That was my assumption, as well. But then why use a lvl 2 slot to effectively heal 5 hps? Using it for Cure Wounds would've healed for significantly more.
I don't mean to be a party pooper... I mean, it was awesome, really thematic, and creative, and overall fun! Just wondering as to the conditions which led to it. =)
I have a fighter level 1, level 6 wizard who is a necromancer. I took that feat for inflict wounds. We home brew that so that feat allows me to have that in my spell book and memorized. So i haste up and run around using that and a sword attack. So with chain, shield, (combat casting) for base 18 ac.. haste takes it to 20 and shield spell 25 when needed I am a veritable tank of the party.
That makes grim harvest super useful for me as I am in the front lines.
He is also a bit home brewed as I was abjuration and was killed by one of the DM's in a stupid way. The other DM's were pissed and said I could bring him back. I only would with a good story hook, so back I came as a partial lich (basically anything that mentions undead in the effect works on me. Which includes no healing, being turned, etc). For this i was able to swap out the 6th level animate dead which I did not want to do, and instead use the grave domain ability to stop crits. It fit in nicely with the original abjuration background as well.
RAW, Magic Initiate won't let you cast Inflict Wounds using a level 2 slot, unless you have level 2 slots from a class that can already cast Inflict Wounds. So a Wizard with Magic Initiate (Cleric) can cast Inflict Wounds, but only as a level 1 spell, and only once per long rest.
Magic innitate. I picked it up with the human variant. The feat stated "In addition you choose one first level spell from that list. You learn that spell and can cast it at its lowest level. Once you cast it you must finish a long rest before you can cast again. I'm sorry I miss interprataioned the feat. Me and my dm talked about it and he alowed me to use as if I always had it prepared and could cast it at its lowest level since it said I learned the spell and it fit with my background of a priest who watched his parents (grave domain) be turned into Umbak (sorry if I butchered that monsters name its the one that takes a wish spell to ring back to life from volos guide) so he sought to bring them back to life but feeling betrayed by the divines who allowed such atrocities to acure he turned to the very dark arts that took his family away In the first place.
Magic innitate. I picked it up with the human variant. The feat stated "In addition you choose one first level spell from that list. You learn that spell and can cast it at its lowest level. Once you cast it you must finish a long rest before you can cast again. I'm sorry I miss interprataioned the feat. Me and my dm talked about it and he alowed me to use as if I always had it prepared and could cast it at its lowest level since it said I learned the spell and it fit with my background of a priest who watched his parents (grave domain) be turned into Umbak (sorry if I butchered that monsters name its the one that takes a wish spell to ring back to life from volos guide) so he sought to bring them back to life but feeling betrayed by the divines who allowed such atrocities to acure he turned to the very dark arts that took his family away In the first place.
Gotcha, so it was, in fact, Magic Initiate (Cleric), just misinterpreted/homebrewed. If you're all fine playing it that way, great! If you're going to play it as per RAW, though, bear in mind that not only are you limited to once per long rest, and to a level 1 casting of the spell, but also your spell attack bonus would be based off Wisdom and not Intelligence.
My necromancer is at level 8 and I’ve found a few things. Many DMs and players think our thrall are expendable errand boys or one shot front liners. Both are straight up wrong. I outfit mine in chain and give them short bows (since they are proficient). With my bonus they get to hit with +7 to hit. Sure maybe one d4 damage isn’t much... but roll for four, six, or eight and those numbers go up. Throw in a few zombies in chain with a shield and you can use them to touch enemies. If they touch you can cast blindless / vampiric drain / or inflict wounds with a scroll, if you kill you get the HP. But with a few zombies up front and rows of skeleton archers in the back, your thrall is an army. The issue? Fitting in tight spaces and movement speeds, and freaking out both other players and villagers with an army of the dead. It requires some good role playing to pull it off.
I play a sage gnome who thinks undead are beautiful and calls them “second chance heroes”, adorns then with flowers and cleans then daily (recasting animate dead), and while chaotic good, often admires people for their beautiful skeletons.
