Hi all, I'm doing some brainstorming and I'd be interested in some other viewpoints on it.
In my game we'll be hitting level 5 in the next session or two, and I'm trying to figure out how I want to do the next few levels of my Warlock. Originally this was supposed to be a heavy RP campaign, but lately it's taken more of a combat turn, so I'm not sure how the rest of it will lean. While my Warlock is no slouch in combat right now, I definitely built him more towards the social side of things and I'm not sure how well he'll scale in a mid/high level combat focused game. I highly doubt the campaign will go to 20, but I'm expecting somewhere in the 12-15 range.
Currently:
Level 4 Half-Elf Warlock, Hexblade Patron, Pact of the Chain, Elven Accuracy feat
6 Str | 13 Dex | 16 Con | 14 Int | 8 Wis | 18 Cha
I'm not sure if I should just go straight Warlock and either grab +2 Cha or Resilient(Con) at level 8, then just do the standard caster/EB stuff and forgo melee completely. Or pick up some levels in Rogue and be more of a melee hybrid.
If I went Rogue I was thinking at least 2 levels, then I could attack with Booming Blade and my sword (2d8+4+1d6) then BA Disengage and hope they follow me (extra 2d8). Maybe pick up a 3rd level, likely for Mastermind since both the level 3 Mastermind features seem pretty useful, especially if we go back to the more social focused campaign. BA Help will compete with BA Disengage though. I was thinking maybe Swashbuckler at first, since the level 3 abilities are really good, but the motif doesn't fit my character at all.
The Feat/ASI path I was thinking about was: Elven Accuracy, Resilient(Con), ASI +1Dex(14) +1Con(18), and leaving my Cha at 18. I don't know if not maxing my Cha is a mistake or not, or just how much that extra +1 will matter vs the +1s in Dex and Con. Especially since I'm delaying my ASIs, it might just be better to take the +2 Cha and not plan for the third.
The things which are hitching me up are, the highest character I've played has been level 6 and I've never played a Warlock before, so I don't know how monsters and challenges scale in the higher levels and I don't know what it will take to remain relevant in combat. If getting those high level spell slots is going to be a critical thing then I'd probably be better going straight Warlock. But if delaying 3rd level spells (and so on) for some Roguish versatility can work then this Booming Blade Mastermind sounds fun.
The other thing is we've already got a Rogue (or two) and no real "casters" - people come in and out a lot so not everyone will be at every session, but I think we've got: barbarian, cleric/ranger, rogue (bow), blood hunter, bard/fighter, ranger, rogue/ranger (melee), paladin (though he hasn't shown up for a while), warlock. The DM's doesn't use a lot of short rests right now which is why I've been focusing more on the melee side since EB spam is boring, though I might be able to convince him to use more so I could be a more useful caster... I'm not sure, does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?
+2 CHA first your in you PC works on that. Straight warlock fine although if you wanna be more *potential broken* caster focus you might wanna look into sorcerer and there metamagic quickening (able to cast an action spell as BA and EB as action cantrip *double EB :O*) or twinning spells. as for the division you can't go wrong either way but since your DM doesn't do short rest you might lean more to sorcerer for the spell slots. As for more hybred you want the extra action option either get paladin 6 or sword bard 6, the rogue dip just to lackluster if you wanna compeet in melee.
As for the short rest question you could ask the DM to triple your spell slots since a normal adventure has 2 short rest a day. because the measly spells slot a warlock has with no short rest just way to low, half casters and even EK and arcane trickster has more spell slot per long rest then you.
I've got a Hexblade Warlock PotB who is heavy melee. She went to level 5 to get Thirsting Blade, and is now doing a 3 level dip into Rogue, for Swashbuckler. She's already the most criminal of our party, so it makes sense. Looking forward to Rakish Audacity for Initiative boost and more opportunities for Sneak Attack damage. Spellcasting is not her main focus, but we do get a short rest or 2 per day.
But, we've got a Celestial Sorcerer 5 / Warlock 1, a conjuration wizard, and a druid to balance out my Hexblade, a half-orc barbarian, and a Paladin on the front line.
You’ll be fine at higher levels in combat. Don’t worry about “needing” to take another class for extra damage.
Oh, no, it was actually the other way. I know straight Warlock is fine power-wise, but the problem is it only has two spell slots for much of its life. Once those two slots are gone, then I'm down to just Eldritch Blast spam which I don't find very interesting. So I was thinking of adding the Rogue levels not to add power, but to add some variety in combat, but I'm worried that delaying my spell level progression will hurt my overall power too much. For example, if when I hit level 9 I realize I'm a drain on my group in combat because I don't have my level 5 spells since I took Rogue levels, etc.
