I doubt you care about this question posed 4 years ago however as someone with a reasonably high lvl necro (14 13lvls wizard 1lvl fighter) I think i can answer the question quite well. And the answer is in 5e Necromancers are incredibly powerful. While keeping a lvl 6&5 slot in reserve i have 52 skellies running and can raise 36 after a total wipe (without reserve).
Max raise full slot expenditure: 34 (my extra 2 come from nightcaller whistle) Max maintain full slot expenditure: 64 (at least 1 3rd lvl slot is needed to continue raising more skellies)
How you run it: 0. Skellies are better combatants then zombies, even in melee, simply give them 2 short swords, also ranged unites are easier to use and we are trying not to take to long on our turns 1. cast your raise dead just before the end of your long rest (long rest can be interrupted by up to 1 hour of intense activity such as combat or spell casting without losing the long rest if dm objects then cast right before long rest, this will allow you to adventure with full slots and an army, though it is necessary for you to get something like a watch or keen mind so as to keep track of time as adventuring with a group of skeletons more then happy to tpk you is not safe. 2. in combat cast faerie fire and use bonus action to order skellies to attack specific targets and have them move to specific locations, (if your dm is picky pre-make formations to order out) 3. watch as 50 attacks are made at advantage with over 55 percent of them rolling a 19(the ac of an adult red dragon) or better (https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2014/07/12/dnd-5e-advantage-disadvantage-probability/) assuming half hit you deal 200-325 (([1]+7)*25)-(([6]+7)*25) and with some serious gold to buy magic +1bows you can bump those rookie numbers right up to 225-350 and make it magical peircing.
Next is the lvl fourteen feature. Night walker is the ideal target for the following reasons. It's cr20, really easy to get your hands on, and weak to the ability. Simply find and innocent passerby and cast plane shift to the negative plain. "For each creature that enters the (negative) plane, a nightwalker is released to take its place."
Thanks for illustrating why I hate threads about Necromancers.
Dozens of skeletons? I guess if you want to make the game about having an army and the other players are okay with it, then that's fine. But, in most games, the goal is dungeon crawling or sneaking into a monster's lair or the like, NOT running a military campaign.
Most players are not running their typical fights in an arena.
Threads about getting the most out of a necromancer PC should start with the assumption that there's no more than about 8 undead MAX under the Necro's control.
While I'd advise against it (it being serious necromancy) unless you were using a vtt for roll convenience (and stacking the undead into stacks of 5 or 10 per token) true, but it's not far off running a druid who is anything other then moon (raptors anyone?). Btw limiting the number to 8 is ridiculous, you'd literally be worse off then if you just cast animate objects.
As to dungeon crawling, or sneaking, i find that dnd because it is freeform reacts very well to you saying **** that i'm solving the problem like this. And when you have an army to lean back on, it changes how you handle situations (not in a negative way mind you) and, wizards generally make terrible stealthers anyway. We have rogues, bards, warlocks, dex fighters, monks, or rangers whom excel at such gameplay for that. Wizards are trump card or aoe in the party.
Necromancers aren't builds that are suited for every game (read: they are useful for open world sandbox-y games such as featured in critical roll where the point is to tell a story of a world, or games like dungeon of the mad mage where combat and loot are all that matter and everyone is useing min-maxed kits and require a certain type of table) but the idea of arbitrarily limiting them to a number of undead feels dumb, the idea of a necromancer is a to command a horde just like the idea of the paladin is to smite those whom stand in the way of your oath. Saying you can only smite 2 times per session kinda kills the point.
Simply limit the players character choice or get everyone on board for it. Is it a build that ****s with a standard game? Yes. So you're right in most games necromancers aren't advisable, if you are going wizard and want to feel o.p. (first i'd check with your dm and make sure you're not ******* the feel of the game) i'd advise blade singer as it is less disruptive. I mean a wizard in general get's rediculous if you play them right. Plainer binding, soul jar, running a cc build, etc. Now if a dm and group of buddies/buddiets is on board for it ho- boy are you in for an interesting game. But do that after you are comfortable in dnd in general.
