That's where the problem lies, if they're separated by anything it's their mechanics not their fluff, they all play very differently- which is what I'm saying. I'm not sure how that isn't self-evident from looking at the sub classes.
but what ever - all i see here are vicious zealots defending their little pet class and cant take anyone questioning anything about it
Bladesinger = Full Wizard that boosts AC and has major damage mitigation to keep himself alive.
College of Swords = Bard focusing on Flourishes that do a variety of different things.
Bladesinger features boost AC and concentration checks, give an extra attack, turn spell slots into damage reduction and add INT to attacks.
College of Swords features give a fighting style, allow for Flourishes (One that boosts AC, One that gives you a pseudo Whirlwind Attack, and one that pushes your opponent), gives an extra attack, and allows for Flourishes without expending Bardic Inspiration die.
Are some of the features similar? Sure. In the same way that Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster have some overlap (Both get the Spellcasting trait, Magical Ambush and Eldritch Strike both give opponents disadvantage to spell saves, etc). But looking at the features there are only 2 similar features really. Bladesong and Blade Flourish both can boost AC (Tho Song is a static boost and Flourish is a roll) and both get to make 2 attacks at level 6. Otherwise there is very little similarity.
Both subclasses are designed to make a traditionally backline caster into a gish, but the main differences come mostly from the primary class abilities. A Bladesinger and a College of Swords Bard are as different as a Evocationist and a Lore Bard. The biggest difference is they are different classes.
but what ever - all i see here are vicious zealots defending their little pet class and cant take anyone questioning anything about it
Bladesinger = Full Wizard that boosts AC and has major damage mitigation to keep himself alive.
College of Swords = Bard focusing on Flourishes that do a variety of different things.
Bladesinger features boost AC and concentration checks, give an extra attack, turn spell slots into damage reduction and add INT to attacks.
College of Swords features give a fighting style, allow for Flourishes (One that boosts AC, One that gives you a pseudo Whirlwind Attack, and one that pushes your opponent), gives an extra attack, and allows for Flourishes without expending Bardic Inspiration die.
Are some of the features similar? Sure. In the same way that Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster have some overlap (Both get the Spellcasting trait, Magical Ambush and Eldritch Strike both give opponents disadvantage to spell saves, etc). But looking at the features there are only 2 similar features really. Bladesong and Blade Flourish both can boost AC (Tho Song is a static boost and Flourish is a roll) and both get to make 2 attacks at level 6. Otherwise there is very little similarity.
Both subclasses are designed to make a traditionally backline caster into a gish, but the main differences come mostly from the primary class abilities. A Bladesinger and a College of Swords Bard are as different as a Evocationist and a Lore Bard. The biggest difference is they are different classes.
I agree with this. In regards to the Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin point: Yes they all hit things with swords but mechanically they have very different tools at their disposal.
Fighters can be ranged, melee or even mix arcane magic into their fighting, allowing them to be extremely flexible. Barbarians excel at standing in the front line, far more so than their counterparts due to rage. They also have the most reliable use for GWM through reckless attack. Paladins are the kings of crits yes, and they swing weapons around, but they have access to divine magic and healing, something the other two classes can't remotely replicate outside of the fighter's second wind ability. Do they all swing swords and hit things? Yes. They all do it well, but besides their fluff, which is important in a roleplaying game, they have mechanical tools at their disposal which make them all very different from one another.
As GarrettKP said, the Bladesinger and College of Swords Bard mechanically have differences which result in them being played different. A Bladesinger is, first and foremost, a wizard with wizard hitpoints along with the crazy selection of wizard spells,thanks to their spellbook, many the bard doesn't get to touch until level 10 via Magical Secrets. Haste, Shield, Misty Step and many others are all spells bards don't normally get access to, which can help the gish playstyle extremely well.
Bards on the other hard have better hitpoints, can wear better armor, have healing and restoration spells along with spells such as raise dead which the wizard will never be able to touch. Their magical secrets also allow them to pluck any spells they want allowing for a very flexible playstyle.
The way you are looking at it, Zoulrage, is that they are both full spellcasters who can increase their AC while attacking twice, and have similar sounding themes. Sure this is true, but the playstyle and tools at each class' disposal are vastly different. I completely understand why you see the classes to be similar and it looks like you may favor the bard which is great! I personally am playing a Bladesinger but will be playing a Valor or Sword Bard in another game after seeing its uses alongside my Bladesinger as I want to see just how impactful the different classes are themselves!
but what ever - all i see here are vicious zealots defending their little pet class and cant take anyone questioning anything about it
Wizard and Sorcerer both throw arcane magic right? Why do we have a Druid and a Cleric of Nature? Why have a Fighter with a bow and a Ranger with a bow?