I've got a Hexblade Warlock PotB who is heavy melee. She went to level 5 to get Thirsting Blade, and is now doing a 3 level dip into Rogue, for Swashbuckler. She's already the most criminal of our party, so it makes sense. Looking forward to Rakish Audacity for Initiative boost and more opportunities for Sneak Attack damage. Spellcasting is not her main focus, but we do get a short rest or 2 per day.
But, we've got a Celestial Sorcerer 5 / Warlock 1, a conjuration wizard, and a druid to balance out my Hexblade, a half-orc barbarian, and a Paladin on the front line.
I was thinking about Swashbuckler too, as it's got some great abilities, but it just wouldn't make sense for my character and the story :( Mastermind has some nice synergy between Master of Intrigue and Mask of Many Faces, especially if we move back towards a more social campaign, that's why I was looking at that. And being able to hand out Advantage never hurts either...
Yeah if we had even one more caster then this would be an easier decision. But since it's really only myself and the half Bard as offensive casters, it's a hard choice to instead focus on adding another melee to the dog pile.
+2 CHA first your in you PC works on that. Straight warlock fine although if you wanna be more *potential broken* caster focus you might wanna look into sorcerer and there metamagic quickening (able to cast an action spell as BA and EB as action cantrip *double EB :O*) or twinning spells. as for the division you can't go wrong either way but since your DM doesn't do short rest you might lean more to sorcerer for the spell slots. As for more hybred you want the extra action option either get paladin 6 or sword bard 6, the rogue dip just to lackluster if you wanna compeet in melee.
As for the short rest question you could ask the DM to triple your spell slots since a normal adventure has 2 short rest a day. because the measly spells slot a warlock has with no short rest just way to low, half casters and even EK and arcane trickster has more spell slot per long rest then you.
While I like being powerful as much as the next guy, I'm not a huge fan of "cheese" classes (Sorlock, CoffeeLock, Hexblade+GWM+PAM). I think it unbalances the table, unless everyone else is building towards that same goal too.
I thought about going Sword+Board Warlock/Paladin, figuring if I wasn't abusing GWM/PAM then it wouldn't be too cheesy, but my Strength is no where high enough to MC into Pally.
I was hoping to use Booming Blade to help counter not having an Extra Action, since it scales with character level and not class level. At level 5 it does similar damage as an Extra Action 1-handed attack, just minus the stat modifier (BB: 2d8+Cha vs EA: 2d8+Cha+Cha). Plus it adds some battlefield control by locking down an enemy, and if the enemy moves then it does extra damage (2d8), however this relies on getting the enemy to move (hence Bonus Action Disengage). Then at level 11 it's ahead of an Extra Attack with a 1-handed weapon (for a Warlock) if the target doesn't move, and much better than EA if it does. At 11 a Warlock with Extra Attack will be doing 2(1d8+Cha) [12-26] with a standard sword. Where Booming Blade will be doing 1d8+Cha+2d8 [8-29] + a potential of an extra 3d8 [11-53 total]. It becomes much less effective when you switch to 2-handed weapons naturally, and an Extra Attack will be better there, but as a Sword+Board Warlock using a d8 sword that's not something that affects me. The only way to top BB with a single 1-handed sword as a Warlock is to be a full Hexblade+PotB with the Extra Attack and Lifedrinker Invocations, and that only beats it if the target doesn't move.
Sword Bard 3 might be able to achieve the same thing by pushing the enemy away with Mobile Flourish, but you can't use Booming Blade with that. There's the cheese that is Devils Sight+Darkness which would allow me to attack and move away, but that negatively effects my heavily melee focused group and costs a limited spell slot. So I figured, Booming Blade, plus BA Disengage, plus a little bit of added Sneak damage might be enough to keep me competitive in combat and worth the slower progression on level 4 and 5 spell slots. But I've never played a magic user that high before, so I don't know how game changing getting those higher level slots sooner will be.
You only have 2 spell slots, but you also have all of your Eldritch invocations. And look carefully at how wide ranging your spells can be, I just discovered Hypnotic Pattern for example and it’s one of the few charm type spells that doesn’t give its targets a save every round and it even affects multiple targets instead of just one!
I've been playing with the idea of a Mastermind Rogue and Pact of Chain Warlock with Great Old One patron. The idea of using an invisible imp spy, mind reading, Mask of Many Faces and the Mastermind mimicry abilities sound like a lot of fun.
Hypnotic Pattern is one of the best control spells in the game and in my opinion a must have for Warlocks. Even though it has no scaling effects with spell level, its so good at base level that in many cases it will be worth dropping your level 4 or 5 spell slot to cast. More than once I have taken a potentially deadly encounter and turned it into a walk in the park as my team slowly chews through 1 adversary at a time forced to choose between defending themself or using their action to shake another awake. Either way it's one of the best action economy control spells in the game in my opinion.
Get to 5 in warlock before you decide to multiclass. Lvl 3 spells, 3rd eldritch invocation and new options. I think that will be your best option.
