So, I am bringing in a new character to our game at level 3. I have decided to do a Hexblade Paladin of Vengeance, hexadin, Heblade of Vengeance, whatever you want to call it.
I also was wanting to do a dex build for a paladin, so my DM said he would let me swap the Paladin multiclassing requirements from STR/CHA to DEX/CHA. And originally, my goal was to put a 14 in my DEX so my race (Tabaxi) with +2 DEX would ultimately get a +3 stat. Which would be optimal for wearing medium armor, then maybe at level 8 getting medium armor master. So for stats, our table had the option of point buy or rolling. 4d6 drop lowest, reroll if under 7, and reroll all if total is under 70. The first set had 3 below 10 totaling 62, then I rolled these:
So needless to say, I rolled well. I can move the numbers around as I want. In case the image doesn't work, I rolled 10, 18, 16, 16,13,17
So when I made it, I put my 18 in DEX to make 20, so I could have the benefit of light armor and get a good AC. I also have a shield and my martial archetype is Defense so I am able to get an AC of 20 with my shield. But once I started thinking about it, I thought maybe a +5 dex isn't worth it. Since as a hexblade I can use my CHA as my main weapon anyways. I do get the AC bonus and stealth and what not. My goal was to be a little stealthy a bit and not hinder with heavy clanky armor.
Warlock 1 > Paladin 6 > Warlock +2 (3) After that, I am not sure. The traditional hexadin seems to prefer Warlock 14. But some of the later Paladin levels seem great too.
But really, I'm wondering if moving my 18 is the best fit to go to another stat. I could put 17 on CHA and 13 on DEX and my first ASI i can split between CHA/DEX to get them each an additional +1. There seems to also be some good benefits to pumping STR to do Polearm master+Sentinel And Great Weapon fighting style. Though I lose 1 AC from there as well as 2 from lowering DEX. bringing me to 17 AC. Not nearly as good. Doing PAM master also really needs to have the blade pact to work with 2 handed weapons.
Or should i stick with sword+board and high DEX. I am also trying to look at synergy with things like hex, booming blade, eldritch blast, and divine smite.
If I only go to warlock 4, the pact of the blade doesn't really make sense, and the pact of the tome loses much of its benefit later on since I could only do lvl 2 rituals. And I really like the idea of the pact of the chain. Especially since we don't have a ranger, the IMP and its abilities could be very useful as well as getting max healing on dice rolled with an invocation.
So I was hoping to get some input on what paths would be good, assuming I go with more levels in Warlock. I know I want Paladin 6 minimum but may go to 8 for the ASI.
Just so you know, you're not supposed to duplicate threads in 2 different places. You can put it in the Warlock forum or the Paladin from, but not both. Sorry if that sounds mean or rude or whatever, I'm not trying to be. I've made the same mistake. :)
Ah ok. thats fine. I deleted the other one since i posted this one first. I posted in the other one for ideas if i was doing more Paladin. But I am leaning more towards more Warlock anyways.
Personaly for my Vengeance pally/Hexblade i did 3 Paladin and then from there Hexblade, the character is currently lvl12.
Character also has the Gauntlets of Ogre power( well a modified and homebrewed version of it, since our campaign is heavely homebrewed).
Now even without that, it depends on what you really want to do.
A Dex/CHA build is'nt a bad thing, the DEX with medium armor or Light armor gives a good AC, and with Hex Warrior you'll use CHA for spellcasting and melee.
Where the DEX can also help is with Initiative and Dex saves( and there's a lot of those).
Sword & Board isn't a bad thing, but then if possible you'll need the War Caster feat so that you can do the somatic component of spells without the need of a free hand.
And yeah if you want to make a Polearm MAster you'll need the Pact of the Blade.
Personaly i would switch the Detect Good & Evil spell for something else, since you allready have the Divine Sense class feature that does the same, taking a Smite spell is highly beneficial.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
I won't make this long cause a lot of people give this response and it gets annoying but yadda yadda don't worry too much about planning ahead because chances are the campaign won't go past level 10 if that.
However I'll still give you actual advice.
The way you have your character planned now looks great. Starting with 20 in your secondary stat at level 3 is wild. You really can't go wrong there, and on top you are starting with high charisma. You don't even really need to bump charisma at your first ASI, I would wait for the second and take a feat first. Honestly you could probably even get away with never bumping it if you find yourself not relying on EB that often.
