Right so I was thinking about a warlock/rogue multiclass idea but I’m a unfamiliar with warlock personally. I was wondering what would be the best patron to benefit a more stealthy warlock. I was thinking archfey but maybe someone else has a better idea?
None of the patrons' expanded spell lists add any super useful stealth spells, so I'd argue Great Old One is the best purely for the 30 ft telepathy at 1st level.
Greater Invisibility is more of a combat spell. 1 minute isn't anywhere close enough to being useful for exploration and the main advantage over regular Invisibility is that you can attack or cast spells at people while invisible.
When you say a stealthy Rogue Warlock, are you thinking assassin, thief, spy or general mischief maker for their style/backstory?
If mischief/thief I'd probably lean towards Fey. They feel like the Patron that would be the fondest of some trickery.
If it's an assassin, I'd probably lean more towards a Fiend or Hexblade for flavor.
Archfey has the aforementioned Invisibility, but also Sleep and Calm Emotions for a bit of set up/clean up for the sneaking , Seeming for disguises, and Phantasmal Force for a distraction. The array of charming can set up a mark/maybe save you if detected, and the Misty Escape can be helpful for an infiltration/speedy exit.
The Fiends Command spell could be handy if the DM is flexible (Command "Unlock" while directing attention to a door or "Disarm" for a trap might be handy). Dark One's Own Luck could be nice to catch a botched sneak or slight of hand roll, but a bit situational, and pretty limited.
Great Old One has some nice tricks, Phantasmal Force makes another appearance, with Detect thoughts for a potential scouting tool. Clairvoyance sounds really handy if you've been to the place before (Like a shop or bank) and Telekinesis could be useful too. Thought shield might be handy in avoiding detection as well? Dominate Beast and Person are also of use if you get caught. Create Thrall seems handy to get a person on the inside too.
The Hexblades Blink might be nice, but it's very short and a little unreliable.
The Undying gets Silence, which could be used creatively, Speak With Dead could be handy if you go the Assassin route for information gathering and Death ward could be a life saver if traps are a concern. I could see the Undying nature being a way to infiltrate through water or gas based blockages, but that's super conditional and depends on how far the DM is willing to take holding your breath for resisting gas/drowning
Not seeing much of use from the Celestial in particular, but don't let that stop you from using it if it works for the character
For an assasin type, Hexblade offers some good smites. Eldritch, for starters, scales with level, Branding Smite levels up, and illuminates invisible foes (good if you're fighting other sneaky ones) and the Staggering (4th) and Banishing (5th level) smites are fairly tasty. On top of Assassin surprised insta-crit, that stuff adds up rill quick.
I've got a Hexblade 5 / Rogue Swashbuckler 3, and she does good situational damage.
the Genie would be incredibly useful because you can sneak yourself and do anything by being inside your Genie's "lamp" Also by having the patron Dao you get access to the merge with stone spell which is always useful or Djinni gives you access to Greater invisibility and seeming. Also you could just wish for the item that you want to steal or just wish to be next to it or inside where you want to go.
A stealthy warlock? Either an Archfey patron or a Devil patron: both would encourage your character to be stealthy. If you have the Eldritch Invocation of Devil's Sight (2024 PHB), then with the 2nd level spell Darkness, you can literally run wild while your opponents are unable to see you.
This blast from the past does bring up something interesting in the changes to 2024. If just using 2024 GOOs silent casting abilities help a lot in stealth and telepathy is a nice add. If using 2014 as well Genie is solid as brought up above for merge with stone and jumping into your lamp tricks. But if just using 2024,any can work but goo takes the lead imo. Pact of the chain with gaze of two minds is a nice choice for the stealthy lock. 60 feet away assuming walls or something is in the way is easily enough to muffle a standard speaking voice for casting spells. Though always I do wonder how a stealthy lock integrates into a party with a mundane rogue. Magic is such a crazy edge with stealth I do wonder if it starts ruining the fun of others. No, no don't do your rogue thing, I'll just send my imp. If the lock is willing to play the backup support for the rogue i think it can work though. You are the hacker on overwatch for the rogue like in spy movies.
