As Mephista says above, here's the relevant [phrase from the "zombie" entry. RAW, I don't see how that's anything other than inherently evil.
The magic animating a zombie imbues it with evil, so left without purpose, it attacks any living creature it encounters.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Look into the history of Ras Nsi. I found him in ToA and went digging and there is a lot more to the history of Chult.
I took these base facts and envisioned (not canon or raw) where the undead were not only revered but were also a display of "wealth". Ras Nsi was able to raise the dead and used them as tax collectors, to carry his palace and to do public works (dig wells,make roads etc). In a society like this, where undead aren't viewed as "kill on sight" but are instead viewed favorably "yay, we finally get that well we have been asking for OR about time they upgraded the road" it got me thinking about what else might be going on.
I started to think about how a family might have relatives that "stayed around to help out" - where grandma loves the family so much she sticks around as a zombie for a while. The length of time could be linked to the quality of the magic, to the amount of willpower and desire of the person etc. In this way a family's wealth is measured not only in they amount of coin they have, but also in the amount of love they have. Look, three generations want to give up their afterlife (for a while) to help their family, what love!?
This of course added a nice poignant touch to the undead issue in Chult, wherein the natives are forced to kill their loved ones, or the loved ones of others, and the Order of the Gauntlet would be viewed as both helpers (getting rid of feral undead) but also with disdain because they are killing the natives relatives.
I never got a chance to flesh it out fully - it really only mattered towards the end of my campaign, but I thought it was fascinating and gave a real different feel to Chult. Hopefully the above gives you a few ideas.
I've generally ruled using Undead as a neutral act so long as you maintain control of them and don't let them hurt folks too badly.
I, and the rare few players who use Animate Undead, made use of an optional version of the spell where you cast it and you must ask the Soul/Spirit of the being if you have permission to use their remains. This version takes an hour to cast and requires a Persuasion, Intimidation or Deception check (DC 8+the combined CR rating of the targets) to successfully raise the Undead.
Done in this way, the Undead are Neutral rather than Evil and will not actively harm the living, but they are also bound to the 'contract' they made with the one who raised them. Generally, this would involve service of some kind, at which point the Undead de-animates and becomes a corpse again.
Generally, the things the targets of the Good-Aligned Necromancer would ask for the following things:
Finding their murderer and bringing them to justice or protecting their loved ones from further harm and suffering.
Financial aid to their families since the slain individual was the primary financial support for that family.
Solving a local problem that was, directly or indirectly, responsible for the slain individual's death.
Giving the slain individuals a final chance to set things right.
In return for whatever the soul asked for, they would give permission for the Necromancer to re-animate their remains, complete the desired task and generally that would be the end for those Undead. Rarely, they might linger on if the need was dire enough and their own goals had been completed, such as an enemy army rampaging across the lands or a great amount of labour was required to achieve a larger, more important task, but as a rule, the Undead did not want to stick around longer than what was required before returning to their respective afterlives.
I'd also ruled that players had to treat their Undead with respect to maintain control of their 'minions'. No desecrating the bodies, clothing them in robes and other large garments to obscure their forms and prevent the friends and loved ones from seeing their dead companions in such a state, and no parading this power before the common folk as a threat or display of power. The corpses also had to be properly dealt with in the aftermath, be it buried, cremated or whatever the faith of the Undead followed in life, and it was generally a good idea to sanctify the corpse with Holy Water, the Gentle Repose spell or similar methods just to make absolutely sure we weren't going to have a Shaun of the Dead moment.
Failure to uphold the contract would turn the Undead back on their animator, turning them Evil again as the soul tied to the remains became enraged at the animator's refusal to uphold the deal, although the Necromancer/Animator could persuade/intimidate/deceive the Undead, and given their low scores and saves, could pull this off several times before the Undead wised up, but refusing to honor the contract and misleading the Undead raised in such fashion was an Evil Act, especially if mis-used for personal gain.
These 'Pale' Necromancers served as keepers of graves and necropolises, attendants to Clerics and Paladins fighting 'True' Necromancers, Fiends and those who would abuse the Dead and the Undead for their own agendas and assistants to those seeking restitution or answers for the murdered and the lost. They weren't exactly welcome in most of society, but their refusal to abuse the Undead and their relentless pursuit of those who did, and dragging them before the Clergies of the anti-Undead Gods earned them a begrudging place of honor in the setting.
i have a necromancer that i'm about to use that is a doctor who tries to help the less fortunate no matter he is the skeleton that was infused with the magic of a failed lich who's magic was ripped from them and put it into a pile of bones creating a humanoid skeleton that has horns and sharp teeth, they have been around for a few hundred years studying medicine
So here's my question, guys. Someone somewhere once mentioned the idea of a good necromancer to me, aka a necromancer who would use their powers for good instead of evil. For example, they would raise the dead, but leave them their free will, thereby allowing families a final goodbye with their loved one who were taken from them before their time. This could also help police and military by allowing them to gather information from murder vctims or informants that were killed for having found out some useful information. Or maybe they would use the zombies they create as free labor to help cities grow or have them work where it would be to dangerous for mortals to work. Or.... You see, there's the problem. apart from those two examples i just used, i'm not really sure how necromancy could be used in a positive way.
