Hello! I have two questions about necromancy that I do not quite understand.
Is it an evil act to animate zombies and skeletons, or is it how they are used that might be evil? Lets say a necromancer only animates evil creatures (orcs that attacked the village, bandits armbushing inocents etc). If it is different depending where you play, take it in the setting of AL.
Animating a dead body give a zombie, animating a pile of bones make a skeleton. Will not the zombie (corpse) continue to decay? Will it "die" at the end, or turn into a skeleton?
Yes and no are perfectly valid answers to this question. How does your group & DM view the alignment axes. Is manipulating a corpse after death in manner not congruent with "proper burial" a neutral action? I am not familiar with AL beyond understanding that its organized play and the rules for creating and advancing characters, so I cannot speak from that particular point of reference. Also, as to whether or not the zombies decay into skeletons (can change stat blocks) or are magically preservedish (cannot change stat blocks) is completely up to DM interpretation so, ask your DM. As for me personally, I would argue that in the cosmic scheme of things (purview of gods) that this is a neutral action, how they are used determines good vs evil; however, I'd also argue that mortal beings would likely take offense and that this would be a chaotic action as it would be antithesis of law.
In my campaign necromancy is completely legal and accepted and many people request their bodies be sent tot he necromancers to be animated when they die as they deem the soul or spirit to go onto the after lie and the body just a shell. Those bodies that are animated are sold onto farms, mines and other laborious or dangerous professions where they serve as cheap labor/expendable resources: need to see if a area in a mine is safe? send in a zombie with a candle to see if any natural gas is present, need to harvest a large amount of crops in a hurry? get in some skeletons to harvest them etc.
I also wrote up a lot of character concepts in something i put on Drive through RPG, for necromancers specifically of a non evil alignment you might find these useful:
Concept 1: Van Helsing/Vampire Hunter. This suits those wanting a more Lawful or Goodly Necromancer. Now you might think "Hang on, Van Helsing is not a necromancer, he is a vampire hunter, ergo he should be a paladin or a ranger with undead as a favoured enemy", but what if he studies necromancy to understand the weakness and powers of the vampires he hunts and if you take the classic literary image of Van Helsing or the Hammer Horror film version then he has more in common with a student of necromancy than a beacon of faith/combat monster as he does not wear armour and is more studious and also cowardly at times.
Background wise he has the Acolyte background having studied with or been brought up studying with, a particular undead hating religion, as he becomes more adept (level 10 wizard) he becomes resistant to Necrotic Energy as he learns various ways to guard himself from undead energies Skill wise, he'll likely have Perception to detect those people in a crowd that are not breathing, Investigation to detect traps in a vampires tomb and for those long nights in a library trying to find discrepancies in family genealogies or speed reading diaries and History to help with tracking down ancestral family estates, graveyards and monitoring families for re-occurrences of the taint of Vampirism. Spell wise, his spell list would be geared towards investigation (such as Arcane Eye, Clairvoyance, Detect Thoughts or See Invisibility) or towards defence (such as Mage Armour, Misty Step and Protection from Evil and Good) and with damaging Spells being those which inflict fire or radiant damage. Advancement wise, its worth trying to avoid multi-classing to Cleric or Paladin as Van Helsing really doesn't call upon divine powers to dispatch vampires, its all knowledge, guile and wits. Try and keep this one strictly Wizard, a slight amendment maybe take a Magic Initiate: Cleric Feat and nab either Sacred Flame or Word of Radiance to get a radiant damage cantrip. Equipment wise, he is never without a holy symbol to one or more gods (to use during any attempt to use the level 14 power to command undead) and its worth having one holy symbol have a crystal fixed in it to use as an arcane spell focus, this concept would also have several vials of holy water (to use either as weapons or to fuel spells such as Dispel Evil and Good, Protection from Evil and Good or Magic Circle), they'll also be sporting several wooden stakes and likely some sort of slashing weapon to behead any vampires he finds. There would also be the usual suspects of a mirror and cloves of garlic to help try and detect/ward off a vampire, although in 5e, Vampires do not have any special vulnerability to garlic nor is there a reference to a lack of reflection but it is a bit of character fluff/flavour.