Changes I would make? Add *all* the schools of necromancy, especially inflict wounds. I would consider any healing spell is only a byproduct of energies absorbed from death and must be cast via touch. Imagine being healed back from death and looking up at the cold hands of a skeleton transferring a dead cultist’s energy into you?
i recomend you get xanatars guide to everything, with all the hit points you are regaining it only makes sense for you to give em back to your party or your stronger undead minions. Danse macabre is less efficient number wise than animate dead, but if you find yourself with an largely destroyed army it can be good to have a few sudden, more powerful undead. Negative neergy flood is good for if you wanna buff yer little minions further and enervation might be worth it compared to vampiric touch against bosses since it deals more damage and lets you stay out of range.
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
With my bonus they get to hit with +7 to hit. Sure maybe one d4 damage isn’t much... but roll for four, six, or eight and those numbers go up.
Just a note: Undead Thralls lets you add your proficiency bonus to your undeads' damage, not attack rolls. Which, frankly, I prefer, since given bounded accuracy and all that, they'll be hitting every once in a while anyway, and now their hits hit harder.
Are you speaking from experience, or theory? Because in my experience, Grim Harvest nets you very few hit points, and Vampiric Touch has seen very little use, mostly out of a desire to stay out of range.
yeah am not speaking from experience, if you wish to stay out of range eneveration might be good for your hit points, assuming you mostly only target big bad bosses
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
yeah am not speaking from experience, if you wish to stay out of range eneveration might be good for your hit points, assuming you mostly only target big bad bosses
Damn, I was actually hoping for some insight as to how I might make my Necromancer benefit more from Grim Harvest! =/
also consider soul cage (to cram more hit points out of your enemies) and planar binding + summon greater demon to summon an dybuuk (in order to create zombie minions that retain some amount of power and skill from their former lives), if you have xanatars guide to everything and mordekinens tombe of foes available to you. Also shadow demons fit the astetic of necromancers.
Once again i should remind you i have no practical experience in the field of necromancy, i just think that depending on what kinds of corpses you have an dybuuk could very well be worth it.
Also if you reach the level in whom you have 6th level spells accessible and you decide to get some gasts or ghouls as minions, you can also use summon greated demon as an sixth level spell slot to summon big mother maurezi herself and have the option to revive dead ghouls and ghasts wit all their hit points and also some other things. Basically what i am trying to say is that dabbling with demon summoning as an necromancer might be an great way to get a bit more versatility in your minions, while working well with the astetic and themes of necromancy. Just make sure that none of them escape
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
also consider soul cage (to cram more hit points out of your enemies) and planar binding + summon greater demon to summon an dybuuk (in order to create zombie minions that retain some amount of power and skill from their former lives), if you have xanatars guide to everything and mordekinens tombe of foes available to you. Also shadow demons fit the astetic of necromancers.
Once again i should remind you i have no practical experience in the field of necromancy, i just think that depending on what kinds of corpses you have an dybuuk could very well be worth it.
Also if you reach the level in whom you have 6th level spells accessible and you decide to get some gasts or ghouls as minions, you can also use summon greated demon as an sixth level spell slot to summon big mother maurezi herself and have the option to revive dead ghouls and ghasts wit all their hit points and also some other things. Basically what i am trying to say is that dabbling with demon summoning as an necromancer might be an great way to get a bit more versatility in your minions, while working well with the astetic and themes of necromancy. Just make sure that none of them escape
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
yeah am not speaking from experience, if you wish to stay out of range eneveration might be good for your hit points, assuming you mostly only target big bad bosses
Damn, I was actually hoping for some insight as to how I might make my Necromancer benefit more from Grim Harvest! =/
yeah am not speaking from experience, if you wish to stay out of range eneveration might be good for your hit points, assuming you mostly only target big bad bosses
Damn, I was actually hoping for some insight as to how I might make my Necromancer benefit more from Grim Harvest! =/
From what I've researched? The best way to utlilize grim harvest is to either take a rank in cleric and get Inflict Wounds, or wait until you level up a bit and get strong attacks like Blight and Finger of Death
i've wondered recently about the spell circle of death, becuase it is in almost every way just an worse version of otilukes freezing sphere, circle of death dealing 8d6 necrotic damage over an 60 ft radius centered on an point within 150 ft while otilukes freezing sphere deals 10d6 cold damage over an 60 ft radius centered on an point up to 300 feet away and having an bunch of enviormental effects and an cool gimmic where you can store it as an snowball.
the only way i can justify this injustice is if the designers reasoned that far fewer creatures are immune or resistant to necrotic damage and that more features interact with necromancy spells and necrotic damage than features interacting with cold damage and evocation spells, but even that just feels wrong to say. The only reason to have it is if you are an death cleric or necromancy wizard
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
The only thing that I see is that Circle of Death adds 2d6 per spell slot level above 6th, while Freezing Sphere adds only 1d6. But, that doesn't seem important.
