If you check the marketplace page for each book it very clearly states that you are buying content for the character builder/maps/encounters etc, along with the digital book (I.e. compendium) content. The ToS just means you can't sue them for changing/removing content (and even then ToS's don't always hold up in court, particularly in the EU, although I have no knowledge or interest in how enforceable this one would be). It in no way makes it right, expected, or good customer service to make these sorts of changes.
The worst part is the lack of communication though. We don't actually know if any of the issues with the rollout are intentional, or which are actually planned to be fixed. The last official messaging we've had (after they changed their mind on overwriting spells) was that both rulesets will be supported. The problem is that since then there's been no official posts, the community managers seem to have disappeared, and customer service seems to have a 4-6 week turnaround. The only contact we have is the discord mods, but all they can do is pass comments on to DDB, theyre not able to get answers from them either. If the 2014 ruleset is still supported as promised, then it's entirely reasonable to ask that filters to be added to support 2014-only games.
So we don't know if they're deliberately trying to force people to switch, and are just ignoring customers until we switch or leave, or whether they're just too incompetent (or too cheap to properly resource the dev team) to implement the 2 rulesets properly, and are ignoring us until they catch up or people leave.
They need to come clean and tell us "we are fixing x, plan to fix y, but will not be fixing z as we deem it outdated/too difficult/too expensive".
Judging from recent half-baked releases however it seems their strategy is to just churn out semi-complete content the rush on to the next rather than fix any bugs. From what I've seen all the recent releases (PHB, DMG, LOTR and Illrigger) have multiple features either not working properly or just not implemented at all, and no communication on if/when they'll be fixed.
If you check the marketplace page for each book it very clearly states that you are buying content for the character builder/maps/encounters etc
Actually, the marketplace specifically says: "Purchasing a digital copy of this book unlocks it for use in the D&D BEYOND compendium and toolset."
While you might "feel" like you're buying that for that reason, what you're buying is the digital book. Owning the book unlocks that book's elements in the creator, but you're not buying the content "for the creator". It's just unlocking the elements in the book to allow you to use them in the creator. Which you still can, they haven't taken that away.
The thread is specifically complaining that the creator doesn't do something that they want it to do, and they paid for it. Which they never did. The Character Creator is free, and completely controlled by D&D Beyond. You buy the book. Owning the book allows you to use that content in the creator. It does not give you any control over the functionality of the creator.
To be clear, I would like them to better differentiate 2014 vs 2024. But the argument "But I paid for it" is going to be completely ignored because it's fundamentally wrong to their laywers.
If you check the marketplace page for each book it very clearly states that you are buying content for the character builder/maps/encounters etc
Actually, the marketplace specifically says: "Purchasing a digital copy of this book unlocks it for use in the D&D BEYOND compendium and toolset."
While you might "feel" like you're buying that for that reason, what you're buying is the digital book. Owning the book unlocks that book's elements in the creator, but you're not buying the content "for the creator". It's just unlocking the elements in the book to allow you to use them in the creator. Which you still can, they haven't taken that away.
The thread is specifically complaining that the creator doesn't do something that they want it to do, and they paid for it. Which they never did. The Character Creator is free, and completely controlled by D&D Beyond. You buy the book. Owning the book allows you to use that content in the creator. It does not give you any control over the functionality of the creator.
To be clear, I would like them to better differentiate 2014 vs 2024. But the argument "But I paid for it" is going to be completely ignored because it's fundamentally wrong to their laywers.
“For use in the toolset” is the primary reason most people purchased the content in the first place.
If just buying the content was for reference only, then a lot of people wouldn’t have joined the platform.
I can web surf and find a majority of the “compendium” material for free, and if needed do the job of the developer and use the homebrew tools to enter the material.( which is what has happened, because for whatever reason, the people that was entering the content that could be used in the toolset are no longer doing so. )
The material and content that was previously available is still there, but it’s getting replaced by the newer version, and a good portion of the userbase has repeatedly asked since the beginning of the changes for a toggle that can separate 2024 from 2014.
