Hello fellow GOOlocks, I was curious if anybody has any opinions on Hunger of Hadar vs Evard's Black Tentacles? I know that neither spell is really first-pick material, but they are fitting for GOOlocks. From a flavor and roleplay perspective, they are among my favorite spells for my Warlock. I wondered if anybody had some experience as to which was better? By the time I reached a high enough level to cast Evard's Black Tentacles, our group had to put the campaign on hold due to COVID and I didn't get time to test it. Any thoughts on what spell I should come back to the table with when we are able to play again?
Evard’s Black Tentacles was NASTY when my DM used it against me! I was playing a wizard and I literally spent the entire combat trying to escape from it.
I wish I could have had an opportunity to test that spell before quarantine! I'm leaning more towards it being my pick, but to be honest they seem so similar that I don't know which to choose. I really wish they scaled when cast at a higher level!
In my opinion Hunger of Hadar is overall better since it covers a much larger area, blocks vision and it's guaranteed to deal damage if you start your turn in the area.
Black Tentacles is basically a really expensive Web or Entangle. The bludgeoning damage is nice, but not enough to justify the higher spell level, much shorter duration and the fact that it lets victims escape with their choice of Dexterity or Strength.
One thing that should be also noticed here is that Hunger of Hadar takes a concentration slot, so you cannot f.ex. use Hex at the same time. Black tentacles however do not require concentration. This makes the black tentacles actually slightly better spell IMO.
Personally I think evards is better in general due to the restrain. But if you build around it a bit like devils sight and repelling blast you might be able to keep people pretty solidly stuck in there due to its size and difficult terrain so maybe hungar comes out ahead. I always think when I see spells like hunger that its a crime it does not scale at all with spell slots. Virtually all warlock spells should.
Personally I think evards is better in general due to the restrain. But if you build around it a bit like devils sight and repelling blast you might be able to keep people pretty solidly stuck in there due to its size and difficult terrain so maybe hungar comes out ahead. I always think when I see spells like hunger that its a crime it does not scale at all with spell slots. Virtually all warlock spells should.
So much this. Who designs a spell exclusive to a class that cannot downlevel their spells and gives them no benefit for being upcast??
Back on the topic to Hunger of Hadar vs Black Tentacles: As long as you're only casting with Warlock Spell Slots, their spell level doesn't matter as they do not gain any benefit from being upcast anyway. So we just pick what has more impact.
Black Tentacles restrain, which is a huge boon for your party. If they want to get free, they have to use up their action as well. Magical Bludgeoning damage should also be barely resisted by anything and does slightly more damage than Hunger of Hadar. Also, difficult terrain. On the other hand, Hunger of Hadar is bigger and creates a zone of darkness. I believe Devil's Sight can see through it? This would only you give an advantage, but not your team. The damage is slightly lower than Black Tentacles', as well as cold damge which is fairly resisted against. The acid damage part is reliant on a DEX save as well, and enemies can simply walk out of the area.
I would tend towards Black Tentacles. It offers a restrain, which enemies have to use their action to get rid off and higher damage. Even if they manage to dodge the restrain, they still have to go through difficult terrain. On the other hand, Hunger of Hadar is bigger... that's mostly it. Unless you specifically want to block vision it doesn't compare to Black Tentacles imo.
The lack of benefit from upcasting is really unfortunate for both spells. I said in another reply, I want to homebrew a similar spell that does benefit from upcasting. It really sucks to waste a 5th level spell slot on the equivalent of a 3rd or 4th level spell. Thank you for your analysis, that is exactly the kind of comparison I was looking for! I will be packing Evard's over Hadar on my warlock.
The lack of benefit from upcasting is really unfortunate for both spells. I said in another reply, I want to homebrew a similar spell that does benefit from upcasting. It really sucks to waste a 5th level spell slot on the equivalent of a 3rd or 4th level spell. Thank you for your analysis, that is exactly the kind of comparison I was looking for! I will be packing Evard's over Hadar on my warlock.
I don't mind it so much for evards as its a wizard spell. But hunger is a lock spell and with how locks automatically cast their spells at their highest slot any spell designed for them that doesn't upscale is criminal.
Evard’s Black Tentacles was NASTY when my DM used it against me! I was playing a wizard and I literally spent the entire combat trying to escape from it.
Professional computer geek
I wish I could have had an opportunity to test that spell before quarantine! I'm leaning more towards it being my pick, but to be honest they seem so similar that I don't know which to choose. I really wish they scaled when cast at a higher level!
In my opinion Hunger of Hadar is overall better since it covers a much larger area, blocks vision and it's guaranteed to deal damage if you start your turn in the area.
Black Tentacles is basically a really expensive Web or Entangle. The bludgeoning damage is nice, but not enough to justify the higher spell level, much shorter duration and the fact that it lets victims escape with their choice of Dexterity or Strength.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
That is true. I am fond of that spell, both as a player and a DM.
One thing that should be also noticed here is that Hunger of Hadar takes a concentration slot, so you cannot f.ex. use Hex at the same time. Black tentacles however do not require concentration. This makes the black tentacles actually slightly better spell IMO.
Unfortunately Black Tentacles does take concentration :( that would definitely push it over the top if it didn't!
Personally I think evards is better in general due to the restrain. But if you build around it a bit like devils sight and repelling blast you might be able to keep people pretty solidly stuck in there due to its size and difficult terrain so maybe hungar comes out ahead. I always think when I see spells like hunger that its a crime it does not scale at all with spell slots. Virtually all warlock spells should.
So much this. Who designs a spell exclusive to a class that cannot downlevel their spells and gives them no benefit for being upcast??
Back on the topic to Hunger of Hadar vs Black Tentacles:
As long as you're only casting with Warlock Spell Slots, their spell level doesn't matter as they do not gain any benefit from being upcast anyway. So we just pick what has more impact.
Black Tentacles restrain, which is a huge boon for your party. If they want to get free, they have to use up their action as well. Magical Bludgeoning damage should also be barely resisted by anything and does slightly more damage than Hunger of Hadar. Also, difficult terrain.
On the other hand, Hunger of Hadar is bigger and creates a zone of darkness. I believe Devil's Sight can see through it? This would only you give an advantage, but not your team. The damage is slightly lower than Black Tentacles', as well as cold damge which is fairly resisted against. The acid damage part is reliant on a DEX save as well, and enemies can simply walk out of the area.
I would tend towards Black Tentacles. It offers a restrain, which enemies have to use their action to get rid off and higher damage. Even if they manage to dodge the restrain, they still have to go through difficult terrain.
On the other hand, Hunger of Hadar is bigger... that's mostly it. Unless you specifically want to block vision it doesn't compare to Black Tentacles imo.
I completely agree about the upcasting limitations for both spells! I want to homebrew a similar spell that benefits from upcasting to be honest.
The lack of benefit from upcasting is really unfortunate for both spells. I said in another reply, I want to homebrew a similar spell that does benefit from upcasting. It really sucks to waste a 5th level spell slot on the equivalent of a 3rd or 4th level spell. Thank you for your analysis, that is exactly the kind of comparison I was looking for! I will be packing Evard's over Hadar on my warlock.
I don't mind it so much for evards as its a wizard spell. But hunger is a lock spell and with how locks automatically cast their spells at their highest slot any spell designed for them that doesn't upscale is criminal.
Hopefully they will issue some unearthed arcana or something for that at some point :/