Genuine pet peeve with this site is that it's always confusing Devil's Sight as Darkvision. If you take Devil's Sight as a warlock invocation here, the site gives the character Darkvision to 120'. It. Is. Not. Darkvision!
Devil’s Sight
You can see normally in darkness, both magical and nonmagical, to a distance of 120 feet.
So in Dim Light, if I had Darkvision and Devil's Sight, I could see normally out to my Darkvision distance, but beyond that would still be dim light. In complete darkness, I could see normally out to my Devil's Sight distance. Without Darkvision, though, my Devil's Sight has no affect on Dim Light conditions. And if I have Darkvision but not Devil's Sight, then darkness is dim light out to the darkvision limit.
You are absolutely right, but the team would need to rework how darkvision works to include all the exceptions.
I'll let you know.
All they need to do is not make Devil's Sight give Darkvision. If they wanted to go the whole hog, have the tag in the senses box simply be 'Devil's Sight'. Exceptions aren't really necessary since there's no 'dim light' toggle anywhere so it's not like either of these affect calculations in the sheet.
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"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
Ignoring how it shows up on the character sheet for a moment.
No it isn't Dark vision, it's more powerful. At least the way me and my group interpret it, we read it as you effectively have bright vision up to 120ft at all times then there is just a wall of darkness at the end of the range.
It doesn't mention Dim light in the text because if it can ignore full on darkness, pretty likely it just ignores dim light too.
Look up any 'devil' in the monster manual, it's Devil Sight describes "Devil's Sight. Magical darkness doesn't impede the devil's *darkvision*." All Devil's have Darkvision, i have the eyes of a Devil ipso facto i have Darkvision. If i can see through magical darkness, nonmagical darkness is a cake walk
Theres no interaction with dim light because you can see 'normally in darkness both magical and *non magical* non magical darkness would just be...darkness, dim light, darkness, shadow, call it any form of light obscurrity caused by light or abscence of light and i can see through it unless stated by the obscuritty
Just hard to believe that the way you hide from devils is with a light dimmer. Just dont make it too dim, then its darkness and i can see through that
So you hide from devils in shadows, but once those shadows become darkness now they can see... lol
Looks like they need to release a shadow level chart 1-5, devils can see through darkness at 4 and 5 but 1-3 is dim light, devils cant see through that x d
I think the thing that so many people are missing here is that the Devil's Sight invocation is a magical effect (and PACT magic at that), not a biological one. This is why is makes sense that Devil's Sight would operate as written and affect only total darkness and not dim light. This is not just an oversight like so many people seem to think when they houserule it. You are the servant of a powerful entity who is most likely evil, and there is a ton of exciting flavor to the idea that your evil overlord grants you perfect vision once you are in total darkness, hidden from the normal world. You become the thing that creeps in the dark, the scary monster under the bed. But in dim light, your evil overlord does not grant you perfect vision. That is not their desire it seems. Besides, you can still see at a disadvantage (assuming you don't have darkvision) in dim light, so that's even less reason for them to grant you superior sight in such conditions.
This just seems insane to me. mechanically and as a DM I have no idea how I could explain away that the devil can see you in complete darkness but add a little light and your hidden... I think a little common sense is in order. Also “dim light” is an area with a lot of darkness...
Devil's have darkvision. With darkvision dim light is treated as bright light. So with Devil's Sight on top it means they can see you clearly in darkness, dim light and bright light all the same. Essentially the only difference Devil's Sight grants a Devil is that magical darkness cannot block their darkvision.
For the invocation it works differently. Essentially instead of needing "light" to see by, you can use darkness instead, even if magical,, so you have vision equal to bright light in both actual bright light and in full darkness but dim light is still dim light for you. Unless you have darkvision as well, in which case it becomes exactly like the Devil's version of Devil's Light: seeing as if in bright light whether it's bright, dim or dark and regardless of whether magical or not.
