I have dual wielding feat so it lets me dual wield Battleaxes
One of the battleaxes is my pact weapon , other one is regular offhand.
In normal combat I get 2 attacks with pact weapon because of thirsting blade + 1 attack with off hand: 1d8+3 x2 and 1d8 on off hand
The twist here is that I have a shadowblade spell which my DM have agreed to is a pact blade also. So in a fight I summon the shadow blade (3d8+3) that also have 2 attacks. And an advantage on hit when dim light or darkness. Now I get 3d8+3 x2 and 1d8+1 x2 per round it is summoned . A very effective and fun way to use my pact slot . One slot is used for the shadow blade and the other slot is used for defensive spells or Eldritch smite
Nice thing about the Shadow blade - it is a bonus action to bring forth. Then it can attack twice in the same round
Maximum damage possibility on one round at my current level 7:
Shadow blade: 3d8+3 x2 (Double if crit) (Advantage on hit when dim light or darkness)
Battle axe+1 : 1d8+1 x2 ( Double if crit)
Eldritch smite : 5d8 ( Double if one of the above crit)
And even a bit more if hexblades curse is applied to current target +3 on damage rolls
The twist here is that I have a shadowblade spell which my DM have agreed to is a pact blade also. So in a fight I summon the shadow blade (3d8+3) that also have 2 attacks.
Just FYI, Thirsting Blade says that "You can attack with your pact weapon twice whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.", but that wouldn't apply when using a bonus action to attack. So your combo gets slighlty downgraded to two shadowblade attacks, and one attack with the battleaxe.
Also, I believe that although Hex Warrior lets you use your CHA for attack and damage rolls, the general rule of two-weapon fighting is still in effect: you don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack. Also also, just in case, crit only double the dice, not the fixed bonuses. In the end, it comes down to:
Shadow blade: 3d8+3 x2 (double dice if crit) (Advantage on hit when dim light or darkness)
Battle axe+1 : 1d8+1 (Double dice if crit)
This being said, this is still a combo that is waaaay over what is expected from a lv7 character, but it comes down to your DM allowing the shadowblade to be a Pact Weapon, which boosts it immensely, this is what allows you to double attack, and boosts a huge damage dice even further.
I just hope your DM is as generous with the other players, otherwise combat might become a bit unbalanced ;)
[EDIT] and don't forget your concentration checks each time you get damaged, they might make you lose your weapon ;)
"You can attack with your pact weapon twice whenever you take the Attack action on your turn."
We interpret this as whenever a pact weapon is used as an action . All pact weapons at hands gets the bonus . Even the bonus action. Like a ripple effect
When both pact weapons arent in play , it is as intended
Personally I felt hexblade to be a bit too weak as an all in melee . And these small tweaks to it allows me to get burst phases. And a different way of playing the character
GM has been generous to everyone , but also tough, because the shadow blade is psychic damage, he often pulls out the enemies immune to it, rending it useless from time to time . But it is exellent in caves and rooms without light, giving me the possibility to advantage .
The GM also scales up encounters a bit to balance
What it all boils down to is what the GM allows or don't. And how people choose to interpret the rules given
And yes we remember the Concentration check . This is off course on of the risks.
Thinking about getting War Caster also
(EDIT) yes you are right about the CHA mofifier on off hand attacks , that was a typo from my side . Only used the +1 from magic weapon
We interpret this as whenever a pact weapon is used as an action . All pact weapons at hands gets the bonus . Even the bonus action. Like a ripple effect
[...]
What it all boils down to is what the GM allows or don't. And how people choose to interpret the rules given
I don't want to be a party-pooper, but the rules are clear that this isn't how this works. Obviously you may house-rule it, but there's really not much room for interpretation in rules as written here.
That feature is similar to the Fighter's Extra Attack feature, with the caveat that it only applies to the pact weapon.
The Attack Actions is defined p192, with a short passage mentioning that this is where the Extra Attack feature applies.
Two-Weapon Fighting is defined p195, it is not an attack action, it is simply a possibility for your bonus action that appears if you use the attack action.
A consequence of your interpretation, for instance, would be that the Monk's Flurry of Blows would become useless past lv5, since anybody with Extra Attack would get two attacks with their bonus action anyway.
If I had to tweak the Hexblade, I would probably focus more on his survival than on his damage output: he can consistently out-damage (or at least keep up with) a Barbarian after a certain level, but his D8 makes him extremely squishy.
I'm not saying "your fun is wrong", and if you thought about it and decided it makes everything more fun, all the more power to you! But I would be remiss if I didn't point out that this isn't working as intended. Your combo, as fun as he might be, would probably be refused at almost any table. I consider myself a pretty generous DM as well, especially when it comes to loot and class features, and I've buffed Warlocks a fair amount in my games, but I would not grant any of this to a player of mine.
Hey! You are not pooping my party :) I do not argue this is houseruling . It certantly is!
