benefits of hex warrior weapon on your main hand (because "this benefit extends to every pact weapon you conjure with that feature"), plus all the benefits of hex warrior weapon on your off-hand (because that's what you actually bonded with after your long rest). All you're missing is pact weapon benefits on offhand, which isn't that big a deal, since you can't attack twice with your offhand anyway, so basically you're losing one (out of what would be six) +cha to damage.
Everything in the PH Pact of the Blade refers to a singular weapon: a singular pact. It refers to regular weapons, and more detailed info for magical weapons.
It would have been nice for them to have included a giant "AND..." between those two sections, or pluralize "weapon" or "pact" even once. Since they didn't, I have to assume, RAW, that there can only be one Pact, on only one (magical) Weapon.
Hex Warrior is also limited to ONE "particular weapon." It does say that it, with PoB, applies to "every pact weapon you conjure" but - that is also written in the singular.
I think Giacobbo is correct, but obviously House Rules can change things.
Everything in the PH Pact of the Blade refers to a singular weapon: a singular pact. It refers to regular weapons, and more detailed info for magical weapons.
It would have been nice for them to have included a giant "AND..." between those two sections, or pluralize "weapon" or "pact" even once. Since they didn't, I have to assume, RAW, that there can only be one Pact, on only one Weapon.
Hex Warrior is also limited to ONE "particular weapon." It does say that it, with PoB, applies to "every pact weapon you conjure" but - that is also written in the singular.
I think Giacobbo is correct, but obviously House Rules can change things.
That's right, singular. Hex Warrior weapon benefit applies to your hex warrior bonded weapon (in this case, your offhand), and the benefit also applies to your pact weapon (in this case, your main hand). If it didn't, there would be no need to specify that, since you could always just bond (hex warrior bond) with your pact weapon.
I think this gets easier if you try to think of this as two separate things, the Hex Weapon and the Pact Weapon...
You can turn any weapon into your Hex Weapon after a long rest, magical or not.
Your Pact Weapon automatically receives the +Cha bonus if you're a Hexblade.
So, as Tonio said, You can have two weapons with a +Cha attack, your Pact Weapon(summoned/created) and your Hex Weapon (carried).
As for the wording of Hex Warrior, it limits to one Hex Weapon, yes, but the wording says that it extends to your pact weapon, rather than merely "applies".
My question is still: Why make it so complicated? And why make it impossible for a HexOfTheBlade to make a artifact weapon his/her pactblade?
It's complicated because the intent was probably not to have two separate weapons, but rather one weapon. Since Hexblade Patron does not require you to be Pact of the Blade, the benefit can't apply exclusively to your pact weapon, since you might not have one. So there needs to be a separate mechanism that works without, but does not invalidate, pact weapons.
If you decide to wield a single weapon, there's no complication: your pact weapon gets the benefits of Hex Warrior weapons. You can exploit the rules into wielding two weapons with "special" benefits, but while this is allowed, and not unintended, it doesn't appear to be the primary intention.
Regarding artifact weapons, I might be mistaken, buy artifact weapons are not barred, only sentient ones.
Anyway, that link shows the answer to your question: "We prevent it because those items have powers and story weight beyond regular magic items. As always, a DM can override our design."
I take that to mean that a weapon rare and/or powerful enough to be classified as an artifact should not be so easily protected from being stolen or whatever. Which, of course, makes you wonder why Eldritch Knights don't have a similar restriction for their Weapon Bond ability.
Sentient weapons I can understand, since they'd object to being fiddled with in such a way (I don't think the Sword of Kas will be too happy to be sent into an extradimensional space on the Warlock's whim), and are probably powerful enough to resist it. Put another (more game-mechanical) way, they're closer to "creatures" than regular "objects", and it's reasonable that the Pact Weapon feature wouldn't affect them, the same way many spells affect "objects" but not "creatures", or allow "creatures" saving throws but not "objects", etc.
In any case, I think the restriction is artificial and arbitrary, and I'd remove it in any game I'd DM for, although I don't think it'll come up very often. =)
That seems pretty dumb, since you can't double attack - Thirsting Blade is limited to your Pact Weapon.