You will be defeated by a simple door such as you might find in a dungeon. Moving 20 skeletons through a five foot wide door, square-by-square, organizing a bunch of bones without brains, will quickly tell you better than anything I might say, how f***ing ridiculous a necromancer adventurer who relies on 20 skeletons is.
As for 8 skeletons being weaker than the Animate Object spell, I disagree. The Animate Object spell has a much shorter duration and requires concentration. So, you can't do stuff like have your skeletons grapple an opponent inside a Stinking Cloud spell that you cast.
i get that you hate army's but, again a on a vtt they aren't that bad, taking less then 30 sec per turn, and again druids regularly get more summons then this. and getting any amount of skellies be they 5 or 200 never takes more then 6 sec to walk through a door, and as the person who *has* actually used a large amount of skellies, i can tell you, its not that bad.
As for grappling in stinking cloud, due to the fact you are trying to have fast turns it becomes efficient to not attempt odd strategies, simply put, you could do that sure, but why? Your turn will be considerably longer which isn't worth the benefit.
And yes as a necromancer you want an army, what part of necromancer says less then a horde? You'd have a prefix for that *bad*.
Druids in the games I'm in only occasionally cast summons. It isn't an "always on" kind of problem.
Another issue for me is that you aren't exactly subtle. Monsters are going to hear you from a long ways off. They are going to have time to set up ambushes (traps, snipers, clerics with turning, etc.) We famously nearly had a TPK the last time a PC was routinely this loud everywhere they went.
And yes as a necromancer you want an army
I totally disagree. The undead horde is not a universal necromancer trope.
You can focus on curses instead, for examle.
Now, note, I'm not saying that you should never be able to have such an army. The GM should mix things up occasionally and give you an opportunity to do this, because it is fun. But, to do it all the time, I'm just not seeing it.
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Edit: solution already provided.
Necromancer Games - Book of Lost Spells its 3rd party but it adds a lot to the spell list
https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/gentle-repose
Just find a way to keep the salt and copper in place, and those zombies require recasting spells a lot less...
I doubt you care about this question posed 4 years ago however as someone with a reasonably high lvl necro (14 13lvls wizard 1lvl fighter) I think i can answer the question quite well. And the answer is in 5e Necromancers are incredibly powerful. While keeping a lvl 6&5 slot in reserve i have 52 skellies running and can raise 36 after a total wipe (without reserve).
Number crunching:
These are my lvl 3+ slots: 3 lvl3, 3 lvl4, 2 lvl5, 1 lvl6, 1 lvl7
lvl3 slots: 2 raised, 4 maintained
lvl4 slots: 3 raised, 6 maintained
lvl5 slots: 4 raised, 8 maintained
lvl6 slots: 5 raised, 10 maintained
lvl7 slots: 6 raised, 12 maintained
Max raise full slot expenditure: 34 (my extra 2 come from nightcaller whistle)
Max maintain full slot expenditure: 64 (at least 1 3rd lvl slot is needed to continue raising more skellies)
How you run it:
0. Skellies are better combatants then zombies, even in melee, simply give them 2 short swords, also ranged unites are easier to use and we are trying not to take to long on our turns
1. cast your raise dead just before the end of your long rest (long rest can be interrupted by up to 1 hour of intense activity such as combat or spell casting without losing the long rest if dm objects then cast right before long rest, this will allow you to adventure with full slots and an army, though it is necessary for you to get something like a watch or keen mind so as to keep track of time as adventuring with a group of skeletons more then happy to tpk you is not safe.
2. in combat cast faerie fire and use bonus action to order skellies to attack specific targets and have them move to specific locations, (if your dm is picky pre-make formations to order out)
3. watch as 50 attacks are made at advantage with over 55 percent of them rolling a 19(the ac of an adult red dragon) or better (https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2014/07/12/dnd-5e-advantage-disadvantage-probability/) assuming half hit you deal 200-325 (([1]+7)*25)-(([6]+7)*25) and with some serious gold to buy magic +1bows you can bump those rookie numbers right up to 225-350 and make it magical peircing.
