Are Wizards Overpowered

Wizards aren't really overpowered in the beginning unless they play their cards right.

Example Spell - Prestidigitation: Can create a Trinket for 1 hour. This trinket can be a ball of feredium.

The trinkets created by Prestidigitation can't deal damage, so I don't think whatever "feredium" is would make a Wizard overpowered.

I'm voting no. Being "OP" is a very context-reliant thing. Generally, no class is OP in normal play.

If a wizard is high enough level with lots of time for preparing and the funds - they are the most powerful class in D&D. They can create infinite armies, become immortal, acquire infinite wealth and many amazing things. However, that is not really something a player is going to do. In terms of going on adventures they are not OP. In terms of PVP they're not OP. No class is. 

Quote from ForgottenKnight13 >>

Example Spell - Prestidigitation: Can create a Trinket for 1 hour. This trinket can be a ball of feredium.

 
This is a very weird example. 

I don't know what feredium is, and when I try to google there's no real definitive result - closest is a syrupy ingredient in eye drops. Based on context I assume that's not what you're going for. By 2014 rules a trinket is a "simple item lightly touched by mystery" so you're not creating radioactive rods or unstable chemicals - these are not "simple". 2024 rules in the spell state the trinket you create "can deal no damage and has no monetary worth". Anything that can be used dangerously would fail both requirements. Conjuring weird chemicals for odd reactions and such things would also require heavy DM involvement and there's actually stuff in the new DMG to disallow such things because D&D worlds are based in Magic not Physics. Things exist because of magical nature not due to atoms and molecules. 

Your example is also weird because Prestidigitation isn't an exclusive Wizard spell. It's also for Bards, Sorcerers, Artificers and Warlocks. It can also be taken by 2014 High Elves and High Half-Elves, it can be taken by various subclasses like Arcane Trickster Rogues, Eldritch Knight Fighters, Arcana Domain Clerics - and more. There's also feats, such as Magic Initiate, that can let any character gain it. So given that basically any character can gain, or even start with, the cantrip I'm not sure why is an argument for Wizards, specifically, being OP? 

Op compared to what? Compared to my homebrew class GOD that forces you to make a do 10000 Intelligence check or take 700000000000 d20 da,abe then no. But seriously it is probably 3rd most powerful class or maybe 2nd. 

Quote from ForgottenKnight13 >>

Wizards aren't really overpowered in the beginning unless they play their cards right.

Example Spell - Prestidigitation: Can create a Trinket for 1 hour. This trinket can be a ball of feredium.

 
No idea what fededium is (doens't come up on a search), but if it has a monetary value, it can't be created as trinket.

"Minor Creation. You create a nonmagical trinket or an illusory image that can fit in your hand. It lasts until the end of your next turn. A trinket can deal no damage and has no monetary worth."

OP is relative. Pick a strong 2024 subclass from various full caster classes, make good choices, and play it well, maybe even creatively...and people will think you're OP. Im not even talking about multiclass. I was told my character was OP as a Stars Druid (I disagreed). You can do that with various classes/subclasses, especially full spellcasting classes. You can certainly do that with wizard if you build it well.

Define OP.  like all full casters they are on the top of the heap, Wizards are in the top 3 of the full casters. Depending on how much you can leverage their spell book they can be the most powerful class in the game. Whether that is OP depends on how you define it or whether you think that level of power should be the baseline or not. If martials started gaining supernatural abilities through martial training, leaping leagues in a bound, punching their way through mountains, death blows, mirror image style effects through fast movement, leveraging their force of will into charm, fear effects etc placing them on par with full casters, then wizards would be the norm.  But when you are the top of the heap or top 3 yeah depending on how you define it they may be OP. 

Agreed. 

Low level wizards do 4 points of cantrip damage per turn and run around in combat in a robe.

High level wizards can cast wish and alter the favric of the universe, make endless clones of themselves so they never die, create simulacrums of themselves to double their action economy, cast gate and open a portal to demons and devils, meteor swarm does 140 damage on average to a massive area.

A level 1 wizard is a combat liability.

Once they get fireball they carry their weight.

Once they get 6th level spells, they get extreme levels of power.

They carry their weight even before fireball. Even at 1st level they get 2 1st level spells. So sure some rounds they might do 4 damage or something from cantrips. But other rounds they hit for 2d12, or 3d6 to a small area, or make a couple targets fall unconscious etc. People especially at low levels are not doing 6 encounters per day, its probably 2 at low levels. The party just does not have enough hit point resources to go longer than that. So a cantrip, but 1 pretty solid spell for that level per fight. And if the spell is something like witch bolt its 2d12 round one, then 1d12+cantrip every round after that.  They will end up doing more to the ogre(big solo monster for their level) than the fighter did. 

Sure at those levels they have weaknesses so they are not ruling the universe from beyond the grave or anything, but they easily carry their weight form level 1 on. 

Below level 5? No. Level 5-10? Depends on the spells they stock. Level 11+? Absolutely. Also, I googled what feredium is, and the top result is this conversation 😬. I somehow don’t think it’s a real thing.

Was recently in a game and we where getting up there past level 10 and one of the Melee players called one of my spells OP cause I up cast it to 4th level (Chromatic Orb) and got three bounces (actually would of had 4 but ran out of targets).  I got around 30 something damage each roll for around 70ish total damage.    

Next round he does his attack and almost does 100 damage with all the attacks.  Same attacks he can do ever round so not counting action surge or monks fist of fury or anything like that.  I simply said, "You call mages OP when you just did the same damage I did and do it every round.  I'm limited to spell slots.  Your also walking around with almost three times my HP.   Can you just shut up.... YOu only think they are OP cause you don't like they can some times with lucky rolls match your damage."     While yes some of the spells can be a bit powerful but your very limited on those as you might only have a slot or two to cast them.