So is Lifedrinker.
And Eldritch Smite.
And Improved Pact Weapon.
I guess, though, that an Artifact or Sentient Weapon may ALREADY grant you those abilities, but... if your Patron-granted weapon "evolves" into a Sentient Weapon (which seems possible...) then you lose multiple attack with that Patron-granted, super important to the Hexblade weapon. The weapon that is probably the most important thing in their lives - above gold, glory and party.
While I like the idea of the whole blade lock thing I think it one of the more poorly put together set of rules. It is one class to avoid for new players...
While I like the idea of the whole blade lock thing I think it one of the more poorly put together set of rules. It is one class to avoid for new players...
I'd agree, the Warlock class as a whole seems poorly thought out, difficult to play, and not recommended for anyone new to D&D.
And Eldritch Knights can bond with two weapons. I know that, as pointed out earlier here, you can bond with two if you are both Hex and PotB, but why only one as PotB? Especially if you got the improved pact? Quite silly...
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Right now my Bladelock can call a +1 weapon with improved pact weapon...could be a Ranged or melee weapon depending on as needed. However if I select a magic weapon my option is to only call that weapon only....I could no longer call say a melee weapon if I bonded a +2 Longbow.....
With Pact of the Blade, it seems to open up the limitations - "If you later gain the Pact of the Blade feature, this benefit extends to every pact weapon you conjure with that feature, no matter the weapon’s type."
And, I think you can "bond" to ANY weapon, magical or not. If you bond with a +2 Longbow, and in combat need a Warhammer (because, occasionally, who doesn't...) you stow/shunt into another plane your +2 bow, and call a Warhammer "to your free hand" and use that, with proficiency, and still use your CHA mods... That might take a round, though, or a reaction, or take up your Move part of your turn.
My Hexblade is bonded to a +1 Katana, and uses that for just about every damn thing, because Patron. But, for thematic purposes, carries a human femur that she, when needed, "conjures into a Warhammer" by wrapping shadows around the business end of it until they solidify into a mace-head that looks like solid Obsidian. Still getting me +6 to hit, and 1d10 +4 DAM - instead of +7 to hit 1d10+5 DAM (two-handed for both.)
If you are using Improved Pact Weapon you do not need a +1 weapon. Your weapon is automatically +1.
I think what Burgen_Badluk is pointing out is that with the Pact of the Blade feature, you can create any sort of weapon you want, unless you've bonded with a magic weapon, in which case that's your pact weapon, period. Hexblade patron Hex Warrior allows you to bond with a weapon for certain benefits, and extends those benefits to your pact weapon. But it does not allow you to create pact weapons "out of thin air" if your pact weapon is a magic one you've bonded to (via Pact of the Blade, not via Hex Warrior).
Basically, if you have the Improved Pact Weapon Eldritch Invocation, you can summon a new +1 weapon of any type you wish every time you call on your Pact of the Blade feature. But if you bond with a physical magic weapon (like, say, a Longbow +2), then that's the only weapon you can summon with Pact of the Blade, and that's your only pact weapon. They're pointing out, I think, how you lose flexibility by bonding to a magic weapon, inasmuch you can now only summon that magic weapon as a pact weapon, and can no longer (unless you break that bond) summon up any weapon you wish.
It's a valid point, although I believe that lack of flexibility is offset by the added power of a magic weapon. Also, every weapon-based class suffers from this: once they get a magic weapon, they lose flexibility to gain power. Bladelocks at least have the option to keep their flexibility compared to +1 weapons (because of Improved Pact Weapon).
I guess, then, don't bond with the Longbow +2? Because Hexblade, you're already proficient with it, and because Hex Warrior, you +CHA. Take Improved Pact, and call ANY +1 weapon to your empty hand. This also is +CHA, because Hex Warrior. Or, don't take improved Pact, and skip the +1 stuff, if you've already got the +2 ranged at your disposal.
All you lose by this, is you don't get to poof your bonded Longbow into the Ether... I think.
