I'm going to comb through the EU regulations and see if this site may have violated them in this flubbed rollout. It's still usable, but if it's being maliciously compliant, us non-US countries have a tendency to side with the consumers and not the corporations. It might be worth it and hit them with a suit if that is the case. Money is what makes big corporations like Hasbro listen, not us moaning about it, and everyone knows Hasbro wants to go fully digital so they won't nuke this site (If they do, then they would be in clear violation of EU consumer rights and regulations, and would be open to a host of issues).
How this goes, as far as I've encountered in the past for other things is:
You paid for books and you still have complete access to the source books. The 2014 Core Rules are still available with no 2014 elements. So they haven't violated it there.
You pay a subscription which can be cancelled if you're unhappy with the product. Your monthly payment expires each month, so if you keep paying, it's tacit approval.
You don't pay for the character sheets, except for the subscription's ability to add more. Which you can stop paying.
So basically, as long as they don't remove your access to the permanently purchased products, you are not entitled to force them to fix a service you don't like. However, you are entitled to cancel said service, and in the long run that's the thing that will hurt their bottom line the most.
I'm going to comb through the EU regulations and see if this site may have violated them in this flubbed rollout. It's still usable, but if it's being maliciously compliant, us non-US countries have a tendency to side with the consumers and not the corporations. It might be worth it and hit them with a suit if that is the case. Money is what makes big corporations like Hasbro listen, not us moaning about it, and everyone knows Hasbro wants to go fully digital so they won't nuke this site (If they do, then they would be in clear violation of EU consumer rights and regulations, and would be open to a host of issues).
How this goes, as far as I've encountered in the past for other things is:
You paid for books and you still have complete access to the source books. The 2014 Core Rules are still available with no 2014 elements. So they haven't violated it there.
You pay a subscription which can be cancelled if you're unhappy with the product. Your monthly payment expires each month, so if you keep paying, it's tacit approval.
You don't pay for the character sheets, except for the subscription's ability to add more. Which you can stop paying.
So basically, as long as they don't remove your access to the permanently purchased products, you are not entitled to force them to fix a service you don't like. However, you are entitled to cancel said service, and in the long run that's the thing that will hurt their bottom line the most.
I noticed the same thing, but thank you for wording it waaaay better than I could hope to. I'll keep buying used 5e books and move back to pen and paper. There's way I'm shelling out money for this site when it's not useful for me to use.
I'm going to comb through the EU regulations and see if this site may have violated them in this flubbed rollout. It's still usable, but if it's being maliciously compliant, us non-US countries have a tendency to side with the consumers and not the corporations. It might be worth it and hit them with a suit if that is the case. Money is what makes big corporations like Hasbro listen, not us moaning about it, and everyone knows Hasbro wants to go fully digital so they won't nuke this site (If they do, then they would be in clear violation of EU consumer rights and regulations, and would be open to a host of issues).
How this goes, as far as I've encountered in the past for other things is:
You paid for books and you still have complete access to the source books. The 2014 Core Rules are still available with no 2014 elements. So they haven't violated it there.
You pay a subscription which can be cancelled if you're unhappy with the product. Your monthly payment expires each month, so if you keep paying, it's tacit approval.
You don't pay for the character sheets, except for the subscription's ability to add more. Which you can stop paying.
So basically, as long as they don't remove your access to the permanently purchased products, you are not entitled to force them to fix a service you don't like. However, you are entitled to cancel said service, and in the long run that's the thing that will hurt their bottom line the most.
I noticed the same thing, but thank you for wording it waaaay better than I could hope to. I'll keep buying used 5e books and move back to pen and paper. There's way I'm shelling out money for this site when it's not useful for me to use.
Honestly, if all DnDBeyond was, was a digital reference site, I'd still buy the official books. The character creator is nice, and I'm moving my games to 5.24 anyway, but the digital reference library is more valuable to me than even buying the PDFs. If they ever tried to take it away after our purchases (without offering the PDFs as they closed down) I'd be one of those driving a class action suit.
Until them I'm mostly ok with the new version, I just wish they'd fully support the homebrew for it.
I have a few small issues with the 2024 rules that could easily just be house ruled to resolve for the games I run.
But the biggest issue I have is the power creep in the new versions of classes. Most are just mechanically ”improved”, which makes old versions “bad choices.” If this hadn’t been the case I’dve happily ran games with both 2014/2024 versions.
I’d also would have been more likely to just adopt an entirely new edition, as I have many times since AD&D.