Same char had issues with Sylunes Viper spell thing it's OP when you use the snake attack.  Not understanding that I still have to hit him, that is the save (that was their complaint it got no save).   You would think a melee would be happy if your take out the big guy actions for one turn.   The funny thing is next long rest I switched it out for another spell to not deal with the drama of the player.   We get into a mini big boss fight and him and the other melee where being constantly stunned locked every round to the point the Barbarian went down.   Guess who where the only ones doing damage?  The casters of the group (me, the cleric and the warlock) that didn't keep failing our mental rolls.  The monk uses stun attack all the time (now I think I get why he didn't like viper, it took away his own thunder of having a special cool move that does that).    So we get done with that fight and about to fight the big big Final Boss.   I ask if every one will let me switch Initiative and go first.   I up cast at level 7 intellect fortress so they wouldn't be constantly stun locked.....they jumped on that so fast.  Yah Casters can be powerfull but they have their purpose.  Just like I need the melees to keep me safe from minions and physical attack they need our support too.

There was a youtuber that did a battle royal of 6 level 17 fighters and level 18 Casters.    The fighters won 28 out of 30 fights.   He said the main thing was who won the initiative and who could get the damage off fastest before the others could heal back up.   Most the time the fighters had the fight won in two turns.

Got the link for that? While 100% initiative matters and burst capability of a double action surge 20 str or dex fighter is huge. Just surprised they put up such a terrible showing. 

fighters have a couple I made my save powers per day, so in PVP they will do well as they will just make their save vs the things that make casters shine.  And they do more damage and are tougher. Give them one teleport effect via fey touched or something and lockdowns without saves are bypassed as well. 

Now I  firmly believe the divide is overstated as much of it comes into play only in optimizer fields. But I don't think PVP really shows it very well one way or the other. 

Damage is not really a concern.  Martials will do heavy damage all day long.  What martials do not do is end fights.  it's the control options that caster have that really makes a difference.  I avoid big damage hits to draw attention from my party and do my thing low key.  I've been abusing the crap out of vortex warp on my diviner moving people and beasties around.  The DM feels my impact, but my fellow players do not.

i don't find casters ending fights all that often, it can happen but usually in my experience they take a few people out of he fight for a couple rounds. Very useful, but i am not sure that is more useful than the fighter doing 50 damage at mid levels every round. though the hit point surge in 5.5 means i don't think ill see a martial end a fight against a boss enemy like a demilich in a single round again. in my experience the issue is a couple spells like simulacrum and some martials don't have enough to contribute out of a fight. 

Quote from Sir_Texas_Sir >>

There was a youtuber that did a battle royal of 6 level 17 fighters and level 18 Casters.    The fighters won 28 out of 30 fights.   He said the main thing was who won the initiative and who could get the damage off fastest before the others could heal back up.   Most the time the fighters had the fight won in two turns.

 

Ok, i dont think thats legit. Like if a wizard goes first and casts wall of force? What are the fighters going to do? 

And even if some fighters go first, the first caster does scatter, and puts all the fighters in a box, the next caster casts radiation sickness, and the third cast puts a wall of force around them. When that gets boring someone puts the 7 layer cake/dome of death around them. 

Polymorph some fighters into beached whales? Mass suggest they throw all their equipment over a cliff? 

I really dont think a party of all casters, played to the best strategies, is going to lose to a party of fighters. 

Quote from SunIsGettingRealLow96589 >>

Quote from Sir_Texas_Sir >>

There was a youtuber that did a battle royal of 6 level 17 fighters and level 18 Casters.    The fighters won 28 out of 30 fights.   He said the main thing was who won the initiative and who could get the damage off fastest before the others could heal back up.   Most the time the fighters had the fight won in two turns.

 

 

Ok, i dont think thats legit. Like if a wizard goes first and casts wall of force? What are the fighters going to do? 

And even if some fighters go first, the first caster does scatter, and puts all the fighters in a box, the next caster casts radiation sickness, and the third cast puts a wall of force around them. When that gets boring someone puts the 7 layer cake/dome of death around them. 

Polymorph some fighters into beached whales? Mass suggest they throw all their equipment over a cliff? 

I really dont think a party of all casters, played to the best strategies, is going to lose to a party of fighters. 

 

For a bit fighters just wont fail their saves. And there are feats to solve wall of force problems. And not many wizards are surviving a round of action surge from a single fighter. So I can see it. The game is not designed for pvp. 

Quote from MyDudeicus >>

Quote from SunIsGettingRealLow96589 >>

Quote from Sir_Texas_Sir >>

There was a youtuber that did a battle royal of 6 level 17 fighters and level 18 Casters.    The fighters won 28 out of 30 fights.   He said the main thing was who won the initiative and who could get the damage off fastest before the others could heal back up.   Most the time the fighters had the fight won in two turns.

 

 

Ok, i dont think thats legit. Like if a wizard goes first and casts wall of force? What are the fighters going to do? 

And even if some fighters go first, the first caster does scatter, and puts all the fighters in a box, the next caster casts radiation sickness, and the third cast puts a wall of force around them. When that gets boring someone puts the 7 layer cake/dome of death around them. 

Polymorph some fighters into beached whales? Mass suggest they throw all their equipment over a cliff? 

I really dont think a party of all casters, played to the best strategies, is going to lose to a party of fighters. 

 

 

For a bit fighters just wont fail their saves. And there are feats to solve wall of force problems. And not many wizards are surviving a round of action surge from a single fighter. So I can see it. The game is not designed for pvp. 

 I have to agree. PCs are basically all glass cannons. In PvP, initiative is what matters most. That and encounter distance. Start them at 150 feet away, and the casters will probably win no matter the initiative. But at 30 feet or closer, its going to come down to initiative.