But, I still think there's wiggle room, because "You can choose the form that this melee weapon takes each time you create it" - but, it does say "You can transform one magic weapon into your pact weapon... You can then dismiss the weapon, shunting it into an extradimensional space, and it appears whenever you create your pact weapon thereafter." The catch is the "create your pact weapon" wording. If it said "your bonded pact weapon..." I think it would be wide open.
The way I see it, and I may be wrong, is that you can always create ANY melee pact weapon, in your empty hand, and get at least +CHA out of it. But, I think you can ALSO bond to a special, magical +x weapon, get +CHA with it, and be able to poof it out of town if you want, and then bamf it right back as needed. Honestly, you're going to have a favorite, magical, Patron-type weapon. This weapon, by all accounts, should over time grow to be better than just about any weapon that you can think of. But, you may for whatever reason need a second weapon, with a different damage type. I think you should be able to conjure a melee weapon (or a +1/ranged one) while still keeping that bond to your special, happy place weapon.
Nothing but my Hexblade's Katana will ever be her "bonded" weapon, and if that means I can't conjure a different weapon when needed, then that seems like a miss.
"Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch one weapon that you are proficient with and that lacks the two-handed property. When you attack with that weapon, you can use your Charisma modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity[...]" Xanathar's Guid to Everything
According to the Hex Warrior description, it does not work with two-handed weapons, such as a Longbow. That restriction is removed if the weapon is your Pact Weapon (created or bonded).
"You can then dismiss the weapon, shunting it into an extradimensional space, and it appears whenever you create your pact weapon thereafter." Player's Handbook
By the Pact of the Blade description, once you bind a magical weapon as your Pact Weapon IT appears whenever you use the feature thereafter. You must intentionally sacrifice the versatility to have the ability to "always" have access to a magic weapon. This is further clarified in this official article from 2016: http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-answers-april-2016
Just to be clear, I do see your point, and you could definitely House Rule things with your DM, but the Rules as Written (and Intended) disagree with you.
So, once you get a magic weapon you'd never really need Improved Pact, right? The +x of the weapon supersedes the bonus of the Invocation. As part of the Pact, you're proficient with anything.
It seems like once you have a magic weapon, and you want the +CHA Hex Warrior bonus, you'd need to Hex Warrior bond to that weapon only. To "channel my will through a particular weapon... to use my Charisma modifier for attack and damage rolls." XGtE
If that becomes you Pact of the Blade weapon, then you are limited to ONLY that weapon being your Pact Weapon, and that's the ONLY one that you can conjure, or dismiss / recall at will.
But, if using the Pact of the Blade, you conjured a regular Warhammer out of thin air, (while sheathing your +1 / +CHA Hex Warrior Longsword, for example - that you HAVE NOT transformed into a Pact Weapon) that Warhammer would NOT be able to be your Hex Warrior weapon, so no +CHA? And, that Warhammer would, for the time being, be your only Pact Weapon. But, since Thirsting Blade (as written) only applies to your Pact Weapon, you would only be able to get a second attack with the Warhammer.
So, you can only get +CHA on one Hex Weapon, and if you Pact Bond with that magical weapon, that's the ONLY weapon you can conjure.
Sounds like any Hexblade - with a magic weapon - who consistently wants to do the best possible damage - including Thirsting Blade - is limited to using ONLY that magic weapon, and bond with it with both Hex Warrior AND Blade Pact.
Not quite. You could have a 1-handed magic weapon be your pact weapon, then a second 1-handed magic weapon be your hex warrior weapon, which would give you all the benefits of pact weapon (including thirsting blade, lifedrinker, etc) on your main hand, all the benefits of hex warrior weapon on your main hand (because "this benefit extends to every pact weapon you conjure with that feature"), plus all the benefits of hex warrior weapon on your off-hand (because that's what you actually bonded with after your long rest). All you're missing is pact weapon benefits on offhand, which isn't that big a deal, since you can't attack twice with your offhand anyway, so basically you're losing one (out of what would be six) +cha to damage.
Everything in the PH Pact of the Blade refers to a singular weapon: a singular pact. It refers to regular weapons, and more detailed info for magical weapons.
