In my opinion, I think that Chronurgy is much more powerful than Divination, but people do often disagree with this, and a lot of interesting discussions have come from this topic, so I'd like to know any thoughts between the two.
Well, Chronurgy is substantially more powerful than Divination, yes.
The one thing that Divination Wizards have going for them is that their “substitution” of rolls can be done at any given point; so long as it happens before the dice are rolled.
They also have the benefit of knowing exactly what the number on the dice will be.
Comparatively to the Chronurgy Wizard, THEY must use their ability to re-roll as a Reaction; and they cannot know the number which will be rolled.
Having said that…the Chronurgy Wizard has the benefit of using this ability to substitute “bad” rolls very reactively when they NEED to; without the agonizing over whether or not the new number with be effective, like Divination Wizards might.
But that’s nit-picky…both of those features are incredibly powerful & useful.
…it’s the fact that Chronurgy Wizards get a boost to their initiative equal to their intelligence modifier…and the ability to immobilize a target as a bonus action…and “save” powerful spells in a marble to give to allies…AND the incredible capstone ability to automatically succeed on a vital roll…REPEATEDLY if they wish to gamble with exhaustion mechanics…
…and Divination Wizards get to save spell slots when they use divination spells; of which there are very little…and a handful of situational sight-based boons.
Chronurgy Wizards are flush with goodies at every point their subclass gets a new features; where the Divination Wizard only gets situational abilities that might never factor in.
Chronurgy is absurdly powerful & undeniably fun…but it always comes with the courtesy of asking your GM if they’re alright with you playing it at the table.
They’re that strong.
Divination Wizard’s are oddly more balanced because they have that one, potentially encounter-saving ability…and then some more "humble” features.
Any divination wizard worth his salt will create another divination spell besides mind spike, say around 4th or 5th level. Then use it all the time, after all it is your spell. Suddenly you are saving spell slots all the time. Does not have to be an attack spell either, a post combat spell that is upcastable will do fine as well. ("Show the past of my defeated enemy" for example)
Going through their abilities, properly...
Portent is far more powerful than Chronal shift, the 30 ft rule is harsh limit, even if you can use it more often. The preknowledge of the portents makes 1 and 2 as worthwhile as the 20. Intelligence init bonus is there to make up for the lack of power of the chronal shift. It does so, but this is at best a draw, but really the Divination wizard comes out ahead.
Momentary Statis is on par with the Expert Divination, assuming you make at least once 4th or higher Divination spell that you use a lot. If it is a good spell, the Diviner remains superior.
Arcane Abeyance is better than third eye, but not a huge amount given the 4th or lower limitation and the chance of a wasted spell slot. At best it brings the Chrono on par with the Diviner.
Convergent Future is better than Greater Portent, which is why it has the harsher limit of both a 60 ft limit and also the exhaustion, which can screw you over. Still, the Chrono has achieved superiority
This would make the divination wizard the more powerful choice up until 9th level, where it evens out, with the Chrono taking the lead at 14th.
BUT
The Chrono spells are also better than standard wizard spells.
Gift of Alacricity, Fortune's Favor, Pulse Wave all are great spells
If you let the Chrono take these spells but prevent the Divination wizard from taking them, l give the Chono a clear advantage, starting at 1st level all the way up to 20th.
In my opinion, I think that Chronurgy is much more powerful than Divination, but people do often disagree with this, and a lot of interesting discussions have come from this topic, so I'd like to know any thoughts between the two.
Well, Chronurgy is substantially more powerful than Divination, yes.
The one thing that Divination Wizards have going for them is that their “substitution” of rolls can be done at any given point; so long as it happens before the dice are rolled.
They also have the benefit of knowing exactly what the number on the dice will be.
Comparatively to the Chronurgy Wizard, THEY must use their ability to re-roll as a Reaction; and they cannot know the number which will be rolled.
Having said that…the Chronurgy Wizard has the benefit of using this ability to substitute “bad” rolls very reactively when they NEED to; without the agonizing over whether or not the new number with be effective, like Divination Wizards might.
But that’s nit-picky…both of those features are incredibly powerful & useful.
…it’s the fact that Chronurgy Wizards get a boost to their initiative equal to their intelligence modifier…and the ability to immobilize a target as a bonus action…and “save” powerful spells in a marble to give to allies…AND the incredible capstone ability to automatically succeed on a vital roll…REPEATEDLY if they wish to gamble with exhaustion mechanics…
…and Divination Wizards get to save spell slots when they use divination spells; of which there are very little…and a handful of situational sight-based boons.
Chronurgy Wizards are flush with goodies at every point their subclass gets a new features; where the Divination Wizard only gets situational abilities that might never factor in.
Chronurgy is absurdly powerful & undeniably fun…but it always comes with the courtesy of asking your GM if they’re alright with you playing it at the table.
They’re that strong.
Divination Wizard’s are oddly more balanced because they have that one, potentially encounter-saving ability…and then some more "humble” features.
Any divination wizard worth his salt will create another divination spell besides mind spike, say around 4th or 5th level. Then use it all the time, after all it is your spell. Suddenly you are saving spell slots all the time. Does not have to be an attack spell either, a post combat spell that is upcastable will do fine as well. ("Show the past of my defeated enemy" for example)
Going through their abilities, properly...
Portent is far more powerful than Chronal shift, the 30 ft rule is harsh limit, even if you can use it more often. The preknowledge of the portents makes 1 and 2 as worthwhile as the 20. Intelligence init bonus is there to make up for the lack of power of the chronal shift. It does so, but this is at best a draw, but really the Divination wizard comes out ahead.
Momentary Statis is on par with the Expert Divination, assuming you make at least once 4th or higher Divination spell that you use a lot. If it is a good spell, the Diviner remains superior.
Arcane Abeyance is better than third eye, but not a huge amount given the 4th or lower limitation and the chance of a wasted spell slot. At best it brings the Chrono on par with the Diviner.
Convergent Future is better than Greater Portent, which is why it has the harsher limit of both a 60 ft limit and also the exhaustion, which can screw you over. Still, the Chrono has achieved superiority
This would make the divination wizard the more powerful choice up until 9th level, where it evens out, with the Chrono taking the lead at 14th.
BUT
The Chrono spells are also better than standard wizard spells.
Gift of Alacricity, Fortune's Favor, Pulse Wave all are great spells
If you let the Chrono take these spells but prevent the Divination wizard from taking them, l give the Chono a clear advantage, starting at 1st level all the way up to 20th.