so, when you cast an spell that has an range of touch, you can have your familliar use their reaction to deliver the spell with their reaction. However due to how the spell is worded it seems that for the purposes of the spell being delivered, the familiar is treated as the caster. This leads to an rather interesting scenario where an level 11 or higher wizard with create homunculus in their spellbook but with no current homunculus, and who just so happens to have an familliar with hands and two jewel encrusted daggers, one of witch must be worth at least 1000gp can spend an hour or so casting this spell with both him and his familliar within range of the consumed material component during the entire casting, then once the spell is finished let his familliar deliver the spell with his reaction as the familliar stabs itself with its jewel encrusted dagger (that is an diffrent one from the one that you are using as an material component and focus for the spell) and drips its blood on the consumed material component, turning it into an homunculus belonging not to you but instead to your familliar, you can then cast this spell again, letting you have two homunculi under your (indirect) controll at one time (or four if you dare cast similaricum before you have reached max level).
is this an legal move? is there anything in RAW stopping me from doing this? is there an sage advice article on the limitations of create homunculus and/or find familliar that contradicts the assumptions about these spells nessesary for this particular combination to work? please let me know
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Since the Hommunculus only obeys your commands, and dosen't carry a single skill to self-express its own inner thoughts, nore cannot improve his own skills, it's obvious they cannot gain LVLs ... or am I wrong ????
The caster is still the caster, it's just being delivered by the familiar. If the familiar was able to cast the spell without the Wizard, then it could have one but it wouldn't obey the Wizard, only the familiar.
well that is the thing that made me wonder, it says as follows:
Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll.
notice how it says "as if it had cast it", its unclear exactly what it means by that, does it mean that the the homunculus is for a time treated as the caster? Or is "as if it had cast the spell" shorthand for "casting the spell at the familiars location"? that is exactly why i made the post.
as for the whole "it would not obey the wizard" part, no it would not obey the wizards direct commands, but it would follow the commands of the familliar to the best of its abillity, yes that is indeed an dangerous game of broken telephone, especially if your familliar has an intelegence score to low to be properly sapient, but you can totally do it (possibly, maybe)
of course, during the casting your wizard is the caster, so an wizard must give his familliar a homunculus before he makes his own homunculus
and also of course the primary benefit of the homunculus, the constant scrying effect allowing you to see through its senses is of course lost but it whould still be useful for some other things
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
well, the homunculus is sapient, so it might theoretically be able to gain class levels, however that is of course not relevant to the conversation
Yes it is relevant. Because if it gains lvls.... why not applying a skill on the Hommunculus ???
okay so what the **** do you mean with why not applying "a skill" on the hummunculus ??? what? This was about your familliar having an homunculus and you also having an homunculus, what concept are you trying to communicate here?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
OK, first off: Familiars cannot cast a spell unless the statblock says so. The reference about delivering a spell "as if" it had cast it is so you know the rules on delivering the spell and choosing targets, it doesn't actually make the familiar the caster. Context is key. Taking something away from the context doesn't change things. Read the whole, not just the words that suit you. So no, you cannot have two homunculi.
The homunculus is a creature and all relevant rules apply to it as they would to creatures. This includes gaining levels if the DM permits it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
yeah you're right, but there is an incredibly flimsy explination for how an familliar could still get an homunculus without being the caster: in delivering the spell yourself, you take a crystal dagger and cut yourself with it, dripping your blood on the material components. But if the familliar delivered the spell, shurely they would need to cut themselves, and now it is not your blood on the homunculus's material components, so will the homunculus even be bonded to you, or the creature that gave its blood in the casting (this is an so flimsy explination that it falls part almost immedeatly, there is no need to debunk this)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
so, when you cast an spell that has an range of touch, you can have your familliar use their reaction to deliver the spell with their reaction. However due to how the spell is worded it seems that for the purposes of the spell being delivered, the familiar is treated as the caster. This leads to an rather interesting scenario where an level 11 or higher wizard with create homunculus in their spellbook but with no current homunculus, and who just so happens to have an familliar with hands and two jewel encrusted daggers, one of witch must be worth at least 1000gp can spend an hour or so casting this spell with both him and his familliar within range of the consumed material component during the entire casting, then once the spell is finished let his familliar deliver the spell with his reaction as the familliar stabs itself with its jewel encrusted dagger (that is an diffrent one from the one that you are using as an material component and focus for the spell) and drips its blood on the consumed material component, turning it into an homunculus belonging not to you but instead to your familliar, you can then cast this spell again, letting you have two homunculi under your (indirect) controll at one time (or four if you dare cast similaricum before you have reached max level).
is this an legal move? is there anything in RAW stopping me from doing this? is there an sage advice article on the limitations of create homunculus and/or find familliar that contradicts the assumptions about these spells nessesary for this particular combination to work? please let me know
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Since the Hommunculus only obeys your commands, and dosen't carry a single skill to self-express its own inner thoughts, nore cannot improve his own skills, it's obvious they cannot gain LVLs ... or am I wrong ????
My Ready-to-rock&roll chars:
Dertinus Tristany // Amilcar Barca // Vicenç Sacrarius // Oriol Deulofeu // Grovtuk
The caster is still the caster, it's just being delivered by the familiar. If the familiar was able to cast the spell without the Wizard, then it could have one but it wouldn't obey the Wizard, only the familiar.
well, the homunculus is sapient, so it might theoretically be able to gain class levels, however that is of course not relevant to the conversation
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
well that is the thing that made me wonder, it says as follows:
notice how it says "as if it had cast it", its unclear exactly what it means by that, does it mean that the the homunculus is for a time treated as the caster? Or is "as if it had cast the spell" shorthand for "casting the spell at the familiars location"? that is exactly why i made the post.
as for the whole "it would not obey the wizard" part, no it would not obey the wizards direct commands, but it would follow the commands of the familliar to the best of its abillity, yes that is indeed an dangerous game of broken telephone, especially if your familliar has an intelegence score to low to be properly sapient, but you can totally do it (possibly, maybe)
of course, during the casting your wizard is the caster, so an wizard must give his familliar a homunculus before he makes his own homunculus
and also of course the primary benefit of the homunculus, the constant scrying effect allowing you to see through its senses is of course lost but it whould still be useful for some other things
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Yes it is relevant. Because if it gains lvls.... why not applying a skill on the Hommunculus ???
My Ready-to-rock&roll chars:
Dertinus Tristany // Amilcar Barca // Vicenç Sacrarius // Oriol Deulofeu // Grovtuk
okay so what the **** do you mean with why not applying "a skill" on the hummunculus ??? what? This was about your familliar having an homunculus and you also having an homunculus, what concept are you trying to communicate here?
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
OK, first off: Familiars cannot cast a spell unless the statblock says so. The reference about delivering a spell "as if" it had cast it is so you know the rules on delivering the spell and choosing targets, it doesn't actually make the familiar the caster. Context is key. Taking something away from the context doesn't change things. Read the whole, not just the words that suit you. So no, you cannot have two homunculi.
The homunculus is a creature and all relevant rules apply to it as they would to creatures. This includes gaining levels if the DM permits it.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
yeah you're right, but there is an incredibly flimsy explination for how an familliar could still get an homunculus without being the caster: in delivering the spell yourself, you take a crystal dagger and cut yourself with it, dripping your blood on the material components. But if the familliar delivered the spell, shurely they would need to cut themselves, and now it is not your blood on the homunculus's material components, so will the homunculus even be bonded to you, or the creature that gave its blood in the casting (this is an so flimsy explination that it falls part almost immedeatly, there is no need to debunk this)
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes