Anyway, the subclass I've been working on (and finished a v1 of) is a subclass (usually tied with hyper-religious cults and eldritch pacts) in where the warlock doesn't get extra spells, but allows themselves to be possessed by a semi-powerful demon or other creature. They get some (yes, I'll admit it, some are OP) powers tied to their demon, but they also have the chance of getting possessed by that demon/gaining a strange form of madness, which, unless their party has Remove Curse or Greater Restoration ready for use whenever, can really affect low-level parties.
Have gotten 39 views/15 adds from it (my most popular creation! yay!) but I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions. Open to suggestions mainly because I'm thinking about playing it in a campaign.
I'd just say no, removing player agency is always a tricky place to be in, sometimes it can be done well but it should be infrequent and well planned. This is just a player constantly not playing their own character from a single subpar choice, this is straight up more punishing than a Wild Magic Sorcerer losing control of their wild magic. On top of that, what is even the point of going to the "Demon" form, it seems the only point is to activate a single blessing, which is little more than an enhanced levitation ability. Overall I don't see the point in that form at all. And yes this is very overpowered. You should really look to scale it inline with other patron choices for Warlock... this is something that would just break a campaign.
My advice is too remove DCs entirely, instead take a note from the Wild Magic Sorcerer playbook.
Instead of just losing control, at the start of each turn after the initial turn where demon form was activated, the player rolls a 1D20 and based on the result different things can happen. i.e.
1. Your inner Demon takes over, it randomly targets three creatures within in 60 feet, it casts scorching ray, each creature only being targeted by one ray. You do not expend a pact slot for the casting but the casting consumes your action for the turn. For every 4 warlock levels above 3rd (starting at 7), the level the demon casts scorching ray at is increased by 1, targeting a different creature for each additional ray.
2. Your inner Demon unleases it's bloodlust, you have to move towards 1 hostile creature of your choice but can take no movement or spell to move away from it until the start of your next turn, if there are no visible hostile creatures then your movement speed becomes 0 foot for the current turn. Attacks against other creatures but your target are made with disadvantage and all other creatures get advantage on any saving throws against your spells until the start of your next turn.
3-17 ... nothing happens
18. Your inner Demon casts fireball, but you determine any space within 30 feet, fireball is cast at that location as a 3rd level spell. You do not expend a pact slot for the casting but the casting consumes your action for the turn. For every 4 warlock levels above 3rd (starting at 7), the level you cast fireball at is increased by 1.
19. Your inner Demon's wings spawn from your back, until the end of the current turn you have a fly speed of 50 foot and do not provoke opportunity attacks from that movement.
20. Your inner Demon grants you it's resilience, you gain a number of temporary hit points equal to your Charisma Modifier plus half of your warlock level (round down).
This is just a suggestion, of how it could work (something I tossed together quickly). 15/20 turns nothing happens, 2/20 something bad happens and 3/20 something good happens. There is a risk/reward factor.
As for the powers, I'll wait to see the rework before further recommendations.
My advice is too remove DCs entirely, instead take a note from the Wild Magic Sorcerer playbook.
Instead of just losing control, at the start of each turn after the initial turn where demon form was activated, the player rolls a 1D20 and based on the result different things can happen. i.e.
1. Your inner Demon takes over, it randomly targets three creatures within in 60 feet, it casts scorching ray, each creature only being targeted by one ray. You do not expend a pact slot for the casting but the casting consumes your action for the turn. For every 4 warlock levels above 3rd (starting at 7), the level the demon casts scorching ray at is increased by 1, targeting a different creature for each additional ray.
2. Your inner Demon unleases it's bloodlust, you have to move towards 1 hostile creature of your choice but can take no movement or spell to move away from it until the start of your next turn, if there are no visible hostile creatures then your movement speed becomes 0 foot for the current turn.
3-17 ... nothing happens
18. Your inner Demon casts fireball, but you determine any space within 30 feet, fireball is cast at that location as a 3rd level spell. You do not expend a pact slot for the casting but the casting consumes your action for the turn. For every 4 warlock levels above 3rd (starting at 7), the level you cast fireball at is increased by 1.
19. Your inner Demon's wings spawn from your back, until the end of the current turn you have a fly speed of 50 foot and do not provoke opportunity attacks from that movement.
20. Your inner Demon grants you it's resilience, you gain a number of temporary hit points equal to your Charisma Modifier plus half of your warlock level (round down).
This is just a suggestion, of how it could work. 15/20 turns nothing happens, 2/20 something bad happens and 3/20 something good happens. There is a risk/reward factor.
As for the powers, I'll wait to see the rework before further recommendations.
Sounds interesting. I think I want to make it less random & more "you're gaining demonic powers while resisting the demon itself." Might randomize the saving throw (fluctuating control) though.
Might take me a while to rework it - summer break's coming up anyway
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Extended sig here. Send me a PM if you want to chat.
If you really want to keep the DCs, you can mix it up, so that on failing the DC, then the table is called and just fill it up with options where the worst case is a nat 1 roll and a nat 20 roll you get to re-roll the DC you failed. But make it a mixture of good and bad effects where full player agency is rarely lost. Then after making the DC, you can choose to draw on a further boon from the demon, rolling the table with advantage at the start of your turn while the transformation remains active, maybe nat 20 does something different in that case.