What we are getting is the ability to only turn off 2014 material, and not the ability to have 2024 content completely separate from 2014-23/24 material.
Some just want 2024 only, some just want 2014 only, and some want to see a editionX only toggle set that brings the toolset up to par with other competitors. When I had bought the materials from this site in the past, it was for the character building and homebrew toolset, not to just have a digital version of a book that I would have to personally enter into the system, if possible, or to have to be able to be readily access through a digital device. ( PDF’s and free software that can display them have long existed, and are just as easily accessible and attainable. )
I’m on here for the tools, the material and content are just prebuilt templates for expansion. If the new norm is that the user is now expected to do the job of the developer in entering the content from the material they( the company) have created, when previously the company had developers that where paid to do that task and that was a price users were willing to pay for the ease of.
If they, the company and the site devs, had simply decided to have a 2024 rules toggle or a separate system just for 2024, leaving the 2014+ materials as is for a time, then the whole mess of the switchover would not have happened, and people wouldn’t be almost demanding a way to separate the two.
TL;DBR I purchase material for use in the builder and tools, not for it to look pretty and not serve any useful function in those toolsets.
Make a toggle that turns off 2024 rules and materials, and allows for a 2014+ only system.
I don't disagree with the premise of a toggle. I've said as much many times.
My point is that repeating "But i paid for it" undermines the argument the rest of us are making. What you made you choose to buy the digital books doesn't matter to what you bought. The argument people should be making is "If you don't fix this, I will take my future purchases elsewhere". Your existing ones entitled you to the books. Hasbro only cares about future purchases though, so they're unlikely to want to encourage people to stay with 2014. Which is why it is far better to either threaten to go elsewhere, or actually go elsewhere.
If they have the law on their site, then yeah. The only thing people can do, is what they did when they tried to change the OGL in 2023. Have them lose money
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One of my groups just built new characters for a new campaign yesterday (the first since the 2024 content has been added to the site) and it's an absolute nightmare. I haven't paid for the 2024 content, yet it completely floods everything with no way to properly filter it out without having to manually select all of the content I DO own (which is a LOT) and we had several people at the table struggling to wade through the confusing duplicates and legacy tags.
What used to be one of the most user friendly and newbie friendly ways to learn d&d (for our group and the 4+ tables we've taught to play using dndbeyond) is now a sloppy cluster of mixed up content that we can't turn off. Every other type of content has a filter to disable and every other type of free content has been optional. 2024 rules have no way to be turned off and the free content was added to my account regardless of whether or not we wanted to use it. It's infuriating to have so much money in content here and to have several tables used to using this site only for it to be a nearly unusable mess.
As our groups begin to wrap campaigns, I hope we can start switching back to pen and paper sheets as a group unless dndbeyond actually begins to pay attention to what their users actually want.
And by the looks of things, my suspicion is that 2014 content is getting wiped out of the toolset. And the only reason they stopped was because of the threat of another walkoff.
People are still willing to give them one more chance, now will Beyond and WotC listen?
Or, do people really do have to begin walking off for the company to understand all that the users want is to continue to use the “digital” toolset content they legally purchased, and the company had agreed to allow use of said content till such time as the company deemed it necessary to inform users that the purchased content would no longer be available.
( not too sure about you, but I discovered the switch only by keeping an eye on the forums. No emails, no announcements, no idea till one day, holy cow. )
To address some of the points:
They cannot legally remove the digital books from the website without announcing it and providing PDFs to download before it goes. There's a provision about legal backup copies.
Hasbro doesn't want to sell 2014 stuff, and wants everyone to move to 2024. That's inevitable and for the most part, it seems like the majority of groups intend to "in the future". So they're not producing more 2014 books etc.
Walking off is likely the only way to make them take notice, in terms of cancelling subscriptions even if you keep using the service. Subscribers are what count to them.