And actually this combo works very well with our Warlock, Paladin, Ranger and Sorcerer team . Alot of damagedealers, so we are relying on getting things down fast . And I am actually not the one that kills the most. The ranger does . And sorcerer does the Aoe, while the paladin is tanking in front with me , smiting everything to death.
GMs does what they mean is best for THEIR game . And we all have fun . And that is what matters!
I don't use Shadowblade, even though it is powerful and thematic...
Problem is, in my opinion, that HEX + SB uses both spell slots. SB + Eldritch Smite uses both spell slots. And, you can't combo Eldritch Smite (or Hexblade's Curse...) in the same round that you cast the SB spell, since that uses your one and only Bonus Action (which also means you couldn't use a bonus action to Dual Wield...)
My Hexblade wants to have the Smite slot handy for a crit, and be able to do some AoE Shatter or Hunger of Hadar action if needed.
Hex and shadowblade are both concentration anyway, so you can't have them both up at the same time. So it's shadow blade instead of hex.
Hex would do 2d6 damage (considering you hit both time), whereas the shadow blade is 3d8 worth an attack roll (although normally using your strength/dex, so more likely to miss than s regular attack).
And lets not forget that you need to take a shortrest after EVERY combat in order for this build to be effective. That will never happen in the campaigns I am in. But yes, for a onehitwonder fight this is fairly nice.
When I play this build I have to assess what I meet before I use Shadow blade . Where I am (because of dim light/darkness advantage)
I rarely use the Eldritch Smite
So when I start battle I cast bonus action SB summon . then I attack with the SB (3d8 x2 Double attack because of thirsting blade)
Next round I assess if I should use the Hexblades curse . Usually if there is a big mob or boss . Then I use it is a bonus action and then attack with SB (3d8 x2 Double attack because of thirsting blade)
Or else I will just use SB twice and offhand twice ( 3d8 x 2 and 1d8+1 x 2 )
I still have that slot extra for emergency or onehitwonder with Eldritch Smite , but I usually just save it for another fight . To be able to summon SB again
If I am far away I use Eldritch blast.
And if I don`t have any more slots I still can Eldritch Blast from afar, or Attack twice with battle axe+1 main hand and Battle axe off hand ( 1x8+1 x2 and 1d8)
What I like about this build , is that I can make som choices
Hi!
In my GMs campaign I have created a Hexblade lock with Pact of the Blade.
https://ddb.ac/characters/5290578/B78sSg
I have dual wielding feat so it lets me dual wield Battleaxes
One of the battleaxes is my pact weapon , other one is regular offhand.
In normal combat I get 2 attacks with pact weapon because of thirsting blade + 1 attack with off hand: 1d8+3 x2 and 1d8 on off hand
The twist here is that I have a shadowblade spell which my DM have agreed to is a pact blade also. So in a fight I summon the shadow blade (3d8+3) that also have 2 attacks. And an advantage on hit when dim light or darkness. Now I get 3d8+3 x2 and 1d8+1 x2 per round it is summoned . A very effective and fun way to use my pact slot . One slot is used for the shadow blade and the other slot is used for defensive spells or Eldritch smite
Nice thing about the Shadow blade - it is a bonus action to bring forth. Then it can attack twice in the same round
Maximum damage possibility on one round at my current level 7:
Shadow blade: 3d8+3 x2 (Double if crit) (Advantage on hit when dim light or darkness)
Battle axe+1 : 1d8+1 x2 ( Double if crit)
Eldritch smite : 5d8 ( Double if one of the above crit)
And even a bit more if hexblades curse is applied to current target +3 on damage rolls
(Edited CHA modifier on off hand from +4 to +1)
Just FYI, Thirsting Blade says that "You can attack with your pact weapon twice whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.", but that wouldn't apply when using a bonus action to attack. So your combo gets slighlty downgraded to two shadowblade attacks, and one attack with the battleaxe.
Also, I believe that although Hex Warrior lets you use your CHA for attack and damage rolls, the general rule of two-weapon fighting is still in effect: you don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack. Also also, just in case, crit only double the dice, not the fixed bonuses. In the end, it comes down to:
Shadow blade: 3d8+3 x2 (double dice if crit) (Advantage on hit when dim light or darkness)
Battle axe+1 : 1d8+1 (Double dice if crit)
This being said, this is still a combo that is waaaay over what is expected from a lv7 character, but it comes down to your DM allowing the shadowblade to be a Pact Weapon, which boosts it immensely, this is what allows you to double attack, and boosts a huge damage dice even further.
I just hope your DM is as generous with the other players, otherwise combat might become a bit unbalanced ;)
[EDIT] and don't forget your concentration checks each time you get damaged, they might make you lose your weapon ;)
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He is generous :)
"You can attack with your pact weapon twice whenever you take the Attack action on your turn."