^see the name above
Anyway, the subclass I've been working on (and finished a v1 of) is a subclass (usually tied with hyper-religious cults and eldritch pacts) in where the warlock doesn't get extra spells, but allows themselves to be possessed by a semi-powerful demon or other creature. They get some (yes, I'll admit it, some are OP) powers tied to their demon, but they also have the chance of getting possessed by that demon/gaining a strange form of madness, which, unless their party has Remove Curse or Greater Restoration ready for use whenever, can really affect low-level parties.
Have gotten 39 views/15 adds from it (my most popular creation! yay!) but I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions. Open to suggestions mainly because I'm thinking about playing it in a campaign.
Link: https://www.dndbeyond.com/subclasses/2427991-demonic-patron
Religious frisbee player, writer, goofball, and nerd. Some may say professional for the latter two.
Extended sig here. Send me a PM if you want to chat.
DM: Westeros - A Homebrew D&D Campaign, Liquid Swords - A Historical Wuxia Campaign
Player: Marcus Aquillus Arcade (Quil) - 1st Rogue - Pax Romana
I'd just say no, removing player agency is always a tricky place to be in, sometimes it can be done well but it should be infrequent and well planned. This is just a player constantly not playing their own character from a single subpar choice, this is straight up more punishing than a Wild Magic Sorcerer losing control of their wild magic. On top of that, what is even the point of going to the "Demon" form, it seems the only point is to activate a single blessing, which is little more than an enhanced levitation ability. Overall I don't see the point in that form at all. And yes this is very overpowered. You should really look to scale it inline with other patron choices for Warlock... this is something that would just break a campaign.
Thanks for the feedback!
Working on a v2 with some edits:
- (planned) Improved/no longer broken Demonic Form powers
- Higher Possession DCs
- Reworking of Demonic Blessings (in accordance to some of R3sistance's ideas, possibly allowing them to cast multiple blessings/form)
Religious frisbee player, writer, goofball, and nerd. Some may say professional for the latter two.
Extended sig here. Send me a PM if you want to chat.
DM: Westeros - A Homebrew D&D Campaign, Liquid Swords - A Historical Wuxia Campaign
Player: Marcus Aquillus Arcade (Quil) - 1st Rogue - Pax Romana
My advice is too remove DCs entirely, instead take a note from the Wild Magic Sorcerer playbook.
Instead of just losing control, at the start of each turn after the initial turn where demon form was activated, the player rolls a 1D20 and based on the result different things can happen. i.e.
1. Your inner Demon takes over, it randomly targets three creatures within in 60 feet, it casts scorching ray, each creature only being targeted by one ray. You do not expend a pact slot for the casting but the casting consumes your action for the turn. For every 4 warlock levels above 3rd (starting at 7), the level the demon casts scorching ray at is increased by 1, targeting a different creature for each additional ray.
2. Your inner Demon unleases it's bloodlust, you have to move towards 1 hostile creature of your choice but can take no movement or spell to move away from it until the start of your next turn, if there are no visible hostile creatures then your movement speed becomes 0 foot for the current turn. Attacks against other creatures but your target are made with disadvantage and all other creatures get advantage on any saving throws against your spells until the start of your next turn.
3-17 ... nothing happens
18. Your inner Demon casts fireball, but you determine any space within 30 feet, fireball is cast at that location as a 3rd level spell. You do not expend a pact slot for the casting but the casting consumes your action for the turn. For every 4 warlock levels above 3rd (starting at 7), the level you cast fireball at is increased by 1.
19. Your inner Demon's wings spawn from your back, until the end of the current turn you have a fly speed of 50 foot and do not provoke opportunity attacks from that movement.
20. Your inner Demon grants you it's resilience, you gain a number of temporary hit points equal to your Charisma Modifier plus half of your warlock level (round down).
This is just a suggestion, of how it could work (something I tossed together quickly). 15/20 turns nothing happens, 2/20 something bad happens and 3/20 something good happens. There is a risk/reward factor.
As for the powers, I'll wait to see the rework before further recommendations.
Sounds interesting. I think I want to make it less random & more "you're gaining demonic powers while resisting the demon itself." Might randomize the saving throw (fluctuating control) though.
Might take me a while to rework it - summer break's coming up anyway
Religious frisbee player, writer, goofball, and nerd. Some may say professional for the latter two.
Extended sig here. Send me a PM if you want to chat.
DM: Westeros - A Homebrew D&D Campaign, Liquid Swords - A Historical Wuxia Campaign
Player: Marcus Aquillus Arcade (Quil) - 1st Rogue - Pax Romana
If you really want to keep the DCs, you can mix it up, so that on failing the DC, then the table is called and just fill it up with options where the worst case is a nat 1 roll and a nat 20 roll you get to re-roll the DC you failed. But make it a mixture of good and bad effects where full player agency is rarely lost. Then after making the DC, you can choose to draw on a further boon from the demon, rolling the table with advantage at the start of your turn while the transformation remains active, maybe nat 20 does something different in that case.