Weapon choice really depends on what you want to do as a character. Going dex means that you only really have one optimal weapon and thats a rapier with a shield, unless you have a homebrew 2h dex sword. Using a bow will kind of just be suboptimal soon because EB does so much more damage, but for now a bow will do more damage. For now just sheath your sword when you want to cast, but definitely pick up warcaster if you are going that route. That's my suggestion for your first ASI.
If you are still considering non-dex, then you should choose between defense and offense. Your offense options are PAM + GWM (Honestly, I would never take this because it's just so overdone that it makes ur character feel mundane, but also you are already bonus action heavy so you won't get your bonus strike off as often) . I prefer just GWM with a greatsword, my hex/pally uses this and I do so much damage and never miss the extra range of a polearm because EB does decent damage. I would suggest blade pact, it just makes more sense for the character and you can also pick up eldritch smite for those awesome double smites. Either way take defense fighting style, or dueling / gwf, but defense is always a good option.
Also honestly the reason I used to suggest going full warlock was that warlock spells tend to be better, but going high pally levels is even better now due to the new xanatathars spells. Find greater steed and holy weapon are just so great. Of course, that limits you to warlock 3 / hex 17. I like warlock higher for lifedrinker but improved divine smite does a similar thing and vengeance pally oath spells are so great at level 13...honestly, both work well. Just make sure you go 6 pally at least for oath of protection and you'll be fine. Going the 6 pally / 14 warlock is probably just the easiest and most powerful path
Yea I am leaning towards Paladin 6/Warlock 14. Curious, why only 3 levels of paladin. With a high CHA the Aura of Protection just seems to useful.
As for the pact, I am looking at the blade, but tome also seems really useful. Especially some of the invocations that line up with it like not needing long rest (Aspect of the Moon, XgE). But So does Pact of the Chain coupled with Gift of the Ever Living Ones giving me max rolls on health if my familiar is within 100'. Its also pretty thematic given that if I get an imp, I can have him look like a raven and get all the benefits of an imp. Especially since we have no ranger. Granted, I am going to paladin 6 so I have some time to figure that out.
Don't get me wrong, all pact types are pretty useful. Most people go pact of the blade cause they go for a heavy weapon build and heavy weapons can only be used with charisma if you go blade pact. The problem with not going blade pact is three of the most powerful melee invocations (Eldritch Smite, Lifedrinker, thirsting blade too but you are going pally 5 first so doesn't matter as much), are only available to blade pacts. I'd personally hate to miss out on those, but if you aren't worried about combat capability as much or plan to use EB a lot then you could skip em and take tome pact + Book of ancient secrets for more utility or chain for utility and scouting.
At the end of the day, its more important to love your character concept. If you aren't worried about being completely optimized, go for that chain pact!
(Also don't wanna speak for Chaosrex but he likely chose 3 pally / rest warlock for 9th level warlock spells while still getting the best benefits from paladin in heavy armor and divine smite. I still prefer 6 pally but 17 war/ 3 pal definitely works well)
I chose Pally 3 only because for my play style and Flavor, my character as no use for Aura of Protection, and also as to have the quickest possible higher lvls with Hexblade for spellsots and Invocations.
It all depends on your play style, if you want to be a Dark Knight but that still protects his allies, then yeah the Aura would be great, personally an Aura of dread or Draining Aura would fit more thematicly, but the Oathbreaker subclass wasn't what i was going for.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
So I am thinking that I will do Warlock 1/ Paladin 6/Warlock 14. My concern with blade pact is that by the time I get it and am able to get the invocations to make use of it, I will have better options since I will essentially be getting it 6 levels later than normal. And after thinking about the group dynamic, as much as Tome is cool, we already have a wizard who will have rituals available. And I don't want to step on their toes.
I can see it making sense in some cases to only do paladin 3. If I did that, it would push things back a lot, most notably extra attack, which I wouldn't get until level 8 if I did paladin 3 first.
So, even though I will do paladin 6/warlock 14, I am thinking chain pact. having that max result on healing dice will be very useful. and I also think it will add a lot of color to the character.
So, I am bringing in a new character to our game at level 3. I have decided to do a Hexblade Paladin of Vengeance, hexadin, Heblade of Vengeance, whatever you want to call it.