If this is a question about role playing, do whatever you want! If this is a question about optimization, i think you're better off with the decisions you've already made to stick with Warlock.
Hi all, I'm doing some brainstorming and I'd be interested in some other viewpoints on it.
In my game we'll be hitting level 5 in the next session or two, and I'm trying to figure out how I want to do the next few levels of my Warlock. Originally this was supposed to be a heavy RP campaign, but lately it's taken more of a combat turn, so I'm not sure how the rest of it will lean. While my Warlock is no slouch in combat right now, I definitely built him more towards the social side of things and I'm not sure how well he'll scale in a mid/high level combat focused game. I highly doubt the campaign will go to 20, but I'm expecting somewhere in the 12-15 range.
Currently:
Level 4 Half-Elf Warlock, Hexblade Patron, Pact of the Chain, Elven Accuracy feat
6 Str | 13 Dex | 16 Con | 14 Int | 8 Wis | 18 Cha
I'm not sure if I should just go straight Warlock and either grab +2 Cha or Resilient(Con) at level 8, then just do the standard caster/EB stuff and forgo melee completely. Or pick up some levels in Rogue and be more of a melee hybrid.
If I went Rogue I was thinking at least 2 levels, then I could attack with Booming Blade and my sword (2d8+4+1d6) then BA Disengage and hope they follow me (extra 2d8). Maybe pick up a 3rd level, likely for Mastermind since both the level 3 Mastermind features seem pretty useful, especially if we go back to the more social focused campaign. BA Help will compete with BA Disengage though. I was thinking maybe Swashbuckler at first, since the level 3 abilities are really good, but the motif doesn't fit my character at all.
So maybe something like: (4) Warlock4, (5) Rogue1 [BB/EB bump], (6) Rogue2 [BA Disengage], (7) Warlock5 [3rd level slots], (8) Warlock6 [Specter], (9) Warlock7 [4th level slots], (10) Warlock8 [feat]
Or: (4) Warlock4, (5) Rogue1 [BB/EB bump], (6) Rogue2 [BA Disengage], (7) Warlock5 [3rd level slots], (8) Rouge3 [+1d6SA], (9) Rogue4 [feat](?)
Or maybe just 4 Warlock then 4 Rogue...
The Feat/ASI path I was thinking about was: Elven Accuracy, Resilient(Con), ASI +1Dex(14) +1Con(18), and leaving my Cha at 18. I don't know if not maxing my Cha is a mistake or not, or just how much that extra +1 will matter vs the +1s in Dex and Con. Especially since I'm delaying my ASIs, it might just be better to take the +2 Cha and not plan for the third.
The things which are hitching me up are, the highest character I've played has been level 6 and I've never played a Warlock before, so I don't know how monsters and challenges scale in the higher levels and I don't know what it will take to remain relevant in combat. If getting those high level spell slots is going to be a critical thing then I'd probably be better going straight Warlock. But if delaying 3rd level spells (and so on) for some Roguish versatility can work then this Booming Blade Mastermind sounds fun.
The other thing is we've already got a Rogue (or two) and no real "casters" - people come in and out a lot so not everyone will be at every session, but I think we've got: barbarian, cleric/ranger, rogue (bow), blood hunter, bard/fighter, ranger, rogue/ranger (melee), paladin (though he hasn't shown up for a while), warlock. The DM's doesn't use a lot of short rests right now which is why I've been focusing more on the melee side since EB spam is boring, though I might be able to convince him to use more so I could be a more useful caster... I'm not sure, does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?
+2 CHA first your in you PC works on that. Straight warlock fine although if you wanna be more *potential broken* caster focus you might wanna look into sorcerer and there metamagic quickening (able to cast an action spell as BA and EB as action cantrip *double EB :O*) or twinning spells. as for the division you can't go wrong either way but since your DM doesn't do short rest you might lean more to sorcerer for the spell slots.
As for more hybred you want the extra action option either get paladin 6 or sword bard 6, the rogue dip just to lackluster if you wanna compeet in melee.
As for the short rest question you could ask the DM to triple your spell slots since a normal adventure has 2 short rest a day. because the measly spells slot a warlock has with no short rest just way to low, half casters and even EK and arcane trickster has more spell slot per long rest then you.
Nox - Adult Oblex - The Trials
Jartrin Ephok - Dragonborn - Zanoliv
Bunol - Grim Angel - The Floating Lands of Goriate
You’ll be fine at higher levels in combat. Don’t worry about “needing” to take another class for extra damage.
Professional computer geek
I've got a Hexblade Warlock PotB who is heavy melee. She went to level 5 to get Thirsting Blade, and is now doing a 3 level dip into Rogue, for Swashbuckler. She's already the most criminal of our party, so it makes sense. Looking forward to Rakish Audacity for Initiative boost and more opportunities for Sneak Attack damage. Spellcasting is not her main focus, but we do get a short rest or 2 per day.