Flavor is what makes these classes different from each other. The reality is, they're all pretty much the same class - an RPG class. Every character is different, even if you only play Fighters for 20 years. Each Fighter tends to have it's own personality, based on whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it however you want it done. In case you forgot, it's about the time at the table with people (maybe even people you love), not about nit-picking class schema.
Bladesong seems really strong and worth a 2 lvl dip into wizard for almost any melee martial class. Just a flat bonus to speed and ac with a few spells, cantrips, and spellslots and the ability to ritually cast any lvl 1 wizard ritual whenever you want is pretty powerful. And you could always copy more lvl 1 spells into your spellbook if you come across them. Shield for physical hits, absorb elements for elemental ones (which would give a nice boost to your next attack), find familiar ritual for advantage once per turn, longstrider for even more speed or jump if needed, mage armor if you're awoken to enemies in the middle of the night so you can have some ac at least rather than fighting naked, expeditious retreat for even more mobility. It just seems like a really worth it dip. Even if you don't have much int, most of the spells you would be using don't depend on spell attack rolls or saving throws and you would still get at least 1 ac (need 13 int to multiclass) and +10 movement speed in addition to the spells, spell slots, and cantrips. And you get to throw proficiency with performance on as a bonus for whenever you try to be fancy with your execution move.
If you're a Dex Eldritch Knight or an Arcane Trickster (or both), Bladesinger is a very good 2+ level dip for all the reasons above. In fact, my favorite combination is EK 8/BS 2/AT 10 for Tarrasque level AC, solo advantage for sneak attack, and hefty GFB or BBs. There's a lot you can get from Bladesinger, solo or multiclass, and I'm glad its currently official material instead of being UA like many of the other nifty options are at this time.
I have been wanting to try EK 8/Swashbuckler 5/BS 7 or Ek 13/ BS 2/ Swashbuckler 5. Swashbuckler offers Fancy Footwork at 3rd ( if you make a melee attack against a creature, that creature can't make an opportunity attack against you for the rest of your turn) and Rakish Audacity at 3rd ( You add charisma to your initiative rolls and you don't need advantage on your attack roll to sneak attack if no creature other than your target is within 5 feet of you). Combine this with haste and you can be all over the battlefield without fear of opportunity attacks, not that it would matter with your high AC. I figured 5th swashbuckler for the 3d6 on your sneak attack.
This would be versatile and fun to try, I can see the roll play possibilities of such a class. Not a powerhouse but something interesting.
As far as dipping with BS goes, the addition of the mystic class provides the only worthwhile option for a ninth level spell slot BS. The +3 AC from one level in mystic is pretty nuts. Before equipment, you could end up with 23 AC. After leather armor +3, you're at 28. Oh look, you're right up there with a barbarian and fully decked heavy armor + shield fighter now. If you throw in your self haste and various magical item attunements, you're pretty close to 35 AC without relying on anyone else. How many creatures can hit 35 AC without a crit? If a boss fight actually lasts long enough for your first blade song to expire, refresh it and cast shapechange for some lulzy results (I would do this sooner, but I'm a fan of having an ace up my sleeve). I'm a Marilith with an absurd amount of AC and damage output. Shoot, some of my party members are unconscious. I better switch over to a celestial for some healing touches. Well, job's done. I guess I could turn into a dragon so we can carry all this loot out of the lair.
If you're a Dex Eldritch Knight or an Arcane Trickster (or both), Bladesinger is a very good 2+ level dip for all the reasons above. In fact, my favorite combination is EK 8/BS 2/AT 10 for Tarrasque level AC, solo advantage for sneak attack, and hefty GFB or BBs. There's a lot you can get from Bladesinger, solo or multiclass, and I'm glad its currently official material instead of being UA like many of the other nifty options are at this time.
Beyond the extra ASIs, I'm not sure I see the value is in putting that much into EK. Based on the multi-class rules, your highest spell level is going to be two. This means you can't cast the almighty haste on yourself. To access haste, you need to be at least level 5 in BS. My mod to this would be EK 4/BS 5/AT 10/M 1. The haste will give you another 2 AC and the mystic dip will grant you access to 3 AC through the iron durability focus and bestial transformation's tough hide. You sacrifice one ASI, but it's worth it imo. You can also pick up the blade meld talent if you're worried about dropping your weapon.