I also was wanting to do a dex build for a paladin, so my DM said he would let me swap the Paladin multiclassing requirements from STR/CHA to DEX/CHA. And originally, my goal was to put a 14 in my DEX so my race (Tabaxi) with +2 DEX would ultimately get a +3 stat. Which would be optimal for wearing medium armor, then maybe at level 8 getting medium armor master. So for stats, our table had the option of point buy or rolling. 4d6 drop lowest, reroll if under 7, and reroll all if total is under 70. The first set had 3 below 10 totaling 62, then I rolled these:
So needless to say, I rolled well. I can move the numbers around as I want. In case the image doesn't work, I rolled 10, 18, 16, 16,13,17
So when I made it, I put my 18 in DEX to make 20, so I could have the benefit of light armor and get a good AC. I also have a shield and my martial archetype is Defense so I am able to get an AC of 20 with my shield. But once I started thinking about it, I thought maybe a +5 dex isn't worth it. Since as a hexblade I can use my CHA as my main weapon anyways. I do get the AC bonus and stealth and what not. My goal was to be a little stealthy a bit and not hinder with heavy clanky armor.
This is where my build is at right now
https://ddb.ac/characters/10890442/zxw7HP
My leveling plan was
Warlock 1 > Paladin 6 > Warlock +2 (3)
After that, I am not sure. The traditional hexadin seems to prefer Warlock 14. But some of the later Paladin levels seem great too.
But really, I'm wondering if moving my 18 is the best fit to go to another stat. I could put 17 on CHA and 13 on DEX and my first ASI i can split between CHA/DEX to get them each an additional +1. There seems to also be some good benefits to pumping STR to do Polearm master+Sentinel And Great Weapon fighting style. Though I lose 1 AC from there as well as 2 from lowering DEX. bringing me to 17 AC. Not nearly as good. Doing PAM master also really needs to have the blade pact to work with 2 handed weapons.
Or should i stick with sword+board and high DEX. I am also trying to look at synergy with things like hex, booming blade, eldritch blast, and divine smite.
If I only go to warlock 4, the pact of the blade doesn't really make sense, and the pact of the tome loses much of its benefit later on since I could only do lvl 2 rituals. And I really like the idea of the pact of the chain. Especially since we don't have a ranger, the IMP and its abilities could be very useful as well as getting max healing on dice rolled with an invocation.
So I was hoping to get some input on what paths would be good, assuming I go with more levels in Warlock. I know I want Paladin 6 minimum but may go to 8 for the ASI.
Just so you know, you're not supposed to duplicate threads in 2 different places. You can put it in the Warlock forum or the Paladin from, but not both. Sorry if that sounds mean or rude or whatever, I'm not trying to be. I've made the same mistake. :)
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Ah ok. thats fine. I deleted the other one since i posted this one first. I posted in the other one for ideas if i was doing more Paladin. But I am leaning more towards more Warlock anyways.
Personaly for my Vengeance pally/Hexblade i did 3 Paladin and then from there Hexblade, the character is currently lvl12.
Character also has the Gauntlets of Ogre power( well a modified and homebrewed version of it, since our campaign is heavely homebrewed).
Now even without that, it depends on what you really want to do.
A Dex/CHA build is'nt a bad thing, the DEX with medium armor or Light armor gives a good AC, and with Hex Warrior you'll use CHA for spellcasting and melee.
Where the DEX can also help is with Initiative and Dex saves( and there's a lot of those).
Sword & Board isn't a bad thing, but then if possible you'll need the War Caster feat so that you can do the somatic component of spells without the need of a free hand.
And yeah if you want to make a Polearm MAster you'll need the Pact of the Blade.
Personaly i would switch the Detect Good & Evil spell for something else, since you allready have the Divine Sense class feature that does the same, taking a Smite spell is highly beneficial.
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
Kain de Frostberg- Dark Knight - (Vengeance Pal3/ Hexblade 9), Port Mourn
Kain de Draakberg-Dark Knight lvl8-Avergreen(DitA)
I won't make this long cause a lot of people give this response and it gets annoying but yadda yadda don't worry too much about planning ahead because chances are the campaign won't go past level 10 if that.
However I'll still give you actual advice.
The way you have your character planned now looks great. Starting with 20 in your secondary stat at level 3 is wild. You really can't go wrong there, and on top you are starting with high charisma. You don't even really need to bump charisma at your first ASI, I would wait for the second and take a feat first. Honestly you could probably even get away with never bumping it if you find yourself not relying on EB that often.