Anyone of you has an idea how necromany could benefit society instead of harm it? Thanks for your time.
Whether Animate Dead is an inherently evil spell is a cultural thing and the GM can certainly create cultures where it is acceptable.
Some of the other undead that can be created with Wizard spellls are inherently evil and creating them would be problematic for a good Necromancer.
Several years ago I wanted to see what I could do with a necromancer character.
I didn’t want to create a “good” necromancer.The twist that I had was a “healing” necromancer.As mentioned earlier, many healing, life giving spells are classified as necromantic.
And so, Primrose Perianth (of the New Burgundy Perianth’s) was born.
To keep with her “healing” concept, she made homebrew spells like:
Primrose's Reanimating Revivify*. (If the corpse is older than 1 min since death, tney have the option to return as a Reborn or Dhampir Lineage)
Primrose Shards of Bone* (a 1st level necromantic ranged attack spell - to heal herself because Necromancers heal when they kill things)
Then she got high enough level and found out Necromancers can’t cast “Speak with Dead”.So she was working on “Necromantic Speak with Dead*”.
When “Strixhaven” came out and “Wither and Bloom” was added to her arsenal.Then she found out the “Witherbloom student” feat allowed her to cast “Cure Wounds” - no necromantic draining like with “Life Transference” (that thing can kill the caster!). Because Witherbloom Combined the Necromantic, and Druidic, manipulation of life force.
Now the concept of Necromancers casting healing magic naturally had been breached.Logically, Necromantic curative and life restoring spells no longer needed to drain the caster of life.Primrose began researching spells using the “Arcane” definition, instead of “Necromantic” to reflect the manipulation of natural energy instead of using manipulated life force for her healing (divination, etc.) spells.
Unfortunately, as soon as she started delving into “Arcane Speak With Dead*”, the campaign folded.
But that’s my experience with non-classical necromancy.As for undead, Primrose can only say:
“Euuw!They stink, if they don’t stink, they’re morbid.And you have to keep casting “Animate Dead” to keep them from running amok.Face it, until you can cast “Finger of Death” and get undead permanently under your control, undead servants are more trouble than they’re worth.But you still have to embalm them to keep them from stinking.”
* Unpublished.Also running with the idea that “Arcane” variants of (normally clerical) healing spells are cast at 1 level higher than the clerical version to avoid angering the gods.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
As Mephista says above, here's the relevant [phrase from the "zombie" entry. RAW, I don't see how that's anything other than inherently evil.
The magic animating a zombie imbues it with evil, so left without purpose, it attacks any living creature it encounters.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Look into the history of Ras Nsi. I found him in ToA and went digging and there is a lot more to the history of Chult.
I took these base facts and envisioned (not canon or raw) where the undead were not only revered but were also a display of "wealth". Ras Nsi was able to raise the dead and used them as tax collectors, to carry his palace and to do public works (dig wells,make roads etc). In a society like this, where undead aren't viewed as "kill on sight" but are instead viewed favorably "yay, we finally get that well we have been asking for OR about time they upgraded the road" it got me thinking about what else might be going on.
I started to think about how a family might have relatives that "stayed around to help out" - where grandma loves the family so much she sticks around as a zombie for a while. The length of time could be linked to the quality of the magic, to the amount of willpower and desire of the person etc. In this way a family's wealth is measured not only in they amount of coin they have, but also in the amount of love they have. Look, three generations want to give up their afterlife (for a while) to help their family, what love!?
This of course added a nice poignant touch to the undead issue in Chult, wherein the natives are forced to kill their loved ones, or the loved ones of others, and the Order of the Gauntlet would be viewed as both helpers (getting rid of feral undead) but also with disdain because they are killing the natives relatives.
I never got a chance to flesh it out fully - it really only mattered towards the end of my campaign, but I thought it was fascinating and gave a real different feel to Chult. Hopefully the above gives you a few ideas.
I've generally ruled using Undead as a neutral act so long as you maintain control of them and don't let them hurt folks too badly.
I, and the rare few players who use Animate Undead, made use of an optional version of the spell where you cast it and you must ask the Soul/Spirit of the being if you have permission to use their remains. This version takes an hour to cast and requires a Persuasion, Intimidation or Deception check (DC 8+the combined CR rating of the targets) to successfully raise the Undead.