Concept 6: Libris Mortis. The Libris Mortis, a rough translation means Books of Death, seeks to catalogue death in all its forms. The carry a book, that ends up being almost as big as their spell book, that contains every type of death they have observed or experienced. They are often found wandering around sites of recent battles or places where disease is rife, studiously noting all types of injuries and noting down progression rates for decomposition and poison or disease progression. They are best thought of as clinically distant, referring to everything in terms of degrees of fatality or lethality, this some what stoic or distant demeanour leads many to see them as untrustworthy and creepy but very rarely evil unless they are found conducting "experiments" on healthy living victims. Background wise, they usually have either Acolyte or Sage backgrounds but may have other backgrounds where they have suffered some major trauma, such as an Urchin that fell unconscious and woke up in a plague pit or a soldier that was the sole survivor of a massacre. Skill wise, they focus on Arcana, Medicine and Nature, using their skill to understand how the injuries resulted in death, whether a disease or poison was the result of a natural toxin or something made by magic. Spell wise, they tend towards spells that aid with investigation such as Speak with Dead (in order to understand what the a spirit felt at the moments leading upto their death), Comprehend Languages or tongues to talk with those that may not be native to the area but they also have spells that reflect their various areas of "research" such as Blight, Contagion and Ray of Sickness. Advancement wise, The Libris Mortis tend to stay strictly Wizard in their pursuit of understanding and cataloguing the many forms of death. Equipment wise, aside from their book of death, these would be your medieval plague doctor image with the long bird style masks stuffed with healing/purifying herbs and glass goggles to protect them from unclean air. They are also likely to use or at least be seen holding, a scythe. They usually have a dagger or sickle that they use to enact a Coup de Grace or mercy strike to end a persons suffering.
Concept 11: The Dirge Singer: Dirge Singers were either people that were brought up in a choir or that made a living as a singer and found themselves continually hired to perform at funerals to sing songs to honour the deceased. over time they became slightly warped and delved into necromancy and use their singing and performing skills to lure the souls and spirits of the dead back tot he world of the living or help lost souls pass on to the afterlife. Background wise, Dirge singers were usually Acolytes or Entertainers before taking up the role of the necromancer. They are not usually evil they just have a slightly warped view of the world. Skill wise, Dirge singers are proficient with musical instruments and singing as well as the performance skill with a sound knowledge of Arcana and Religion which they use to enact burial rites and persuade lost soul to move on. Spell wise, Dirge Singers prefer to utilise more subtle spells (such as Calm Emotions and Slow) and create undead to fight for them and are likely to have the Requiem feat noted above to increase the variety of undead they can summon. When they sing or perform they are known for their haunting melody and excel at using peoples emotions against them and most spell casting they do incorporates singing in some fashion. Advancement wise, it is common for dirge singers to delve into studies with the bard college of lore to hone their performance abilities and learn about funerary rites from other parts of the world and sometimes they may seek out Gods that tolerate their abilities. Equipment wise, Dirge Singers have a musical instrument of choice, enough components to summon whatever undead they desire and a book of songs and funeral rites so they are ready to perform whenever needed. Dress wise they wear solemn and respectful attire.
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* Need a character idea? Search for "Rob76's Unused" in the Story and Lore section.
My understanding of AL is also rather limited. I believe AL adheres to all rules in all published materials to the best of its ability. As such, I will be speaking with this understanding, but there are others that can speak with far more authority than I.
For this particular issue, I've seen such conversations bring up the fact that zombies and skeletons are always evil creatures, and their innate behavior and personality (if they can be said to have either) dictate that they attack and kill living beings, which is typically considered an evil act.
This brings up the fact that once the control is lost or lifted, the undead creature will go on to kill living creatures, adhering to its evil alignment. Given that a necromancer is knowingly and willingly creating an evil creature, that can heavily skew the concept of the act towards evil rather than something else.
Of course, Homebrew can be very different from this understanding.
Honestly, I would suggest you ask this question on the AL board, if you're definitely looking for that perspective.
Use of necromancy is always going to be a question of how it is used rather than an absolute black and white issue. What could be considered evil or at least irresponsible would be to let created undead loose from control. Nothing stops a necromancer from destroying undead before their control ends. Even more powerful undead such as ghouls and the like can be disposed of once their usefulness has passed. Using dead guards to continue to protect a city or faithful to fight demons/devils might be considered a good act if it avoids risking the lives of others.
The big AL issue is that PvP is prohibited. So if a player objects to undead of any kind there is little that they can do without breaking that rule aside from convenes the dead raiser to change ways or attempt to deny future bodies.
Also (and I cannot reiterate it enough), Necromancy is a school of magic not just animate/create undead and danse macbre, if people you play with are getting hung up on the undead side of things, school them in necromancy magic, maybe play a necromancer that only uses damage dealing spells that do necrotic damage or play a necromancer that thinks he/she s undead or is a total fanboy of one particular type of undead and uses spells that mimic undead powers, call your hold person spell ghoul touch, refer to gaseous form as mist form or fly as Ghost flight, as long as you say out of character what the spell actually is so the DM knows.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
* Need a character idea? Search for "Rob76's Unused" in the Story and Lore section.