I actually prefer the Arcane Trickster/Bladesinger multiclass, specifically AT 12/BS 8. You can get up to 3 attacks per round with Haste, or just 1 powerful Booming Blade backed by Sneak Attack. You have stupidly high AC (22 without magical items) and Cunning Action (and in my case Fey Step because I'm an Eladrin :P) to get the **** out of dodge when the going gets tough or when you want to trigger the extra Booming Blade damage. Mirror Image and Fire Shield are brilliant because they don't require concentration. You have loads of tricks to help you survive in melee, I only wish it had more HP.
This is actually a very interesting build. While you won't learn any fifth or sex level spells, you will get two fifth level and one sixth level spell slots. You could get up to four attacks per round if you get an opportunity attack. Since sneak attack is per turn, an opportunity attack would trigger another sneak attack if the conditions are met. I imagine there are some shenanigans to be had if one dipped a rogue into revised ranger for the tunnel fighter's unlimited opportunity attacks in defensive stance and had an ally with mass suggestion or mantle of majesty. You could potentially end up with sustained, high impact AOE through two bonus actions. :D
Hey i'm new to dungeons and dragons (as in never played before) and am looking to make a bladesinger, is it possible to be an Eladrin Bladesinger?
If this is a stupid question i apologise, i've looked for ages on all kinds of websites but never seen it specifically stated, merely saying it is generally an Elf Only kind of class. Really hoping it counts as Eladrin are cousins to the elves and, in a way, more like how elves were before they left Arvandor. (Again please excuse my lacking knowledge, just looking to get into the game and have fun, no one i know has played before either.)
Hey i'm new to dungeons and dragons (as in never played before) and am looking to make a bladesinger, is it possible to be an Eladrin Bladesinger?
If this is a stupid question i apologise, i've looked for ages on all kinds of websites but never seen it specifically stated, merely saying it is generally an Elf Only kind of class. Really hoping it counts as Eladrin are cousins to the elves and, in a way, more like how elves were before they left Arvandor. (Again please excuse my lacking knowledge, just looking to get into the game and have fun, no one i know has played before either.)
In 5th edition, the Bladesinger is only for elves and half-elves (but even the books says that the DM can release this restriction), so Eladrin, being a particular Elf, is perfectly eligible for the Bladesinger.
dude what are you on about? i can bloody well read... im just saying take all the fluff away and they are pretty simular...
That's where the problem lies, if they're separated by anything it's their mechanics not their fluff, they all play very differently- which is what I'm saying. I'm not sure how that isn't self-evident from looking at the sub classes.
they hit stuff with a sword with some fancy bonusses
they are full spell casters
Reductionist thinking much?
just saying they looked pretty simular
By that logic, take away the "fluff" and barbarian, fighter, and paladin are all the same too. Hit stuff with your sword.
In my game we have a bladesinger (me) and a blade bard and we play completely differently.
not really
fighter = alot of attacks
paladin = hard hitting attacks
barbarian = hard hittings crits
but what ever - all i see here are vicious zealots defending their little pet class and cant take anyone questioning anything about it
Let's try to keep this civil, yeah? Rather than berate each other's opinions, lets just share them without criticism.
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College of Swords = Bard focusing on Flourishes that do a variety of different things.
Bladesinger features boost AC and concentration checks, give an extra attack, turn spell slots into damage reduction and add INT to attacks.
College of Swords features give a fighting style, allow for Flourishes (One that boosts AC, One that gives you a pseudo Whirlwind Attack, and one that pushes your opponent), gives an extra attack, and allows for Flourishes without expending Bardic Inspiration die.
Are some of the features similar? Sure. In the same way that Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster have some overlap (Both get the Spellcasting trait, Magical Ambush and Eldritch Strike both give opponents disadvantage to spell saves, etc). But looking at the features there are only 2 similar features really. Bladesong and Blade Flourish both can boost AC (Tho Song is a static boost and Flourish is a roll) and both get to make 2 attacks at level 6. Otherwise there is very little similarity.
Both subclasses are designed to make a traditionally backline caster into a gish, but the main differences come mostly from the primary class abilities. A Bladesinger and a College of Swords Bard are as different as a Evocationist and a Lore Bard. The biggest difference is they are different classes.