But for whatever reason rollout is a mess and this feels bad. Engineering 101 should’ve been to preserve the products functionality and with the 2024 rollout this was just not done. A last minute change to the rollout prevented it being even worse, and that the plan of having to add back 5e as “homebrew” destroyed any confidence I have in whatever they plan to do with 2024.
The fact that it was ever on the chopping block is too far, and “fixed/prevented” or not I’m genuinely not over that fact.
The lack of response is only ever more upsetting, so my subscription is still cancelled.
But I loved how the site used to run and be, and if that functionality is restored I’d sign back up. I paid for convenience. Every week I’m only more disappointed that a separate 5th edition resource isn’t available. It used to exist. Just make a “5e 2014 only” tier and version, and call it a day. Monk wouldn’t still be broken, item descriptions wouldn’t reference things from that aren’t relevant. Duplicate spells wouldn’t be an issue. And rules would reference the actual rules used and not be shoved at the bottom like an afterthought.
But until then, the moment I find a replacement resource to organize 5e games with my players, I’m gone.
I completely agree with all you've said. And the lack of response I feel is very telling. It just shows they really don't care about their customers. I'll still use it, at least for now, because it's very helpful for our crazy neurodivergent group. I'm still looking for good alternatives, but I've not found any as of yet. And there's always just using our physical books and paper. D&D Beyond, as useful and convenient as it was before they broke it, was always a convenience. It's not needed to run a game and we've played for years before it was even a thing.
It looks like beyond deleted my post on this subject - apparently my direct and coarse comments hurt someone's feelings. But, hey, at least I know someone other than fellow players viewed my comments.
I just want everyone to know I share your frustration, and Beyond should just fix these problems or tell us to shut up and take it.
You paid for books and you still have complete access to the source books.
While the access is theoretically there, they have been broken (or at least severely reduced in functionality) because all the cross-links now go to the 2024 versions instead of the appropriate versions for the content I own, and a lot of the selling points for why we bought the content here (such as the character builder) have been ****** or in some cases outright broken.
This a severe degradation in functionality compared to what I originally paid for, and like so many others, I'm both pissed and in shock that they could mess it all up this badly. This is something we should be taking up with consumer protection agencies in each of our jurisdictions.
Cancelled my sub. When you go to cancel they try to gaslight you even more by saying all the 2014 content is still there and unchanged, which is clearly a lie, and TBH just made me angry and want to cancel even more! What an absolute joke. Wish I could refund all the content I own here.
You paid for books and you still have complete access to the source books.
While the access is theoretically there, they have been broken (or at least severely reduced in functionality) because all the cross-links now go to the 2024 versions instead of the appropriate versions for the content I own, and a lot of the selling points for why we bought the content here (such as the character builder) have been ****** or in some cases outright broken.
This a severe degradation in functionality compared to what I originally paid for, and like so many others, I'm both pissed and in shock that they could mess it all up this badly. This is something we should be taking up with consumer protection agencies in each of our jurisdictions.
As mentioned above, 'functionality' is not what you paid for. The book is unchanged, in that it still contains the complete text you paid for. If you don't like the *functionality* of the site, you can stop subscribing and use it purely as a digitial copy of a paper book.
It just shows they don't care about us customers. They clearly don't know what customer service is. It's just about forcing their new stuff upon us. But they will never do this. There are several year old content from books they said they would add, but never did. Considering the changes they made to backgrounds, I highly doubt they even play the game. And if they do, it's the most basic characters. The quick build character you see in the books
Take a breath. None of your purchased content has been removed and no one is forcing you to do anything.
You just need to use the right version of the class. Make sure you have "2014 Rules" and "Expanded Rules" checked on the Home tab of the character builder, and change your class to the 2014 version.
This isn't helpful. Please stop trying to gaslight people into thinking a site-breaking issue for non-2024 players is anything otherwise.
While D&D Beyond has certainly made a horrible mess of this rollout from start to finish, I would not call this specific thing a "site-breaking issue" since, as I said, no one's purchased content has actually been removed and no one is being forced to do anything. Telling people that is not "gaslighting", and neither is helping them to learn how to use the tool properly.
If you want to cancel your subscription and not purchase the new products, go ahead. That's your choice. Please don't assume everyone who doesn't make the same choice you did is acting maliciously.
I had a character that when I level up, didn't get the selected spell. Then when I tried to pick again, it completely bugged out and I couldn't enter the character in the app
You paid for books and you still have complete access to the source books.
While the access is theoretically there, they have been broken (or at least severely reduced in functionality) because all the cross-links now go to the 2024 versions instead of the appropriate versions for the content I own, and a lot of the selling points for why we bought the content here (such as the character builder) have been ****** or in some cases outright broken.
This a severe degradation in functionality compared to what I originally paid for, and like so many others, I'm both pissed and in shock that they could mess it all up this badly. This is something we should be taking up with consumer protection agencies in each of our jurisdictions.
As mentioned above, 'functionality' is not what you paid for. The book is unchanged, in that it still contains the complete text you paid for. If you don't like the *functionality* of the site, you can stop subscribing and use it purely as a digitial copy of a paper book.
Absolutely untrue. When I bought these on D&DBeyond it was specifically with the understanding that they would be functional in this way. The pages where they are purchased even mention their searchability and the helpful online functionality. So yes, functionality IS part of what I paid for.
Perringaiden - I absolutely paid for "functionality." How can you presume to know what I paid for? I assume you love the new rules and the fact that they bleed into the legacy framework. Well good for you. But try to use your imagination. Imagine that you hated the new rules, but you felt comfortable because you were told they would not interfere with your chosen play style and preferred rules, but then you found out it was a lie? Since you don't agree with the vast majority of us in our concerns, why don't you join some other thread? You aren't convincing anyone...maybe you do represent management/ownership? That's the only reason i can conceive of that causes you to continue to "chime in." Anyway, may you live a thousand years.
The only way I see there is a chance for them to add this, is if it reaches the same level of backlash as they di with the OGL chances they tried to make
There's not a secret "Buy this book and guarantee functionality". That's how I know.
You pay for the functionality of the website through a subscription. If you don't like the functionality, you stop paying. That's how the contract works. You bought the text of the book, in a digital format, which allows you unlimited access to the text of the book. They give you 'free' access to the searchable lists and you pay subscriptions to get additional functionality. According to the agreement you signed by purchasing the book, you aren't guaranteed anything more than a digital copy of the text and included images.
I only represent me, but I also read things like access rights, and terms and conditions.
1.4Digital Content License: In the realm of D&D Beyond, the term "Digital Content" refers to the array of downloadable, playable, or accessible materials such as virtual items, artwork, digital sourcebooks, and adventures offered within the platform. This collective designation includes all forms of virtual goods, enhancements, and digital services available for acquisition or access through D&D Beyond.
Please be advised that the acquisition of Digital Content does not give you ownership rights. Instead, you are granted a limited, non-exclusive, and non-transferable license to use the Digital Content for personal, non-commercial entertainment purposes only. It is expressly stated that Digital Content cannot be redeemed for monetary value or equivalent, and all transactions related to Digital Content are final, with refunds issued solely at our discretion. Furthermore, we reserve the right to revoke this license at any time, without prior notice or liability, particularly in instances of account termination.
Please be advised that the acquisition of Digital Content does not give you ownership rights. Instead, you are granted a limited, non-exclusive, and non-transferable license to use the Digital Content for personal, non-commercial entertainment purposes only.
3.11 Subscription Termination by Us: As D&D Beyond continues to evolve, there might be changes to our Subscription plans, or even the continuation of certain offerings. We reserve the right to discontinue or modify any part of our Service or Subscription options at any time, in our discretion.
Did you agree to the same terms as everyone else? If so, you did not buy the functionality.
I've had absolutely no problem with it. With legacy choices on, it follows all the legacy systems through with very little thought. I've created 2014 and 2024 characters, and mix and match with the only 'glitch' being stat bonus priority mixing 2014 species with 2024 backgrounds. I'm sure there are others, but haven't encountered any function breaking that can be fixed on pencil and paper correction. So not sure what the huge issue is that people are throwing quit tantrums for.
BUT, I'm not against a disable function. It absolutely makes sense to include.
Now they've updated all my Homebrew content with confusing 2024 rules content.. and no way for me to back out their changes.
Don't need private homebrew shield with Utilize 2024 rules. Don't need by 3 year old public, approved Bardiche now having Topple that I can't remove.
Why not try to fix some of this rather than making it worse?
How this goes, as far as I've encountered in the past for other things is:
So basically, as long as they don't remove your access to the permanently purchased products, you are not entitled to force them to fix a service you don't like. However, you are entitled to cancel said service, and in the long run that's the thing that will hurt their bottom line the most.
I noticed the same thing, but thank you for wording it waaaay better than I could hope to. I'll keep buying used 5e books and move back to pen and paper. There's way I'm shelling out money for this site when it's not useful for me to use.
Please can we get this toggle. How is this so hard?
Honestly, if all DnDBeyond was, was a digital reference site, I'd still buy the official books. The character creator is nice, and I'm moving my games to 5.24 anyway, but the digital reference library is more valuable to me than even buying the PDFs. If they ever tried to take it away after our purchases (without offering the PDFs as they closed down) I'd be one of those driving a class action suit.
Until them I'm mostly ok with the new version, I just wish they'd fully support the homebrew for it.
I completely agree with all you've said. And the lack of response I feel is very telling. It just shows they really don't care about their customers. I'll still use it, at least for now, because it's very helpful for our crazy neurodivergent group. I'm still looking for good alternatives, but I've not found any as of yet. And there's always just using our physical books and paper. D&D Beyond, as useful and convenient as it was before they broke it, was always a convenience. It's not needed to run a game and we've played for years before it was even a thing.
We don't need WotC; they need us.
It looks like beyond deleted my post on this subject - apparently my direct and coarse comments hurt someone's feelings. But, hey, at least I know someone other than fellow players viewed my comments.
I just want everyone to know I share your frustration, and Beyond should just fix these problems or tell us to shut up and take it.
While the access is theoretically there, they have been broken (or at least severely reduced in functionality) because all the cross-links now go to the 2024 versions instead of the appropriate versions for the content I own, and a lot of the selling points for why we bought the content here (such as the character builder) have been ****** or in some cases outright broken.
This a severe degradation in functionality compared to what I originally paid for, and like so many others, I'm both pissed and in shock that they could mess it all up this badly. This is something we should be taking up with consumer protection agencies in each of our jurisdictions.
Cancelled my sub. When you go to cancel they try to gaslight you even more by saying all the 2014 content is still there and unchanged, which is clearly a lie, and TBH just made me angry and want to cancel even more! What an absolute joke. Wish I could refund all the content I own here.
Yup
HUZZAH !!!!!
It would be one thing if they said, "yeah, yeah, we know, we know - very sorry - we're working on it as fast as we can. Please be patient."
But instead, they're saying: "these aren't the droid's you're looking for."
The emperor is buck naked - he's not wearing clothes at all, no matter what they say.
This is their program - they know precisely what is wrong with it!
Be ashamed, Beyond.
As mentioned above, 'functionality' is not what you paid for. The book is unchanged, in that it still contains the complete text you paid for. If you don't like the *functionality* of the site, you can stop subscribing and use it purely as a digitial copy of a paper book.
It just shows they don't care about us customers. They clearly don't know what customer service is. It's just about forcing their new stuff upon us. But they will never do this. There are several year old content from books they said they would add, but never did. Considering the changes they made to backgrounds, I highly doubt they even play the game. And if they do, it's the most basic characters. The quick build character you see in the books
I had a character that when I level up, didn't get the selected spell. Then when I tried to pick again, it completely bugged out and I couldn't enter the character in the app
Absolutely untrue. When I bought these on D&DBeyond it was specifically with the understanding that they would be functional in this way. The pages where they are purchased even mention their searchability and the helpful online functionality. So yes, functionality IS part of what I paid for.
Perringaiden - I absolutely paid for "functionality." How can you presume to know what I paid for? I assume you love the new rules and the fact that they bleed into the legacy framework. Well good for you. But try to use your imagination. Imagine that you hated the new rules, but you felt comfortable because you were told they would not interfere with your chosen play style and preferred rules, but then you found out it was a lie? Since you don't agree with the vast majority of us in our concerns, why don't you join some other thread? You aren't convincing anyone...maybe you do represent management/ownership? That's the only reason i can conceive of that causes you to continue to "chime in." Anyway, may you live a thousand years.
The only way I see there is a chance for them to add this, is if it reaches the same level of backlash as they di with the OGL chances they tried to make
There's not a secret "Buy this book and guarantee functionality". That's how I know.
You pay for the functionality of the website through a subscription. If you don't like the functionality, you stop paying. That's how the contract works. You bought the text of the book, in a digital format, which allows you unlimited access to the text of the book. They give you 'free' access to the searchable lists and you pay subscriptions to get additional functionality. According to the agreement you signed by purchasing the book, you aren't guaranteed anything more than a digital copy of the text and included images.
I only represent me, but I also read things like access rights, and terms and conditions.
Did you agree to the same terms as everyone else? If so, you did not buy the functionality.
I've had absolutely no problem with it. With legacy choices on, it follows all the legacy systems through with very little thought. I've created 2014 and 2024 characters, and mix and match with the only 'glitch' being stat bonus priority mixing 2014 species with 2024 backgrounds. I'm sure there are others, but haven't encountered any function breaking that can be fixed on pencil and paper correction. So not sure what the huge issue is that people are throwing quit tantrums for.
BUT, I'm not against a disable function. It absolutely makes sense to include.