Weapon choice really depends on what you want to do as a character. Going dex means that you only really have one optimal weapon and thats a rapier with a shield, unless you have a homebrew 2h dex sword. Using a bow will kind of just be suboptimal soon because EB does so much more damage, but for now a bow will do more damage. For now just sheath your sword when you want to cast, but definitely pick up warcaster if you are going that route. That's my suggestion for your first ASI.
If you are still considering non-dex, then you should choose between defense and offense. Your offense options are PAM + GWM (Honestly, I would never take this because it's just so overdone that it makes ur character feel mundane, but also you are already bonus action heavy so you won't get your bonus strike off as often) . I prefer just GWM with a greatsword, my hex/pally uses this and I do so much damage and never miss the extra range of a polearm because EB does decent damage. I would suggest blade pact, it just makes more sense for the character and you can also pick up eldritch smite for those awesome double smites. Either way take defense fighting style, or dueling / gwf, but defense is always a good option.
Also honestly the reason I used to suggest going full warlock was that warlock spells tend to be better, but going high pally levels is even better now due to the new xanatathars spells. Find greater steed and holy weapon are just so great. Of course, that limits you to warlock 3 / hex 17. I like warlock higher for lifedrinker but improved divine smite does a similar thing and vengeance pally oath spells are so great at level 13...honestly, both work well. Just make sure you go 6 pally at least for oath of protection and you'll be fine. Going the 6 pally / 14 warlock is probably just the easiest and most powerful path
Yea I am leaning towards Paladin 6/Warlock 14. Curious, why only 3 levels of paladin. With a high CHA the Aura of Protection just seems to useful.
As for the pact, I am looking at the blade, but tome also seems really useful. Especially some of the invocations that line up with it like not needing long rest (Aspect of the Moon, XgE). But So does Pact of the Chain coupled with Gift of the Ever Living Ones giving me max rolls on health if my familiar is within 100'. Its also pretty thematic given that if I get an imp, I can have him look like a raven and get all the benefits of an imp. Especially since we have no ranger. Granted, I am going to paladin 6 so I have some time to figure that out.
Don't get me wrong, all pact types are pretty useful. Most people go pact of the blade cause they go for a heavy weapon build and heavy weapons can only be used with charisma if you go blade pact. The problem with not going blade pact is three of the most powerful melee invocations (Eldritch Smite, Lifedrinker, thirsting blade too but you are going pally 5 first so doesn't matter as much), are only available to blade pacts. I'd personally hate to miss out on those, but if you aren't worried about combat capability as much or plan to use EB a lot then you could skip em and take tome pact + Book of ancient secrets for more utility or chain for utility and scouting.
At the end of the day, its more important to love your character concept. If you aren't worried about being completely optimized, go for that chain pact!
(Also don't wanna speak for Chaosrex but he likely chose 3 pally / rest warlock for 9th level warlock spells while still getting the best benefits from paladin in heavy armor and divine smite. I still prefer 6 pally but 17 war/ 3 pal definitely works well)
I chose Pally 3 only because for my play style and Flavor, my character as no use for Aura of Protection, and also as to have the quickest possible higher lvls with Hexblade for spellsots and Invocations.
It all depends on your play style, if you want to be a Dark Knight but that still protects his allies, then yeah the Aura would be great, personally an Aura of dread or Draining Aura would fit more thematicly, but the Oathbreaker subclass wasn't what i was going for.
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
Kain de Frostberg- Dark Knight - (Vengeance Pal3/ Hexblade 9), Port Mourn
Kain de Draakberg-Dark Knight lvl8-Avergreen(DitA)
So I am thinking that I will do Warlock 1/ Paladin 6/Warlock 14. My concern with blade pact is that by the time I get it and am able to get the invocations to make use of it, I will have better options since I will essentially be getting it 6 levels later than normal. And after thinking about the group dynamic, as much as Tome is cool, we already have a wizard who will have rituals available. And I don't want to step on their toes.
I can see it making sense in some cases to only do paladin 3. If I did that, it would push things back a lot, most notably extra attack, which I wouldn't get until level 8 if I did paladin 3 first.
So, even though I will do paladin 6/warlock 14, I am thinking chain pact. having that max result on healing dice will be very useful. and I also think it will add a lot of color to the character.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeTYXJNzbqM
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and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Good lord. thats pretty awesome. Don't think my DM would let me multiclass all that lol
I think you'll need Str 13 if you want to multiclass Paladin. Late to the party, I know, but better late than never?