In regards to the Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin point: Yes they all hit things with swords but mechanically they have very different tools at their disposal.
Barbarians excel at standing in the front line, far more so than their counterparts due to rage. They also have the most reliable use for GWM through reckless attack.
Paladins are the kings of crits yes, and they swing weapons around, but they have access to divine magic and healing, something the other two classes can't remotely replicate outside of the fighter's second wind ability.
Do they all swing swords and hit things? Yes. They all do it well, but besides their fluff, which is important in a roleplaying game, they have mechanical tools at their disposal which make them all very different from one another.
I completely understand why you see the classes to be similar and it looks like you may favor the bard which is great! I personally am playing a Bladesinger but will be playing a Valor or Sword Bard in another game after seeing its uses alongside my Bladesinger as I want to see just how impactful the different classes are themselves!
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Bladesong seems really strong and worth a 2 lvl dip into wizard for almost any melee martial class. Just a flat bonus to speed and ac with a few spells, cantrips, and spellslots and the ability to ritually cast any lvl 1 wizard ritual whenever you want is pretty powerful. And you could always copy more lvl 1 spells into your spellbook if you come across them. Shield for physical hits, absorb elements for elemental ones (which would give a nice boost to your next attack), find familiar ritual for advantage once per turn, longstrider for even more speed or jump if needed, mage armor if you're awoken to enemies in the middle of the night so you can have some ac at least rather than fighting naked, expeditious retreat for even more mobility. It just seems like a really worth it dip. Even if you don't have much int, most of the spells you would be using don't depend on spell attack rolls or saving throws and you would still get at least 1 ac (need 13 int to multiclass) and +10 movement speed in addition to the spells, spell slots, and cantrips. And you get to throw proficiency with performance on as a bonus for whenever you try to be fancy with your execution move.
If you're a Dex Eldritch Knight or an Arcane Trickster (or both), Bladesinger is a very good 2+ level dip for all the reasons above. In fact, my favorite combination is EK 8/BS 2/AT 10 for Tarrasque level AC, solo advantage for sneak attack, and hefty GFB or BBs. There's a lot you can get from Bladesinger, solo or multiclass, and I'm glad its currently official material instead of being UA like many of the other nifty options are at this time.
I have been wanting to try EK 8/Swashbuckler 5/BS 7 or Ek 13/ BS 2/ Swashbuckler 5. Swashbuckler offers Fancy Footwork at 3rd ( if you make a melee attack against a creature, that creature can't make an opportunity attack against you for the rest of your turn) and Rakish Audacity at 3rd ( You add charisma to your initiative rolls and you don't need advantage on your attack roll to sneak attack if no creature other than your target is within 5 feet of you). Combine this with haste and you can be all over the battlefield without fear of opportunity attacks, not that it would matter with your high AC. I figured 5th swashbuckler for the 3d6 on your sneak attack.
This would be versatile and fun to try, I can see the roll play possibilities of such a class. Not a powerhouse but something interesting.
As far as dipping with BS goes, the addition of the mystic class provides the only worthwhile option for a ninth level spell slot BS. The +3 AC from one level in mystic is pretty nuts. Before equipment, you could end up with 23 AC. After leather armor +3, you're at 28. Oh look, you're right up there with a barbarian and fully decked heavy armor + shield fighter now. If you throw in your self haste and various magical item attunements, you're pretty close to 35 AC without relying on anyone else. How many creatures can hit 35 AC without a crit? If a boss fight actually lasts long enough for your first blade song to expire, refresh it and cast shapechange for some lulzy results (I would do this sooner, but I'm a fan of having an ace up my sleeve). I'm a Marilith with an absurd amount of AC and damage output. Shoot, some of my party members are unconscious. I better switch over to a celestial for some healing touches. Well, job's done. I guess I could turn into a dragon so we can carry all this loot out of the lair.
Hey i'm new to dungeons and dragons (as in never played before) and am looking to make a bladesinger, is it possible to be an Eladrin Bladesinger?
If this is a stupid question i apologise, i've looked for ages on all kinds of websites but never seen it specifically stated, merely saying it is generally an Elf Only kind of class. Really hoping it counts as Eladrin are cousins to the elves and, in a way, more like how elves were before they left Arvandor. (Again please excuse my lacking knowledge, just looking to get into the game and have fun, no one i know has played before either.)
This really helps me a lot, thanks a ton!