Hello!
I have two questions about necromancy that I do not quite understand.
Is it an evil act to animate zombies and skeletons, or is it how they are used that might be evil? Lets say a necromancer only animates evil creatures (orcs that attacked the village, bandits armbushing inocents etc). If it is different depending where you play, take it in the setting of AL.
Animating a dead body give a zombie, animating a pile of bones make a skeleton. Will not the zombie (corpse) continue to decay? Will it "die" at the end, or turn into a skeleton?
Yes and no are perfectly valid answers to this question. How does your group & DM view the alignment axes. Is manipulating a corpse after death in manner not congruent with "proper burial" a neutral action? I am not familiar with AL beyond understanding that its organized play and the rules for creating and advancing characters, so I cannot speak from that particular point of reference. Also, as to whether or not the zombies decay into skeletons (can change stat blocks) or are magically preservedish (cannot change stat blocks) is completely up to DM interpretation so, ask your DM. As for me personally, I would argue that in the cosmic scheme of things (purview of gods) that this is a neutral action, how they are used determines good vs evil; however, I'd also argue that mortal beings would likely take offense and that this would be a chaotic action as it would be antithesis of law.
I may be a bit late to comment but:
In my campaign necromancy is completely legal and accepted and many people request their bodies be sent tot he necromancers to be animated when they die as they deem the soul or spirit to go onto the after lie and the body just a shell. Those bodies that are animated are sold onto farms, mines and other laborious or dangerous professions where they serve as cheap labor/expendable resources: need to see if a area in a mine is safe? send in a zombie with a candle to see if any natural gas is present, need to harvest a large amount of crops in a hurry? get in some skeletons to harvest them etc.
I also wrote up a lot of character concepts in something i put on Drive through RPG, for necromancers specifically of a non evil alignment you might find these useful:
Concept 1: Van Helsing/Vampire Hunter.
This suits those wanting a more Lawful or Goodly Necromancer.
Now you might think "Hang on, Van Helsing is not a necromancer, he is a vampire hunter, ergo he should be a paladin or a ranger with undead as a favoured enemy", but what if he studies necromancy to understand the weakness and powers of the vampires he hunts and if you take the classic literary image of Van Helsing or the Hammer Horror film version then he has more in common with a student of necromancy than a beacon of faith/combat monster as he does not wear armour and is more studious and also cowardly at times.
Background wise he has the Acolyte background having studied with or been brought up studying with, a particular undead hating religion, as he becomes more adept (level 10 wizard) he becomes resistant to Necrotic Energy as he learns various ways to guard himself from undead energies
Skill wise, he'll likely have Perception to detect those people in a crowd that are not breathing, Investigation to detect traps in a vampires tomb and for those long nights in a library trying to find discrepancies in family genealogies or speed reading diaries and History to help with tracking down ancestral family estates, graveyards and monitoring families for re-occurrences of the taint of Vampirism.
Spell wise, his spell list would be geared towards investigation (such as Arcane Eye, Clairvoyance, Detect Thoughts or See Invisibility) or towards defence (such as Mage Armour, Misty Step and Protection from Evil and Good) and with damaging Spells being those which inflict fire or radiant damage.
Advancement wise, its worth trying to avoid multi-classing to Cleric or Paladin as Van Helsing really doesn't call upon divine powers to dispatch vampires, its all knowledge, guile and wits. Try and keep this one strictly Wizard, a slight amendment maybe take a Magic Initiate: Cleric Feat and nab either Sacred Flame or Word of Radiance to get a radiant damage cantrip.
Equipment wise, he is never without a holy symbol to one or more gods (to use during any attempt to use the level 14 power to command undead) and its worth having one holy symbol have a crystal fixed in it to use as an arcane spell focus, this concept would also have several vials of holy water (to use either as weapons or to fuel spells such as Dispel Evil and Good, Protection from Evil and Good or Magic Circle), they'll also be sporting several wooden stakes and likely some sort of slashing weapon to behead any vampires he finds. There would also be the usual suspects of a mirror and cloves of garlic to help try and detect/ward off a vampire, although in 5e, Vampires do not have any special vulnerability to garlic nor is there a reference to a lack of reflection but it is a bit of character fluff/flavour.
Concept 6: Libris Mortis.
The Libris Mortis, a rough translation means Books of Death, seeks to catalogue death in all its forms. The carry a book, that ends up being almost as big as their spell book, that contains every type of death they have observed or experienced. They are often found wandering around sites of recent battles or places where disease is rife, studiously noting all types of injuries and noting down progression rates for decomposition and poison or disease progression. They are best thought of as clinically distant, referring to everything in terms of degrees of fatality or lethality, this some what stoic or distant demeanour leads many to see them as untrustworthy and creepy but very rarely evil unless they are found conducting "experiments" on healthy living victims.