Not sure your Patron would really matter. The subclass you pick might be more of a factor and therefore then the patron that would be in that subclass now matters. The Archfey gives you a couple of spells, but are those spells needed if you are already "stealthy"?
The biggest stealth boost a warlock can have is the Familiar which is based on Pact Magic. In addition, it can use Eldritch Invocation to get 24/7 Mage armor as well as arcane eye & invisibly/truesight w/o using slots.
Pact Magic and Eldritch Invocation are not dependent on who the the Patron is.
I am pretty sure when people say patron in this context it is short hand for subclass. And sure invocations give a stealth boost, but don't discount sub class abilities. The spells help a lot even if you are stealthy, as stealthy has requirements that spells can help you automatically meet, they can also help you get places you likely would have trouble getting to with a warlock with their -1 athletics. Then GOOS telepathic communication and psychic spells help a lot, genies vessel and at high levels undeads spirit projection if they don't butcher it like they look like they will from the UA.
to reply, I mentioned Archfey, only due to a few spells. Long and short is, due to the different Eldritch Invocations that are not dependent on subclass, the subclass picked is not a major factor, as any of them can work.
Okay, i just disagree. Being able to cast a group of spells silently helps a lot with stealth, being able to communicate telepathically helps with stealth, being able to and potentially your whole party to jump into your genie vessel while the imp carries you someplace invisibly helps for stealth, being able to go through walls, helps for stealth. While there may not be a ninja sub class, a couple of the sub classes help out quite a bit with stealth. And yes even the spell selection makes a difference. Without multiclassing or a feat you are not going to have expertise with stealth, you aren't going to have all the skills you may want for stealth so spell selection makes a difference.
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Right so I was thinking about a warlock/rogue multiclass idea but I’m a unfamiliar with warlock personally. I was wondering what would be the best patron to benefit a more stealthy warlock. I was thinking archfey but maybe someone else has a better idea?
None of the patrons' expanded spell lists add any super useful stealth spells, so I'd argue Great Old One is the best purely for the 30 ft telepathy at 1st level.
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Archfey has Greater Invisibility though, but that’s a 4th level spell.
The Eldritch Invocations and Pact Boons have more stealthy options than the Patrons do and every Warlock has equal access to them.
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Greater Invisibility is more of a combat spell. 1 minute isn't anywhere close enough to being useful for exploration and the main advantage over regular Invisibility is that you can attack or cast spells at people while invisible.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Archfey with greater invisibility is a stealthy option. Mechanically, hexblade works too.
When you say a stealthy Rogue Warlock, are you thinking assassin, thief, spy or general mischief maker for their style/backstory?
If mischief/thief I'd probably lean towards Fey. They feel like the Patron that would be the fondest of some trickery.
If it's an assassin, I'd probably lean more towards a Fiend or Hexblade for flavor.
Archfey has the aforementioned Invisibility, but also Sleep and Calm Emotions for a bit of set up/clean up for the sneaking , Seeming for disguises, and Phantasmal Force for a distraction. The array of charming can set up a mark/maybe save you if detected, and the Misty Escape can be helpful for an infiltration/speedy exit.
The Fiends Command spell could be handy if the DM is flexible (Command "Unlock" while directing attention to a door or "Disarm" for a trap might be handy). Dark One's Own Luck could be nice to catch a botched sneak or slight of hand roll, but a bit situational, and pretty limited.
Great Old One has some nice tricks, Phantasmal Force makes another appearance, with Detect thoughts for a potential scouting tool. Clairvoyance sounds really handy if you've been to the place before (Like a shop or bank) and Telekinesis could be useful too. Thought shield might be handy in avoiding detection as well? Dominate Beast and Person are also of use if you get caught. Create Thrall seems handy to get a person on the inside too.