Regarding the 2014 Core Rules button that turned up, it was posted in the Changelog in November. Everything is in the changelog. It's always posted in the changelog, and that's what people need to pay attention to. Its the button next to Notifications.
The way Beyond was marketed and the tos are at odds, people forget marketing is a type of agreement. Wizbro is banking on their size letting this fly under the radar, people only need to stop buying stuff or lawyer up to effect change. Complaining and arguing on this site does nothing.
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CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
Let's keep things on topic here. Like how much we all agree there needs to be a toggle to turn off the 2024 content in builder. Don't detract from the main topic of the toggle by trying to add in other factors that aren't involved with the toggle. The toggle is what we want and need to hide the duplicate information for character builders and campaigns.
Agreed - I'm on the verge of swapping to pen and paper trying to build characters for a one-shot. I don't have access to all of my 2014 shared content even when trying to build from scratch. Please let us disable 2024 content and actually access the content we've already paid for.
Agreed - I'm on the verge of swapping to pen and paper trying to build characters for a one-shot. I don't have access to all of my 2014 shared content even when trying to build from scratch. Please let us disable 2024 content and actually access the content we've already paid for.
You can access all the 2014 content.
Since it's shared with you, are you making characters in the campaign where it's being shared?
Let's keep things on topic here. Like how much we all agree there needs to be a toggle to turn off the 2024 content in builder. Don't detract from the main topic of the toggle by trying to add in other factors that aren't involved with the toggle. The toggle is what we want and need to hide the duplicate information for character builders and campaigns.
That is true, no more true than unless the toggle comes we need to bounce from the farce it will ever come. Marketing matters and it is a binding agreement!
I'd like to cast my vote for a "Disable 2024." I bought the bundle/physical of the 2024 books, so I do plan to use them.
However, I want to wrap up all of my current games using only the 2014 rules, since quite a few of the spells and feats, and even classes are different in the 2024 set.
So for example, I am having a player change his character (new race & class) in my campaign - and he didn't realize it, but he made a 2024 version.
So I had to tell him to delete it, scroll down when selecting the class and select the 2014 version - and to make sure not to pick any spells or feats that are 2024.
So being able to disable the 2024 would be ideal. I'd hoped this would be "selectable" when I got into this. As others have said, the ability to disable it would be greatly beneficial.
Again, I do plan on using 2024 - but I'd like to wrap up all of my 2014 games first, before cutting over so that everything is on the same playing level.
ToS is one thing. The law is another. Have in mind, some of the laws in Europe are different than the onces in America. We are more protected in Europe. I think it's because of European laws, that has done. so when you buy game, you are buying a license to the game. Not the game
While you're allowed to make some backup copies for safety, you'renot permitted to copyanything beyond that.
We're also allowed to make backups of the digital book we purchased, but that doesn't extend to the functionality that's implicit in our intentions when purchasing, but not explicitly licensed to us.
Hey, it looks like they let me back on here! Don't worry, I'm sure I will transgress again, and be banished...again.
Most on this thread have been trumpeting support for the original sentiment - others have been disagreeing with us. The name of the thread is: I really need a "disable 2024 completely" button for a campaign or character. Simple statement. For? Or against? It seems like there would be no need for four long paragraphs in your response. Rather, just say Hazzah! or, I don't need or want a button. And be done with it.
But since extraneous rhetoric is the de rigueur, I will mention that technically AND in spirit, Wizards is not doing anything wrong (other than creating a new edition as a money grab that was not needed and moved the smoothness of the rules backward) It is is Beyond that dropped the ball. I'm fine with Wizards running out Edition 9 four years from now. Edition your little hearts out - so long as 2014 edition is still usable on Beyond.
There are some...a..."users" who persist that 2014 is perfectly fine on beyond - it is only our stupidity that prevents us from using it. But then they say a button is a good idea. Hmmm.