Background wise, they usually have either Acolyte or Sage backgrounds but may have other backgrounds where they have suffered some major trauma, such as an Urchin that fell unconscious and woke up in a plague pit or a soldier that was the sole survivor of a massacre.
Skill wise, they focus on Arcana, Medicine and Nature, using their skill to understand how the injuries resulted in death, whether a disease or poison was the result of a natural toxin or something made by magic.
Spell wise, they tend towards spells that aid with investigation such as Speak with Dead (in order to understand what the a spirit felt at the moments leading upto their death), Comprehend Languages or tongues to talk with those that may not be native to the area but they also have spells that reflect their various areas of "research" such as Blight, Contagion and Ray of Sickness.
Advancement wise, The Libris Mortis tend to stay strictly Wizard in their pursuit of understanding and cataloguing the many forms of death.
Equipment wise, aside from their book of death, these would be your medieval plague doctor image with the long bird style masks stuffed with healing/purifying herbs and glass goggles to protect them from unclean air. They are also likely to use or at least be seen holding, a scythe. They usually have a dagger or sickle that they use to enact a Coup de Grace or mercy strike to end a persons suffering.
Concept 11: The Dirge Singer:
Dirge Singers were either people that were brought up in a choir or that made a living as a singer and found themselves continually hired to perform at funerals to sing songs to honour the deceased. over time they became slightly warped and delved into necromancy and use their singing and performing skills to lure the souls and spirits of the dead back tot he world of the living or help lost souls pass on to the afterlife.
Background wise, Dirge singers were usually Acolytes or Entertainers before taking up the role of the necromancer. They are not usually evil they just have a slightly warped view of the world.
Skill wise, Dirge singers are proficient with musical instruments and singing as well as the performance skill with a sound knowledge of Arcana and Religion which they use to enact burial rites and persuade lost soul to move on.
Spell wise, Dirge Singers prefer to utilise more subtle spells (such as Calm Emotions and Slow) and create undead to fight for them and are likely to have the Requiem feat noted above to increase the variety of undead they can summon. When they sing or perform they are known for their haunting melody and excel at using peoples emotions against them and most spell casting they do incorporates singing in some fashion.
Advancement wise, it is common for dirge singers to delve into studies with the bard college of lore to hone their performance abilities and learn about funerary rites from other parts of the world and sometimes they may seek out Gods that tolerate their abilities.
Equipment wise, Dirge Singers have a musical instrument of choice, enough components to summon whatever undead they desire and a book of songs and funeral rites so they are ready to perform whenever needed. Dress wise they wear solemn and respectful attire.
My understanding of AL is also rather limited. I believe AL adheres to all rules in all published materials to the best of its ability. As such, I will be speaking with this understanding, but there are others that can speak with far more authority than I.
For this particular issue, I've seen such conversations bring up the fact that zombies and skeletons are always evil creatures, and their innate behavior and personality (if they can be said to have either) dictate that they attack and kill living beings, which is typically considered an evil act.
This brings up the fact that once the control is lost or lifted, the undead creature will go on to kill living creatures, adhering to its evil alignment. Given that a necromancer is knowingly and willingly creating an evil creature, that can heavily skew the concept of the act towards evil rather than something else.
Of course, Homebrew can be very different from this understanding.
Honestly, I would suggest you ask this question on the AL board, if you're definitely looking for that perspective.
Use of necromancy is always going to be a question of how it is used rather than an absolute black and white issue. What could be considered evil or at least irresponsible would be to let created undead loose from control. Nothing stops a necromancer from destroying undead before their control ends. Even more powerful undead such as ghouls and the like can be disposed of once their usefulness has passed. Using dead guards to continue to protect a city or faithful to fight demons/devils might be considered a good act if it avoids risking the lives of others.
The big AL issue is that PvP is prohibited. So if a player objects to undead of any kind there is little that they can do without breaking that rule aside from convenes the dead raiser to change ways or attempt to deny future bodies.
Also (and I cannot reiterate it enough), Necromancy is a school of magic not just animate/create undead and danse macbre, if people you play with are getting hung up on the undead side of things, school them in necromancy magic, maybe play a necromancer that only uses damage dealing spells that do necrotic damage or play a necromancer that thinks he/she s undead or is a total fanboy of one particular type of undead and uses spells that mimic undead powers, call your hold person spell ghoul touch, refer to gaseous form as mist form or fly as Ghost flight, as long as you say out of character what the spell actually is so the DM knows.