The feature does not actually grant darkvision though, so yes, D&D Beyond is incorrect for adding darkvision to the character for this invocation.
That's the RAW anyway. The RAI might be different.
maybe not worth wading in but if you're looking for a "mechanical" explanation for how the Devil's Sight invocation could give normal sight in darkness and confer no benefit in dim light, just understand it this way: You can see by darkness instead of by light. When you're in dim light, you've got half darkness and half light, so your disadvantaged trying to see by light and you're disadvantaged if you try to see by darkness. But in bright light or full darkness, you're able to see fully.
(disclaimer: I am not a DM nor an expert, and "mechanical" explanations are not necessary for magical effects)
I never want to hear another word about 3.5 being overly complicated after reading this "rules lawyering", smh.
You may have RAW and RAI but there is a simple line where its just commonsense. As someone already pointed out, rather hilariously, imagine standing there with a dimmer switch.
Does a devil watch you go from full color (100%) to eventually a normal shadow and have this weird moment of a black and white shadow to then inverts back to full color at pitch black (0%) but even if there 0.0001% light its comepletely foiled.
Because I will promise you. If you bring this up at your table, in this most obtuse way; every single devil you have will only ever be faced and felled in dim light as your party will constantly do everything they can to prevent full darkness OR daylight and ruin your monster encounters. Fairie Fire and Sickening Radiance constantly just to light them up a little but not the room itself.
And Run from any DM table who ever says "RAW" vs "RAI" wins. DMing and playing is two-way. Find a new DM and let them grow up. If you're not happy; dont play under such a person who cant use basic logic. Some people arent meant to ever be DMs. Some designers arent meant to make games. (We all sorta remember/skipped 4e. So case in point.)
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Genuine pet peeve with this site is that it's always confusing Devil's Sight as Darkvision. If you take Devil's Sight as a warlock invocation here, the site gives the character Darkvision to 120'. It. Is. Not. Darkvision!
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/957029089465921536
So in Dim Light, if I had Darkvision and Devil's Sight, I could see normally out to my Darkvision distance, but beyond that would still be dim light. In complete darkness, I could see normally out to my Devil's Sight distance. Without Darkvision, though, my Devil's Sight has no affect on Dim Light conditions. And if I have Darkvision but not Devil's Sight, then darkness is dim light out to the darkvision limit.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
You are absolutely right, but the team would need to rework how darkvision works to include all the exceptions.
I'll let you know.
All they need to do is not make Devil's Sight give Darkvision. If they wanted to go the whole hog, have the tag in the senses box simply be 'Devil's Sight'. Exceptions aren't really necessary since there's no 'dim light' toggle anywhere so it's not like either of these affect calculations in the sheet.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
They should just rework it that devils sight gives you sight in dim light as well, it makes logical sense. That's how anyone I know houserules it.
Ignoring how it shows up on the character sheet for a moment.
No it isn't Dark vision, it's more powerful.
At least the way me and my group interpret it, we read it as you effectively have bright vision up to 120ft at all times then there is just a wall of darkness at the end of the range.
It doesn't mention Dim light in the text because if it can ignore full on darkness, pretty likely it just ignores dim light too.
That would be changing how the rules work, which is decidedly outside the purview of DDB.
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Darkvision is black and white devil's site is color and dim light still acts as dim light (dark room with a TV on) is how I would interpret it
My take is that Devil's sight is above/better than Darkvision so therefore you would see normally in any kind of darkness or dim light.
It's up for interpretation and clearly most people think it's just better darkvision so it makes sense for DNDBEYOND to display it that way.
Look up any 'devil' in the monster manual, it's Devil Sight describes "Devil's Sight. Magical darkness doesn't impede the devil's *darkvision*." All Devil's have Darkvision, i have the eyes of a Devil ipso facto i have Darkvision. If i can see through magical darkness, nonmagical darkness is a cake walk
I always interpreted it as allowing you to use darkness as illumination, which means dim light is still a problem for you.