When looking at these two spells and how they interact with Grim Harvest / Sculpt Spell, I think I'd rather be an Evoker casting Sculpt Spell + Freezing Sphere than a Necromancer casting Circle of Death + Grim Harvest in almost every case.
If you're an NPC bad guy, though, things change. Undead are immune to death magic. So, a BBEG Necromancer can cast Circle of Death in an area where his minions are and not have to worry about damaging them and that's much better than Sculpt Spell.
and that is of course not even mentioning the fact that that freezing sphere is far more interesting than circle of death. Circle of death is an flat damage spell, it deals damage and that's it, whereas freezing sphere will freeze water and trap whoever is in it, and the fact that you can turn it into sling ammo for one minute, and the fact that freezing sphere has an component that is not consumed and has no specific cost (meaning that it can be replaced with a focus), whereas circle of death not only has an specific component, but the component is ******* expensive at 500gp and hard to store, (when holding it in your hand, some of the powder might slowly sip out of your hand).
Add onto that the fact that the two most common undead minions, skeletons and zombies, are neither resistant nor immune to necrotic damage and using this spell just plain makes no sense unless you simply think that circle of death is cooler.
And i did consider the extra damage at higher levels, but it really only matters if you use an 9th level spell slot, and then it is only a difference in 1d6 damage more with circle of death compared to freezing sphere, an concept made obsolete by the fact that by the time you reach 9th level you can cast meteor swarm, the single most ridiculous damage dealing spell in the game, having an range of one mile, dealing 40d6 damage to each creature within six 40 ft radiuses. By the time you use 9th level spell slots, you use them for earth shattering effects, by that time you start to summon CR 9 or 10 monsters, using an 9th level slot is hardly something to waste on an 6th level spell is it ?
i will say it again, from a certain point of view circle of death can be a little cooler than freezing sphere, and i am pretty shure that in an campaign using the aqusitions inqorperated rules you probably have to pay royalties to ottiluke himself, so that might be an deterrent, but even still there is really no excuse for this spell unless you really think that sapping peoples life force is cooler that freezing them dry, and i am not going to argue against that.
I believe the fix I would make is to make skeletons and zombies immune to necrotic damage.
That would enable a PC Necromancer to have his zombies grapple a target while the Necromancer casts Circle of Death into the area and his minions would be immune.
I *might* even make undead heal from necrotic. I just don't know if that would be balanced.
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That was my assumption, as well. But then why use a lvl 2 slot to effectively heal 5 hps? Using it for Cure Wounds would've healed for significantly more.
I don't mean to be a party pooper... I mean, it was awesome, really thematic, and creative, and overall fun! Just wondering as to the conditions which led to it. =)
I assume he has the feat arcane initiate.
I have a fighter level 1, level 6 wizard who is a necromancer. I took that feat for inflict wounds. We home brew that so that feat allows me to have that in my spell book and memorized. So i haste up and run around using that and a sword attack. So with chain, shield, (combat casting) for base 18 ac.. haste takes it to 20 and shield spell 25 when needed I am a veritable tank of the party.
That makes grim harvest super useful for me as I am in the front lines.
He is also a bit home brewed as I was abjuration and was killed by one of the DM's in a stupid way. The other DM's were pissed and said I could bring him back. I only would with a good story hook, so back I came as a partial lich (basically anything that mentions undead in the effect works on me. Which includes no healing, being turned, etc). For this i was able to swap out the 6th level animate dead which I did not want to do, and instead use the grave domain ability to stop crits. It fit in nicely with the original abjuration background as well.
RAW, Magic Initiate won't let you cast Inflict Wounds using a level 2 slot, unless you have level 2 slots from a class that can already cast Inflict Wounds. So a Wizard with Magic Initiate (Cleric) can cast Inflict Wounds, but only as a level 1 spell, and only once per long rest.
Yes, we home brewed it as I said in my post so that it works that way.