The Hexblades Blink might be nice, but it's very short and a little unreliable.
The Undying gets Silence, which could be used creatively, Speak With Dead could be handy if you go the Assassin route for information gathering and Death ward could be a life saver if traps are a concern. I could see the Undying nature being a way to infiltrate through water or gas based blockages, but that's super conditional and depends on how far the DM is willing to take holding your breath for resisting gas/drowning
Not seeing much of use from the Celestial in particular, but don't let that stop you from using it if it works for the character
For an assasin type, Hexblade offers some good smites. Eldritch, for starters, scales with level, Branding Smite levels up, and illuminates invisible foes (good if you're fighting other sneaky ones) and the Staggering (4th) and Banishing (5th level) smites are fairly tasty. On top of Assassin surprised insta-crit, that stuff adds up rill quick.
I've got a Hexblade 5 / Rogue Swashbuckler 3, and she does good situational damage.
the Genie would be incredibly useful because you can sneak yourself and do anything by being inside your Genie's "lamp" Also by having the patron Dao you get access to the merge with stone spell which is always useful or Djinni gives you access to Greater invisibility and seeming. Also you could just wish for the item that you want to steal or just wish to be next to it or inside where you want to go.
A stealthy warlock? Either an Archfey patron or a Devil patron: both would encourage your character to be stealthy. If you have the Eldritch Invocation of Devil's Sight (2024 PHB), then with the 2nd level spell Darkness, you can literally run wild while your opponents are unable to see you.
This blast from the past does bring up something interesting in the changes to 2024. If just using 2024 GOOs silent casting abilities help a lot in stealth and telepathy is a nice add. If using 2014 as well Genie is solid as brought up above for merge with stone and jumping into your lamp tricks. But if just using 2024,any can work but goo takes the lead imo. Pact of the chain with gaze of two minds is a nice choice for the stealthy lock. 60 feet away assuming walls or something is in the way is easily enough to muffle a standard speaking voice for casting spells. Though always I do wonder how a stealthy lock integrates into a party with a mundane rogue. Magic is such a crazy edge with stealth I do wonder if it starts ruining the fun of others. No, no don't do your rogue thing, I'll just send my imp. If the lock is willing to play the backup support for the rogue i think it can work though. You are the hacker on overwatch for the rogue like in spy movies.
Not sure your Patron would really matter. The subclass you pick might be more of a factor and therefore then the patron that would be in that subclass now matters. The Archfey gives you a couple of spells, but are those spells needed if you are already "stealthy"?
The biggest stealth boost a warlock can have is the Familiar which is based on Pact Magic. In addition, it can use Eldritch Invocation to get 24/7 Mage armor as well as arcane eye & invisibly/truesight w/o using slots.
Pact Magic and Eldritch Invocation are not dependent on who the the Patron is.
I am pretty sure when people say patron in this context it is short hand for subclass. And sure invocations give a stealth boost, but don't discount sub class abilities. The spells help a lot even if you are stealthy, as stealthy has requirements that spells can help you automatically meet, they can also help you get places you likely would have trouble getting to with a warlock with their -1 athletics. Then GOOS telepathic communication and psychic spells help a lot, genies vessel and at high levels undeads spirit projection if they don't butcher it like they look like they will from the UA.
to reply, I mentioned Archfey, only due to a few spells. Long and short is, due to the different Eldritch Invocations that are not dependent on subclass, the subclass picked is not a major factor, as any of them can work.
Okay, i just disagree. Being able to cast a group of spells silently helps a lot with stealth, being able to communicate telepathically helps with stealth, being able to and potentially your whole party to jump into your genie vessel while the imp carries you someplace invisibly helps for stealth, being able to go through walls, helps for stealth. While there may not be a ninja sub class, a couple of the sub classes help out quite a bit with stealth. And yes even the spell selection makes a difference. Without multiclassing or a feat you are not going to have expertise with stealth, you aren't going to have all the skills you may want for stealth so spell selection makes a difference.