Theres no interaction with dim light because you can see 'normally in darkness both magical and *non magical* non magical darkness would just be...darkness, dim light, darkness, shadow, call it any form of light obscurrity caused by light or abscence of light and i can see through it unless stated by the obscuritty
Just hard to believe that the way you hide from devils is with a light dimmer. Just dont make it too dim, then its darkness and i can see through that
So you hide from devils in shadows, but once those shadows become darkness now they can see... lol
Looks like they need to release a shadow level chart 1-5, devils can see through darkness at 4 and 5 but 1-3 is dim light, devils cant see through that x d
? There seems to be confusion because everything you said is agreeing with what i was saying
I think the thing that so many people are missing here is that the Devil's Sight invocation is a magical effect (and PACT magic at that), not a biological one. This is why is makes sense that Devil's Sight would operate as written and affect only total darkness and not dim light. This is not just an oversight like so many people seem to think when they houserule it. You are the servant of a powerful entity who is most likely evil, and there is a ton of exciting flavor to the idea that your evil overlord grants you perfect vision once you are in total darkness, hidden from the normal world. You become the thing that creeps in the dark, the scary monster under the bed. But in dim light, your evil overlord does not grant you perfect vision. That is not their desire it seems. Besides, you can still see at a disadvantage (assuming you don't have darkvision) in dim light, so that's even less reason for them to grant you superior sight in such conditions.
This just seems insane to me. mechanically and as a DM I have no idea how I could explain away that the devil can see you in complete darkness but add a little light and your hidden... I think a little common sense is in order. Also “dim light” is an area with a lot of darkness...
Devil's have darkvision. With darkvision dim light is treated as bright light. So with Devil's Sight on top it means they can see you clearly in darkness, dim light and bright light all the same. Essentially the only difference Devil's Sight grants a Devil is that magical darkness cannot block their darkvision.
For the invocation it works differently. Essentially instead of needing "light" to see by, you can use darkness instead, even if magical,, so you have vision equal to bright light in both actual bright light and in full darkness but dim light is still dim light for you. Unless you have darkvision as well, in which case it becomes exactly like the Devil's version of Devil's Light: seeing as if in bright light whether it's bright, dim or dark and regardless of whether magical or not.
The feature does not actually grant darkvision though, so yes, D&D Beyond is incorrect for adding darkvision to the character for this invocation.
That's the RAW anyway. The RAI might be different.
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glad you aren't my DM
maybe not worth wading in but if you're looking for a "mechanical" explanation for how the Devil's Sight invocation could give normal sight in darkness and confer no benefit in dim light, just understand it this way: You can see by darkness instead of by light. When you're in dim light, you've got half darkness and half light, so your disadvantaged trying to see by light and you're disadvantaged if you try to see by darkness. But in bright light or full darkness, you're able to see fully.
(disclaimer: I am not a DM nor an expert, and "mechanical" explanations are not necessary for magical effects)
I never want to hear another word about 3.5 being overly complicated after reading this "rules lawyering", smh.
You may have RAW and RAI but there is a simple line where its just commonsense. As someone already pointed out, rather hilariously, imagine standing there with a dimmer switch.
Does a devil watch you go from full color (100%) to eventually a normal shadow and have this weird moment of a black and white shadow to then inverts back to full color at pitch black (0%) but even if there 0.0001% light its comepletely foiled.
Because I will promise you. If you bring this up at your table, in this most obtuse way; every single devil you have will only ever be faced and felled in dim light as your party will constantly do everything they can to prevent full darkness OR daylight and ruin your monster encounters. Fairie Fire and Sickening Radiance constantly just to light them up a little but not the room itself.
And Run from any DM table who ever says "RAW" vs "RAI" wins. DMing and playing is two-way. Find a new DM and let them grow up. If you're not happy; dont play under such a person who cant use basic logic. Some people arent meant to ever be DMs. Some designers arent meant to make games. (We all sorta remember/skipped 4e. So case in point.)