Done in this way, the Undead are Neutral rather than Evil and will not actively harm the living, but they are also bound to the 'contract' they made with the one who raised them. Generally, this would involve service of some kind, at which point the Undead de-animates and becomes a corpse again.
Generally, the things the targets of the Good-Aligned Necromancer would ask for the following things:
In return for whatever the soul asked for, they would give permission for the Necromancer to re-animate their remains, complete the desired task and generally that would be the end for those Undead. Rarely, they might linger on if the need was dire enough and their own goals had been completed, such as an enemy army rampaging across the lands or a great amount of labour was required to achieve a larger, more important task, but as a rule, the Undead did not want to stick around longer than what was required before returning to their respective afterlives.
I'd also ruled that players had to treat their Undead with respect to maintain control of their 'minions'. No desecrating the bodies, clothing them in robes and other large garments to obscure their forms and prevent the friends and loved ones from seeing their dead companions in such a state, and no parading this power before the common folk as a threat or display of power. The corpses also had to be properly dealt with in the aftermath, be it buried, cremated or whatever the faith of the Undead followed in life, and it was generally a good idea to sanctify the corpse with Holy Water, the Gentle Repose spell or similar methods just to make absolutely sure we weren't going to have a Shaun of the Dead moment.
Failure to uphold the contract would turn the Undead back on their animator, turning them Evil again as the soul tied to the remains became enraged at the animator's refusal to uphold the deal, although the Necromancer/Animator could persuade/intimidate/deceive the Undead, and given their low scores and saves, could pull this off several times before the Undead wised up, but refusing to honor the contract and misleading the Undead raised in such fashion was an Evil Act, especially if mis-used for personal gain.
These 'Pale' Necromancers served as keepers of graves and necropolises, attendants to Clerics and Paladins fighting 'True' Necromancers, Fiends and those who would abuse the Dead and the Undead for their own agendas and assistants to those seeking restitution or answers for the murdered and the lost. They weren't exactly welcome in most of society, but their refusal to abuse the Undead and their relentless pursuit of those who did, and dragging them before the Clergies of the anti-Undead Gods earned them a begrudging place of honor in the setting.
Again, as always, YMMV when using the above.
i have a necromancer that i'm about to use that is a doctor who tries to help the less fortunate no matter he is the skeleton that was infused with the magic of a failed lich who's magic was ripped from them and put it into a pile of bones creating a humanoid skeleton that has horns and sharp teeth, they have been around for a few hundred years studying medicine
Whether Animate Dead is an inherently evil spell is a cultural thing and the GM can certainly create cultures where it is acceptable.
Some of the other undead that can be created with Wizard spellls are inherently evil and creating them would be problematic for a good Necromancer.
Several years ago I wanted to see what I could do with a necromancer character.
I didn’t want to create a “good” necromancer. The twist that I had was a “healing” necromancer. As mentioned earlier, many healing, life giving spells are classified as necromantic.
And so, Primrose Perianth (of the New Burgundy Perianth’s) was born.
To keep with her “healing” concept, she made homebrew spells like:
Prim’s Necromantic Revivify: https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/1452959-prims-necromantic-revivify
False Healing Word: https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/1568810-false-healing-word
Primrose's Reanimating Revivify*. (If the corpse is older than 1 min since death, tney have the option to return as a Reborn or Dhampir Lineage)
Primrose Shards of Bone* (a 1st level necromantic ranged attack spell - to heal herself because Necromancers heal when they kill things)
Then she got high enough level and found out Necromancers can’t cast “Speak with Dead”. So she was working on “Necromantic Speak with Dead*”.
When “Strixhaven” came out and “Wither and Bloom” was added to her arsenal. Then she found out the “Witherbloom student” feat allowed her to cast “Cure Wounds” - no necromantic draining like with “Life Transference” (that thing can kill the caster!). Because Witherbloom Combined the Necromantic, and Druidic, manipulation of life force.
Now the concept of Necromancers casting healing magic naturally had been breached. Logically, Necromantic curative and life restoring spells no longer needed to drain the caster of life. Primrose began researching spells using the “Arcane” definition, instead of “Necromantic” to reflect the manipulation of natural energy instead of using manipulated life force for her healing (divination, etc.) spells.
Unfortunately, as soon as she started delving into “Arcane Speak With Dead*”, the campaign folded.
But that’s my experience with non-classical necromancy. As for undead, Primrose can only say:
“Euuw! They stink, if they don’t stink, they’re morbid. And you have to keep casting “Animate Dead” to keep them from running amok. Face it, until you can cast “Finger of Death” and get undead permanently under your control, undead servants are more trouble than they’re worth. But you still have to embalm them to keep them from stinking.”
* Unpublished. Also running with the idea that “Arcane” variants of (normally clerical) healing spells are cast at 1 level higher than the clerical version to avoid angering the gods.