Magic innitate. I picked it up with the human variant. The feat stated "In addition you choose one first level spell from that list. You learn that spell and can cast it at its lowest level. Once you cast it you must finish a long rest before you can cast again. I'm sorry I miss interprataioned the feat. Me and my dm talked about it and he alowed me to use as if I always had it prepared and could cast it at its lowest level since it said I learned the spell and it fit with my background of a priest who watched his parents (grave domain) be turned into Umbak (sorry if I butchered that monsters name its the one that takes a wish spell to ring back to life from volos guide) so he sought to bring them back to life but feeling betrayed by the divines who allowed such atrocities to acure he turned to the very dark arts that took his family away In the first place.
Yah, I got that. =)
I was pointing out that RAW it doesn't work that way, so unless Eraz's game was using the same homebrew, it wouldn't explain it.
Gotcha, so it was, in fact, Magic Initiate (Cleric), just misinterpreted/homebrewed. If you're all fine playing it that way, great! If you're going to play it as per RAW, though, bear in mind that not only are you limited to once per long rest, and to a level 1 casting of the spell, but also your spell attack bonus would be based off Wisdom and not Intelligence.
My necromancer is at level 8 and I’ve found a few things. Many DMs and players think our thrall are expendable errand boys or one shot front liners. Both are straight up wrong. I outfit mine in chain and give them short bows (since they are proficient). With my bonus they get to hit with +7 to hit. Sure maybe one d4 damage isn’t much... but roll for four, six, or eight and those numbers go up. Throw in a few zombies in chain with a shield and you can use them to touch enemies. If they touch you can cast blindless / vampiric drain / or inflict wounds with a scroll, if you kill you get the HP. But with a few zombies up front and rows of skeleton archers in the back, your thrall is an army. The issue? Fitting in tight spaces and movement speeds, and freaking out both other players and villagers with an army of the dead. It requires some good role playing to pull it off.
I play a sage gnome who thinks undead are beautiful and calls them “second chance heroes”, adorns then with flowers and cleans then daily (recasting animate dead), and while chaotic good, often admires people for their beautiful skeletons.
Changes I would make? Add *all* the schools of necromancy, especially inflict wounds. I would consider any healing spell is only a byproduct of energies absorbed from death and must be cast via touch. Imagine being healed back from death and looking up at the cold hands of a skeleton transferring a dead cultist’s energy into you?
i recomend you get xanatars guide to everything, with all the hit points you are regaining it only makes sense for you to give em back to your party or your stronger undead minions. Danse macabre is less efficient number wise than animate dead, but if you find yourself with an largely destroyed army it can be good to have a few sudden, more powerful undead. Negative neergy flood is good for if you wanna buff yer little minions further and enervation might be worth it compared to vampiric touch against bosses since it deals more damage and lets you stay out of range.
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Just a note: Undead Thralls lets you add your proficiency bonus to your undeads' damage, not attack rolls. Which, frankly, I prefer, since given bounded accuracy and all that, they'll be hitting every once in a while anyway, and now their hits hit harder.
have you heard of the spell life transference?
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Are you speaking from experience, or theory? Because in my experience, Grim Harvest nets you very few hit points, and Vampiric Touch has seen very little use, mostly out of a desire to stay out of range.
yeah am not speaking from experience, if you wish to stay out of range eneveration might be good for your hit points, assuming you mostly only target big bad bosses
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Damn, I was actually hoping for some insight as to how I might make my Necromancer benefit more from Grim Harvest! =/
also consider soul cage (to cram more hit points out of your enemies) and planar binding + summon greater demon to summon an dybuuk (in order to create zombie minions that retain some amount of power and skill from their former lives), if you have xanatars guide to everything and mordekinens tombe of foes available to you. Also shadow demons fit the astetic of necromancers.
Once again i should remind you i have no practical experience in the field of necromancy, i just think that depending on what kinds of corpses you have an dybuuk could very well be worth it.
Also if you reach the level in whom you have 6th level spells accessible and you decide to get some gasts or ghouls as minions, you can also use summon greated demon as an sixth level spell slot to summon big mother maurezi herself and have the option to revive dead ghouls and ghasts wit all their hit points and also some other things. Basically what i am trying to say is that dabbling with demon summoning as an necromancer might be an great way to get a bit more versatility in your minions, while working well with the astetic and themes of necromancy. Just make sure that none of them escape
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
also consider soul cage (to cram more hit points out of your enemies) and planar binding + summon greater demon to summon an dybuuk (in order to create zombie minions that retain some amount of power and skill from their former lives), if you have xanatars guide to everything and mordekinens tombe of foes available to you. Also shadow demons fit the astetic of necromancers.
Once again i should remind you i have no practical experience in the field of necromancy, i just think that depending on what kinds of corpses you have an dybuuk could very well be worth it.
Also if you reach the level in whom you have 6th level spells accessible and you decide to get some gasts or ghouls as minions, you can also use summon greated demon as an sixth level spell slot to summon big mother maurezi herself and have the option to revive dead ghouls and ghasts wit all their hit points and also some other things. Basically what i am trying to say is that dabbling with demon summoning as an necromancer might be an great way to get a bit more versatility in your minions, while working well with the astetic and themes of necromancy. Just make sure that none of them escape
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
From what I've researched? The best way to utlilize grim harvest is to either take a rank in cleric and get Inflict Wounds, or wait until you level up a bit and get strong attacks like Blight and Finger of Death
i've wondered recently about the spell circle of death, becuase it is in almost every way just an worse version of otilukes freezing sphere, circle of death dealing 8d6 necrotic damage over an 60 ft radius centered on an point within 150 ft while otilukes freezing sphere deals 10d6 cold damage over an 60 ft radius centered on an point up to 300 feet away and having an bunch of enviormental effects and an cool gimmic where you can store it as an snowball.
the only way i can justify this injustice is if the designers reasoned that far fewer creatures are immune or resistant to necrotic damage and that more features interact with necromancy spells and necrotic damage than features interacting with cold damage and evocation spells, but even that just feels wrong to say. The only reason to have it is if you are an death cleric or necromancy wizard
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
The only thing that I see is that Circle of Death adds 2d6 per spell slot level above 6th, while Freezing Sphere adds only 1d6. But, that doesn't seem important.
When looking at these two spells and how they interact with Grim Harvest / Sculpt Spell, I think I'd rather be an Evoker casting Sculpt Spell + Freezing Sphere than a Necromancer casting Circle of Death + Grim Harvest in almost every case.
If you're an NPC bad guy, though, things change. Undead are immune to death magic. So, a BBEG Necromancer can cast Circle of Death in an area where his minions are and not have to worry about damaging them and that's much better than Sculpt Spell.
and that is of course not even mentioning the fact that that freezing sphere is far more interesting than circle of death. Circle of death is an flat damage spell, it deals damage and that's it, whereas freezing sphere will freeze water and trap whoever is in it, and the fact that you can turn it into sling ammo for one minute, and the fact that freezing sphere has an component that is not consumed and has no specific cost (meaning that it can be replaced with a focus), whereas circle of death not only has an specific component, but the component is ******* expensive at 500gp and hard to store, (when holding it in your hand, some of the powder might slowly sip out of your hand).
Add onto that the fact that the two most common undead minions, skeletons and zombies, are neither resistant nor immune to necrotic damage and using this spell just plain makes no sense unless you simply think that circle of death is cooler.
And i did consider the extra damage at higher levels, but it really only matters if you use an 9th level spell slot, and then it is only a difference in 1d6 damage more with circle of death compared to freezing sphere, an concept made obsolete by the fact that by the time you reach 9th level you can cast meteor swarm, the single most ridiculous damage dealing spell in the game, having an range of one mile, dealing 40d6 damage to each creature within six 40 ft radiuses. By the time you use 9th level spell slots, you use them for earth shattering effects, by that time you start to summon CR 9 or 10 monsters, using an 9th level slot is hardly something to waste on an 6th level spell is it ?
i will say it again, from a certain point of view circle of death can be a little cooler than freezing sphere, and i am pretty shure that in an campaign using the aqusitions inqorperated rules you probably have to pay royalties to ottiluke himself, so that might be an deterrent, but even still there is really no excuse for this spell unless you really think that sapping peoples life force is cooler that freezing them dry, and i am not going to argue against that.
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I believe the fix I would make is to make skeletons and zombies immune to necrotic damage.
That would enable a PC Necromancer to have his zombies grapple a target while the Necromancer casts Circle of Death into the area and his minions would be immune.
I *might* even make undead heal from necrotic. I just don't know if that would be balanced.