It would have been nice for them to have included a giant "AND..." between those two sections, or pluralize "weapon" or "pact" even once. Since they didn't, I have to assume, RAW, that there can only be one Pact, on only one (magical) Weapon.
Hex Warrior is also limited to ONE "particular weapon." It does say that it, with PoB, applies to "every pact weapon you conjure" but - that is also written in the singular.
I think Giacobbo is correct, but obviously House Rules can change things.
That's right, singular. Hex Warrior weapon benefit applies to your hex warrior bonded weapon (in this case, your offhand), and the benefit also applies to your pact weapon (in this case, your main hand). If it didn't, there would be no need to specify that, since you could always just bond (hex warrior bond) with your pact weapon.
I think this gets easier if you try to think of this as two separate things, the Hex Weapon and the Pact Weapon...
You can turn any weapon into your Hex Weapon after a long rest, magical or not.
Your Pact Weapon automatically receives the +Cha bonus if you're a Hexblade.
So, as Tonio said, You can have two weapons with a +Cha attack, your Pact Weapon(summoned/created) and your Hex Weapon (carried).
As for the wording of Hex Warrior, it limits to one Hex Weapon, yes, but the wording says that it extends to your pact weapon, rather than merely "applies".
My question is still: Why make it so complicated? And why make it impossible for a HexOfTheBlade to make a artifact weapon his/her pactblade?
It's complicated because the intent was probably not to have two separate weapons, but rather one weapon. Since Hexblade Patron does not require you to be Pact of the Blade, the benefit can't apply exclusively to your pact weapon, since you might not have one. So there needs to be a separate mechanism that works without, but does not invalidate, pact weapons.
If you decide to wield a single weapon, there's no complication: your pact weapon gets the benefits of Hex Warrior weapons. You can exploit the rules into wielding two weapons with "special" benefits, but while this is allowed, and not unintended, it doesn't appear to be the primary intention.
Regarding artifact weapons, I might be mistaken, buy artifact weapons are not barred, only sentient ones.
https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/107784/warlock-pact-weapon-on-sentient-or-artifact-magic-weapon
My mistake, then!
Anyway, that link shows the answer to your question: "We prevent it because those items have powers and story weight beyond regular magic items. As always, a DM can override our design."
I take that to mean that a weapon rare and/or powerful enough to be classified as an artifact should not be so easily protected from being stolen or whatever. Which, of course, makes you wonder why Eldritch Knights don't have a similar restriction for their Weapon Bond ability.
Sentient weapons I can understand, since they'd object to being fiddled with in such a way (I don't think the Sword of Kas will be too happy to be sent into an extradimensional space on the Warlock's whim), and are probably powerful enough to resist it. Put another (more game-mechanical) way, they're closer to "creatures" than regular "objects", and it's reasonable that the Pact Weapon feature wouldn't affect them, the same way many spells affect "objects" but not "creatures", or allow "creatures" saving throws but not "objects", etc.
In any case, I think the restriction is artificial and arbitrary, and I'd remove it in any game I'd DM for, although I don't think it'll come up very often. =)
That seems pretty dumb, since you can't double attack - Thirsting Blade is limited to your Pact Weapon.
So is Lifedrinker.
And Eldritch Smite.
And Improved Pact Weapon.
I guess, though, that an Artifact or Sentient Weapon may ALREADY grant you those abilities, but... if your Patron-granted weapon "evolves" into a Sentient Weapon (which seems possible...) then you lose multiple attack with that Patron-granted, super important to the Hexblade weapon. The weapon that is probably the most important thing in their lives - above gold, glory and party.
While I like the idea of the whole blade lock thing I think it one of the more poorly put together set of rules. It is one class to avoid for new players...
I'd agree, the Warlock class as a whole seems poorly thought out, difficult to play, and not recommended for anyone new to D&D.
Still my favorite class in spite of all that.
DICE FALL, EVERYONE ROCKS!
And Eldritch Knights can bond with two weapons. I know that, as pointed out earlier here, you can bond with two if you are both Hex and PotB, but why only one as PotB? Especially if you got the improved pact? Quite silly...