Next is the lvl fourteen feature. Night walker is the ideal target for the following reasons. It's cr20, really easy to get your hands on, and weak to the ability. Simply find and innocent passerby and cast plane shift to the negative plain. "For each creature that enters the (negative) plane, a nightwalker is released to take its place."
Thanks for illustrating why I hate threads about Necromancers.
Dozens of skeletons? I guess if you want to make the game about having an army and the other players are okay with it, then that's fine. But, in most games, the goal is dungeon crawling or sneaking into a monster's lair or the like, NOT running a military campaign.
Most players are not running their typical fights in an arena.
Threads about getting the most out of a necromancer PC should start with the assumption that there's no more than about 8 undead MAX under the Necro's control.
While I'd advise against it (it being serious necromancy) unless you were using a vtt for roll convenience (and stacking the undead into stacks of 5 or 10 per token) true, but it's not far off running a druid who is anything other then moon (raptors anyone?). Btw limiting the number to 8 is ridiculous, you'd literally be worse off then if you just cast animate objects.
As to dungeon crawling, or sneaking, i find that dnd because it is freeform reacts very well to you saying **** that i'm solving the problem like this. And when you have an army to lean back on, it changes how you handle situations (not in a negative way mind you) and, wizards generally make terrible stealthers anyway. We have rogues, bards, warlocks, dex fighters, monks, or rangers whom excel at such gameplay for that. Wizards are trump card or aoe in the party.
Necromancers aren't builds that are suited for every game (read: they are useful for open world sandbox-y games such as featured in critical roll where the point is to tell a story of a world, or games like dungeon of the mad mage where combat and loot are all that matter and everyone is useing min-maxed kits and require a certain type of table) but the idea of arbitrarily limiting them to a number of undead feels dumb, the idea of a necromancer is a to command a horde just like the idea of the paladin is to smite those whom stand in the way of your oath. Saying you can only smite 2 times per session kinda kills the point.
Simply limit the players character choice or get everyone on board for it. Is it a build that ****s with a standard game? Yes. So you're right in most games necromancers aren't advisable, if you are going wizard and want to feel o.p. (first i'd check with your dm and make sure you're not ******* the feel of the game) i'd advise blade singer as it is less disruptive. I mean a wizard in general get's rediculous if you play them right. Plainer binding, soul jar, running a cc build, etc. Now if a dm and group of buddies/buddiets is on board for it ho- boy are you in for an interesting game. But do that after you are comfortable in dnd in general.
You want an army.
You will be defeated by a simple door such as you might find in a dungeon. Moving 20 skeletons through a five foot wide door, square-by-square, organizing a bunch of bones without brains, will quickly tell you better than anything I might say, how f***ing ridiculous a necromancer adventurer who relies on 20 skeletons is.
As for 8 skeletons being weaker than the Animate Object spell, I disagree. The Animate Object spell has a much shorter duration and requires concentration. So, you can't do stuff like have your skeletons grapple an opponent inside a Stinking Cloud spell that you cast.
i get that you hate army's but, again a on a vtt they aren't that bad, taking less then 30 sec per turn, and again druids regularly get more summons then this. and getting any amount of skellies be they 5 or 200 never takes more then 6 sec to walk through a door, and as the person who *has* actually used a large amount of skellies, i can tell you, its not that bad.
As for grappling in stinking cloud, due to the fact you are trying to have fast turns it becomes efficient to not attempt odd strategies, simply put, you could do that sure, but why? Your turn will be considerably longer which isn't worth the benefit.
And yes as a necromancer you want an army, what part of necromancer says less then a horde? You'd have a prefix for that *bad*.
Druids in the games I'm in only occasionally cast summons. It isn't an "always on" kind of problem.
Another issue for me is that you aren't exactly subtle. Monsters are going to hear you from a long ways off. They are going to have time to set up ambushes (traps, snipers, clerics with turning, etc.) We famously nearly had a TPK the last time a PC was routinely this loud everywhere they went.
I totally disagree. The undead horde is not a universal necromancer trope.
You can focus on curses instead, for examle.
Now, note, I'm not saying that you should never be able to have such an army. The GM should mix things up occasionally and give you an opportunity to do this, because it is fun. But, to do it all the time, I'm just not seeing it.