Does anyone have suggestions for a non-DND Beyond character building tool? I can manually create a character sheet, but DNDB's automation has historically been more convenient - up until about 4 months ago.
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Still hoping for that toggle. Would be even more useful since they keep altering the linked rules and I don't use the 5.5e rules.
It is Christmas season. But I highly doubt they will change it
If you check the marketplace page for each book it very clearly states that you are buying content for the character builder/maps/encounters etc, along with the digital book (I.e. compendium) content. The ToS just means you can't sue them for changing/removing content (and even then ToS's don't always hold up in court, particularly in the EU, although I have no knowledge or interest in how enforceable this one would be). It in no way makes it right, expected, or good customer service to make these sorts of changes.
The worst part is the lack of communication though. We don't actually know if any of the issues with the rollout are intentional, or which are actually planned to be fixed. The last official messaging we've had (after they changed their mind on overwriting spells) was that both rulesets will be supported. The problem is that since then there's been no official posts, the community managers seem to have disappeared, and customer service seems to have a 4-6 week turnaround. The only contact we have is the discord mods, but all they can do is pass comments on to DDB, theyre not able to get answers from them either. If the 2014 ruleset is still supported as promised, then it's entirely reasonable to ask that filters to be added to support 2014-only games.
So we don't know if they're deliberately trying to force people to switch, and are just ignoring customers until we switch or leave, or whether they're just too incompetent (or too cheap to properly resource the dev team) to implement the 2 rulesets properly, and are ignoring us until they catch up or people leave.
They need to come clean and tell us "we are fixing x, plan to fix y, but will not be fixing z as we deem it outdated/too difficult/too expensive".
Judging from recent half-baked releases however it seems their strategy is to just churn out semi-complete content the rush on to the next rather than fix any bugs. From what I've seen all the recent releases (PHB, DMG, LOTR and Illrigger) have multiple features either not working properly or just not implemented at all, and no communication on if/when they'll be fixed.
Actually, the marketplace specifically says: "Purchasing a digital copy of this book unlocks it for use in the D&D BEYOND compendium and toolset."
While you might "feel" like you're buying that for that reason, what you're buying is the digital book. Owning the book unlocks that book's elements in the creator, but you're not buying the content "for the creator". It's just unlocking the elements in the book to allow you to use them in the creator. Which you still can, they haven't taken that away.
The thread is specifically complaining that the creator doesn't do something that they want it to do, and they paid for it. Which they never did. The Character Creator is free, and completely controlled by D&D Beyond. You buy the book. Owning the book allows you to use that content in the creator. It does not give you any control over the functionality of the creator.
To be clear, I would like them to better differentiate 2014 vs 2024. But the argument "But I paid for it" is going to be completely ignored because it's fundamentally wrong to their laywers.
I don't disagree with the premise of a toggle. I've said as much many times.
My point is that repeating "But i paid for it" undermines the argument the rest of us are making. What you made you choose to buy the digital books doesn't matter to what you bought. The argument people should be making is "If you don't fix this, I will take my future purchases elsewhere". Your existing ones entitled you to the books. Hasbro only cares about future purchases though, so they're unlikely to want to encourage people to stay with 2014. Which is why it is far better to either threaten to go elsewhere, or actually go elsewhere.
If they have the law on their site, then yeah. The only thing people can do, is what they did when they tried to change the OGL in 2023. Have them lose money
One of my groups just built new characters for a new campaign yesterday (the first since the 2024 content has been added to the site) and it's an absolute nightmare. I haven't paid for the 2024 content, yet it completely floods everything with no way to properly filter it out without having to manually select all of the content I DO own (which is a LOT) and we had several people at the table struggling to wade through the confusing duplicates and legacy tags.
What used to be one of the most user friendly and newbie friendly ways to learn d&d (for our group and the 4+ tables we've taught to play using dndbeyond) is now a sloppy cluster of mixed up content that we can't turn off. Every other type of content has a filter to disable and every other type of free content has been optional. 2024 rules have no way to be turned off and the free content was added to my account regardless of whether or not we wanted to use it. It's infuriating to have so much money in content here and to have several tables used to using this site only for it to be a nearly unusable mess.
As our groups begin to wrap campaigns, I hope we can start switching back to pen and paper sheets as a group unless dndbeyond actually begins to pay attention to what their users actually want.
To address some of the points:
The way Beyond was marketed and the tos are at odds, people forget marketing is a type of agreement. Wizbro is banking on their size letting this fly under the radar, people only need to stop buying stuff or lawyer up to effect change. Complaining and arguing on this site does nothing.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
Let's keep things on topic here. Like how much we all agree there needs to be a toggle to turn off the 2024 content in builder. Don't detract from the main topic of the toggle by trying to add in other factors that aren't involved with the toggle. The toggle is what we want and need to hide the duplicate information for character builders and campaigns.
Agreed - I'm on the verge of swapping to pen and paper trying to build characters for a one-shot. I don't have access to all of my 2014 shared content even when trying to build from scratch. Please let us disable 2024 content and actually access the content we've already paid for.
You can access all the 2014 content.
Since it's shared with you, are you making characters in the campaign where it's being shared?
Are your entitlements synced?
Are all the toggles in the character builder on?
Are you using the 2014 classes?
That is true, no more true than unless the toggle comes we need to bounce from the farce it will ever come. Marketing matters and it is a binding agreement!
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
I'd like to cast my vote for a "Disable 2024." I bought the bundle/physical of the 2024 books, so I do plan to use them.
However, I want to wrap up all of my current games using only the 2014 rules, since quite a few of the spells and feats, and even classes are different in the 2024 set.
So for example, I am having a player change his character (new race & class) in my campaign - and he didn't realize it, but he made a 2024 version.
So I had to tell him to delete it, scroll down when selecting the class and select the 2014 version - and to make sure not to pick any spells or feats that are 2024.
So being able to disable the 2024 would be ideal. I'd hoped this would be "selectable" when I got into this. As others have said, the ability to disable it would be greatly beneficial.
Again, I do plan on using 2024 - but I'd like to wrap up all of my 2014 games first, before cutting over so that everything is on the same playing level.
Thanks for your time and hopeful consideration.
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ToS is one thing. The law is another. Have in mind, some of the laws in Europe are different than the onces in America. We are more protected in Europe. I think it's because of European laws, that has done. so when you buy game, you are buying a license to the game. Not the game
We're also allowed to make backups of the digital book we purchased, but that doesn't extend to the functionality that's implicit in our intentions when purchasing, but not explicitly licensed to us.
Hey, it looks like they let me back on here! Don't worry, I'm sure I will transgress again, and be banished...again.
Most on this thread have been trumpeting support for the original sentiment - others have been disagreeing with us. The name of the thread is: I really need a "disable 2024 completely" button for a campaign or character. Simple statement. For? Or against? It seems like there would be no need for four long paragraphs in your response. Rather, just say Hazzah! or, I don't need or want a button. And be done with it.
But since extraneous rhetoric is the de rigueur, I will mention that technically AND in spirit, Wizards is not doing anything wrong (other than creating a new edition as a money grab that was not needed and moved the smoothness of the rules backward) It is is Beyond that dropped the ball. I'm fine with Wizards running out Edition 9 four years from now. Edition your little hearts out - so long as 2014 edition is still usable on Beyond.
There are some...a..."users" who persist that 2014 is perfectly fine on beyond - it is only our stupidity that prevents us from using it. But then they say a button is a good idea. Hmmm.
Oh, yeah - go ahead and banish me for accusing other posters of calling me stupid. Or calling wizards money grabbing.
Does anyone have suggestions for a non-DND Beyond character building tool? I can manually create a character sheet, but DNDB's automation has historically been more convenient - up until about 4 months ago.