So I'm running Spelljammer Academy for some friends and they are now level 2 since they survived the first chapter. One of them made a Conjuration wizard with the criminal background and now that he's level 2 he started talking about using Minor Conjuration to create purple worm poison with this ability, but can he do that? I was vaguely aware that people do this in campaigns as the poison doesn't weigh 10 pounds nor is it magical and such, but I didn't think about that when accepting his character nor did he mention it before session 1.
So is it possible to create (what I assume is) a vial with this rare poison (a liquid) in the vial with this ability?
If it's possible I'll likely have him make a history check when he tries to make it the first time to see if he has seen it before/knows what the poison is like, etc. and if he passes it I'll probably use the rule that it disappears if it takes or deals any damage, but I still want to make sure it's even possible in the first place.
Yes it is possible to create a vial containing a liquid (poison or otherwise). But, one can argue that the instant some of that liquid leaves the vial it becomes less of that object - and liquid in general is not an object. You can even say that the vial losing some of the liquid it was containing is almost like losing hit points. So it would be well within your right to say they can conjure the vial of poison but as soon as any of it leaves the vial the whole thing disappears - making it useless for combat.
And you should do that. Being able to add 14d6 damage as often as you want, infinitely, is broken.
Yes it is possible to create a vial containing a liquid (poison or otherwise). But, one can argue that the instant some of that liquid leaves the vial it becomes less of that object - and liquid in general is not an object. You can even say that the vial losing some of the liquid it was containing is almost like losing hit points. So it would be well within your right to say they can conjure the vial of poison but as soon as any of it leaves the vial the whole thing disappears - making it useless for combat.
And you should do that. Being able to add 14d6 damage as often as you want, infinitely, is broken.
Yeah that's why I made this threat because I absolutely didn't want him to do that 14d6 damage at level 2.
Anyways, thank you very much for the info and tips!
Another route you can go with stopping it is to have it to like 1 damage or something, the items conjured disappear once they do damage. With something like poison after the first hit point of damage the rest of it disappears from the victims body effectively nullifying it and the rest of the damage. This ability is fine on the 14th level bard of creation ability but is and needs to be much more limited on the unlimited use 2nd level wizards ability.
Another solution can be that the conjurer can not create something that he did not experienced in the past. Therefore he can not create purpleworm poison because he had never seen it or experienced it before.
Another solution can be that the conjurer can not create something that he did not experienced in the past. Therefore he can not create purpleworm poison because he had never seen it or experienced it before.
He gave himself the criminal background, so that's how he justifies knowing/having seen the poison.
I would say he can make it, but make it less potent. Maybe since he is relatively new at conjuring he can’t make it in its natural form, so it deals 2d6 damage RN and increases by 1d6 every time he levels. This way he gets a reward for creativity but he’s not OP.
what I would do in this case would change the words of the ability to "object you are familiar with" in opposed to seen. this way I could say there character doesn't understand the full extent of what the poison is unless they themselves have made, consumed or studied the poison. this means that they need to have at one point owned the poison which would be hard for a low level character to get access too. this doesn't stop them using lower level poisons but its a big finical cost (even weak poisons are expensive) for a slightly higher power level. this way there character concept isn't ruined of a poison slinging mage but they don't one shot every thing.
I think in situations like this its alright, perhaps even preferable, to just talk game balance rather than trying to parse out the rules language and lore. Its OP for a lvl 2 character to have unlimited access to that.
Chapter 15 of the basic rules defines an object as needing to be discrete and not composed of other objects. Poison is not discrete. Nor is poison in a vial not two things.
This definition is unfortunate and constricting to conjuration wizards. I would remind your player that this is the definition and it can be strictly enforced or loosely enforced. Purple worm exploits at 2nd level will get a strict enforcement. The goal is to be creative not exploitive.
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So I'm running Spelljammer Academy for some friends and they are now level 2 since they survived the first chapter. One of them made a Conjuration wizard with the criminal background and now that he's level 2 he started talking about using Minor Conjuration to create purple worm poison with this ability, but can he do that? I was vaguely aware that people do this in campaigns as the poison doesn't weigh 10 pounds nor is it magical and such, but I didn't think about that when accepting his character nor did he mention it before session 1.
So is it possible to create (what I assume is) a vial with this rare poison (a liquid) in the vial with this ability?
If it's possible I'll likely have him make a history check when he tries to make it the first time to see if he has seen it before/knows what the poison is like, etc. and if he passes it I'll probably use the rule that it disappears if it takes or deals any damage, but I still want to make sure it's even possible in the first place.
Yes it is possible to create a vial containing a liquid (poison or otherwise). But, one can argue that the instant some of that liquid leaves the vial it becomes less of that object - and liquid in general is not an object. You can even say that the vial losing some of the liquid it was containing is almost like losing hit points. So it would be well within your right to say they can conjure the vial of poison but as soon as any of it leaves the vial the whole thing disappears - making it useless for combat.
And you should do that. Being able to add 14d6 damage as often as you want, infinitely, is broken.
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Yeah that's why I made this threat because I absolutely didn't want him to do that 14d6 damage at level 2.
Anyways, thank you very much for the info and tips!
Another route you can go with stopping it is to have it to like 1 damage or something, the items conjured disappear once they do damage. With something like poison after the first hit point of damage the rest of it disappears from the victims body effectively nullifying it and the rest of the damage. This ability is fine on the 14th level bard of creation ability but is and needs to be much more limited on the unlimited use 2nd level wizards ability.
Another solution can be that the conjurer can not create something that he did not experienced in the past. Therefore he can not create purpleworm poison because he had never seen it or experienced it before.
He gave himself the criminal background, so that's how he justifies knowing/having seen the poison.
I would say he can make it, but make it less potent. Maybe since he is relatively new at conjuring he can’t make it in its natural form, so it deals 2d6 damage RN and increases by 1d6 every time he levels. This way he gets a reward for creativity but he’s not OP.
what I would do in this case would change the words of the ability to "object you are familiar with" in opposed to seen. this way I could say there character doesn't understand the full extent of what the poison is unless they themselves have made, consumed or studied the poison. this means that they need to have at one point owned the poison which would be hard for a low level character to get access too. this doesn't stop them using lower level poisons but its a big finical cost (even weak poisons are expensive) for a slightly higher power level. this way there character concept isn't ruined of a poison slinging mage but they don't one shot every thing.
I think in situations like this its alright, perhaps even preferable, to just talk game balance rather than trying to parse out the rules language and lore. Its OP for a lvl 2 character to have unlimited access to that.
But would it be the same dc save and would it hold it's same value as what purple worm poison sells for
Chapter 15 of the basic rules defines an object as needing to be discrete and not composed of other objects. Poison is not discrete. Nor is poison in a vial not two things.
This definition is unfortunate and constricting to conjuration wizards. I would remind your player that this is the definition and it can be strictly enforced or loosely enforced. Purple worm exploits at 2nd level will get a strict enforcement. The goal is to be creative not exploitive.