We interpret this as whenever a pact weapon is used as an action . All pact weapons at hands gets the bonus . Even the bonus action. Like a ripple effect
When both pact weapons arent in play , it is as intended
Personally I felt hexblade to be a bit too weak as an all in melee . And these small tweaks to it allows me to get burst phases. And a different way of playing the character
GM has been generous to everyone , but also tough, because the shadow blade is psychic damage, he often pulls out the enemies immune to it, rending it useless from time to time . But it is exellent in caves and rooms without light, giving me the possibility to advantage .
The GM also scales up encounters a bit to balance
What it all boils down to is what the GM allows or don't. And how people choose to interpret the rules given
And yes we remember the Concentration check . This is off course on of the risks.
Thinking about getting War Caster also
(EDIT) yes you are right about the CHA mofifier on off hand attacks , that was a typo from my side . Only used the +1 from magic weapon
I don't want to be a party-pooper, but the rules are clear that this isn't how this works. Obviously you may house-rule it, but there's really not much room for interpretation in rules as written here.
That feature is similar to the Fighter's Extra Attack feature, with the caveat that it only applies to the pact weapon.
The Attack Actions is defined p192, with a short passage mentioning that this is where the Extra Attack feature applies.
Two-Weapon Fighting is defined p195, it is not an attack action, it is simply a possibility for your bonus action that appears if you use the attack action.
A consequence of your interpretation, for instance, would be that the Monk's Flurry of Blows would become useless past lv5, since anybody with Extra Attack would get two attacks with their bonus action anyway.
If I had to tweak the Hexblade, I would probably focus more on his survival than on his damage output: he can consistently out-damage (or at least keep up with) a Barbarian after a certain level, but his D8 makes him extremely squishy.
I'm not saying "your fun is wrong", and if you thought about it and decided it makes everything more fun, all the more power to you! But I would be remiss if I didn't point out that this isn't working as intended. Your combo, as fun as he might be, would probably be refused at almost any table. I consider myself a pretty generous DM as well, especially when it comes to loot and class features, and I've buffed Warlocks a fair amount in my games, but I would not grant any of this to a player of mine.
Click to learn to put cool-looking tooltips in your messages!
Hey! You are not pooping my party :) I do not argue this is houseruling . It certantly is!
And actually this combo works very well with our Warlock, Paladin, Ranger and Sorcerer team . Alot of damagedealers, so we are relying on getting things down fast . And I am actually not the one that kills the most. The ranger does . And sorcerer does the Aoe, while the paladin is tanking in front with me , smiting everything to death.
GMs does what they mean is best for THEIR game . And we all have fun . And that is what matters!
Even going RAW, your combo is still interesting to go crit fishing, especially with eldritch smite ;)
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You mean by RAW , Critfishing with Pact Battleaxe 2x and offhand attack battleaxe+1?
Hexblade curse letting you crit on a 19 combos greatly with shadowblade and two-weapon fighting, for extra attacks.
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I don't use Shadowblade, even though it is powerful and thematic...
Problem is, in my opinion, that HEX + SB uses both spell slots. SB + Eldritch Smite uses both spell slots. And, you can't combo Eldritch Smite (or Hexblade's Curse...) in the same round that you cast the SB spell, since that uses your one and only Bonus Action (which also means you couldn't use a bonus action to Dual Wield...)
My Hexblade wants to have the Smite slot handy for a crit, and be able to do some AoE Shatter or Hunger of Hadar action if needed.
Hex and shadowblade are both concentration anyway, so you can't have them both up at the same time. So it's shadow blade instead of hex.
Hex would do 2d6 damage (considering you hit both time), whereas the shadow blade is 3d8 worth an attack roll (although normally using your strength/dex, so more likely to miss than s regular attack).
Click to learn to put cool-looking tooltips in your messages!
And lets not forget that you need to take a shortrest after EVERY combat in order for this build to be effective. That will never happen in the campaigns I am in. But yes, for a onehitwonder fight this is fairly nice.
When I play this build I have to assess what I meet before I use Shadow blade . Where I am (because of dim light/darkness advantage)
I rarely use the Eldritch Smite
So when I start battle I cast bonus action SB summon . then I attack with the SB (3d8 x2 Double attack because of thirsting blade)
Next round I assess if I should use the Hexblades curse . Usually if there is a big mob or boss . Then I use it is a bonus action and then attack with SB (3d8 x2 Double attack because of thirsting blade)
Or else I will just use SB twice and offhand twice ( 3d8 x 2 and 1d8+1 x 2 )
I still have that slot extra for emergency or onehitwonder with Eldritch Smite , but I usually just save it for another fight . To be able to summon SB again
If I am far away I use Eldritch blast.
And if I don`t have any more slots I still can Eldritch Blast from afar, or Attack twice with battle axe+1 main hand and Battle axe off hand ( 1x8+1 x2 and 1d8)
What I like about this build , is that I can make som choices