But, we've got a Celestial Sorcerer 5 / Warlock 1, a conjuration wizard, and a druid to balance out my Hexblade, a half-orc barbarian, and a Paladin on the front line.
Oh, no, it was actually the other way. I know straight Warlock is fine power-wise, but the problem is it only has two spell slots for much of its life. Once those two slots are gone, then I'm down to just Eldritch Blast spam which I don't find very interesting. So I was thinking of adding the Rogue levels not to add power, but to add some variety in combat, but I'm worried that delaying my spell level progression will hurt my overall power too much. For example, if when I hit level 9 I realize I'm a drain on my group in combat because I don't have my level 5 spells since I took Rogue levels, etc.
I was thinking about Swashbuckler too, as it's got some great abilities, but it just wouldn't make sense for my character and the story :( Mastermind has some nice synergy between Master of Intrigue and Mask of Many Faces, especially if we move back towards a more social campaign, that's why I was looking at that. And being able to hand out Advantage never hurts either...
Yeah if we had even one more caster then this would be an easier decision. But since it's really only myself and the half Bard as offensive casters, it's a hard choice to instead focus on adding another melee to the dog pile.
While I like being powerful as much as the next guy, I'm not a huge fan of "cheese" classes (Sorlock, CoffeeLock, Hexblade+GWM+PAM). I think it unbalances the table, unless everyone else is building towards that same goal too.
I thought about going Sword+Board Warlock/Paladin, figuring if I wasn't abusing GWM/PAM then it wouldn't be too cheesy, but my Strength is no where high enough to MC into Pally.
I was hoping to use Booming Blade to help counter not having an Extra Action, since it scales with character level and not class level. At level 5 it does similar damage as an Extra Action 1-handed attack, just minus the stat modifier (BB: 2d8+Cha vs EA: 2d8+Cha+Cha). Plus it adds some battlefield control by locking down an enemy, and if the enemy moves then it does extra damage (2d8), however this relies on getting the enemy to move (hence Bonus Action Disengage). Then at level 11 it's ahead of an Extra Attack with a 1-handed weapon (for a Warlock) if the target doesn't move, and much better than EA if it does. At 11 a Warlock with Extra Attack will be doing 2(1d8+Cha) [12-26] with a standard sword. Where Booming Blade will be doing 1d8+Cha+2d8 [8-29] + a potential of an extra 3d8 [11-53 total]. It becomes much less effective when you switch to 2-handed weapons naturally, and an Extra Attack will be better there, but as a Sword+Board Warlock using a d8 sword that's not something that affects me. The only way to top BB with a single 1-handed sword as a Warlock is to be a full Hexblade+PotB with the Extra Attack and Lifedrinker Invocations, and that only beats it if the target doesn't move.
Sword Bard 3 might be able to achieve the same thing by pushing the enemy away with Mobile Flourish, but you can't use Booming Blade with that. There's the cheese that is Devils Sight+Darkness which would allow me to attack and move away, but that negatively effects my heavily melee focused group and costs a limited spell slot. So I figured, Booming Blade, plus BA Disengage, plus a little bit of added Sneak damage might be enough to keep me competitive in combat and worth the slower progression on level 4 and 5 spell slots. But I've never played a magic user that high before, so I don't know how game changing getting those higher level slots sooner will be.
You only have 2 spell slots, but you also have all of your Eldritch invocations. And look carefully at how wide ranging your spells can be, I just discovered Hypnotic Pattern for example and it’s one of the few charm type spells that doesn’t give its targets a save every round and it even affects multiple targets instead of just one!
Professional computer geek
I've been playing with the idea of a Mastermind Rogue and Pact of Chain Warlock with Great Old One patron. The idea of using an invisible imp spy, mind reading, Mask of Many Faces and the Mastermind mimicry abilities sound like a lot of fun.
Hypnotic Pattern is one of the best control spells in the game and in my opinion a must have for Warlocks. Even though it has no scaling effects with spell level, its so good at base level that in many cases it will be worth dropping your level 4 or 5 spell slot to cast. More than once I have taken a potentially deadly encounter and turned it into a walk in the park as my team slowly chews through 1 adversary at a time forced to choose between defending themself or using their action to shake another awake. Either way it's one of the best action economy control spells in the game in my opinion.
Get to 5 in warlock before you decide to multiclass. Lvl 3 spells, 3rd eldritch invocation and new options. I think that will be your best option.
If this is a question about role playing, do whatever you want! If this is a question about optimization, i think you're better off with the decisions you've already made to stick with Warlock.
Yeah, Warlock is solid. Multiclassing is for those who lack the courage to go the distance. Don't be them.
Abide.