Demiliches should not be CR 18

Just noticed something weird about demiliches :

A single lvl 5 sorcerer can defeat one, using no weird gimmicks or feat / multiclass. If it dashes and uses legendary action, it can move a maximum of 75 feet per round.
If the sorcerer casts extended haste on itself and uses its haste action to just run away, it can easily out pace the demilich.

Not only that, but none of the lich’s abilities have a range further then 30 feet, so even if he did almost catch up, nothing would happen.

From there the player can just cast strength / dex / con save spells against it, since it only has a -5 / +5 / +6 to those, respectively.

Some great options would be Arms of Hadar and Maxiliman’s earthen grasp, but regular old fireball also gets the job done, since it only has 80 HP and no resistance to elemental damage.

Have fun grinding them!

 And what tomb would be designed in such a way that would allow this to happen?

A few things to consider:

• It is very unlikely you will encounter a demilich in a wide open space that would allow for such running around.  They are the remnants of liches, and would likely be found in tombs, ruins, or lairs, all of which would generally be on the smaller side.  It also just looks like a skull, so it is highly possible to get close to it before realizing it...in fact it doesn't even activate until it is disturbed, at least per the MM entry
• It has the avoidance trait, which means any of those save spells you mention that have save for half damage rules, it's either taking half damage or no damage.  it also has 3 uses of legendary resistance to spend.
• The specific spells you mention are worse than useless against the thing
  • Arms of Hadar erupt from you, which means you have to be no more than 10 feet away from the lich to damage it.  Also, see avoidance trait
  • Maxilmilian's earthen grasp erupts from the ground and is medium size...the demilich flies, so ten feet in the air negates it entirely.  However if for some reason the demilich is close enough to be grabbed this would be a decent spell to use.
  • Fireball...see avoidance
• Now, if you do happen to get close to it, possibly because it just looks like a skull or is hidden, or it used it's DC 19 Dex save or fall prone lair action first thing, its howl is either going to drop you outright, or up to three of you are going to be hit with its life drain attack.  Then it will exhaust its legendary actions to blind, further harm, or curse you.
• Also, your non-spellcasters are going to have trouble with it, since it has 20 AC, resists damage from magical weapons and is immune to non-magical weapons, and it does carry a number of condition and damage immunities that ward off other spells.  It also has ridiculous save bonuses against 3 types of save, decent save bonuses against 2, and the one it has a crappy save against is a fairly rare type of spell save.

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 And what tomb would be designed in such a way that would allow this to happen?

 A dual wielding Level 15 Paladin solo that wins initiative one shots the demi-lich doing 92 hit points damage with at least a 50% chance to hit.

Its the standard problem of of CR balancing at higher levels. Its almost like the game designers didn't play a lot of the monsters in a fight with a an average party before publishing.  Its a CR 10 monster as designed, not CR 18.  If they move the Demi-liches hitpoints into the mid 200's its a CR18.  The monster doesn't have the hit points to stay alive long enough to use its abilities.

 Is that 92 damage after resistances?  because if your paladin is doing the 184 damage with a magic weapon required to achieve that damage total, that pretty impressive.  If either dual wielded weapon is non-magical, then that damage is negated because the demilich is immune.

Also, your stance assumes the paladin 1) wins initiative, 2) started combat close enough to the demilich to reach it without dashing, and 3) hits all its attacks (against AC 20).  It also assumes that the paladin had a initiative >20 as otherwise it will have to deal with one of a number of nasty lair actions first, including the personal antimagic field which would effectively reduce that paladin's first turn damage to a big ol' zero. (since its weapons would be non-magical and it's spells wouldn't work)

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 And what tomb would be designed in such a way that would allow this to happen?

 A dual wielding Level 15 Paladin solo that wins initiative one shots the demi-lich doing 92 hit points damage with at least a 50% chance to hit.

Its the standard problem of of CR balancing at higher levels. Its almost like the game designers didn't play a lot of the monsters in a fight with a an average party before publishing.  Its a CR 10 monster as designed, not CR 18.  If they move the Demi-liches hitpoints into the mid 200's its a CR18.  The monster doesn't have the hit points to stay alive long enough to use its abilities.

 Is that 92 damage after resistances?  because if your paladin is doing the 184 damage with a magic weapon required to achieve that damage total, that pretty impressive.  If either dual wielded weapon is non-magical, then that damage is negated because the demilich is immune.

Also, your stance assumes the paladin 1) wins initiative, 2) started combat close enough to the demilich to reach it without dashing, and 3) hits all its attacks (against AC 20).  It also assumes that the paladin had a initiative >20 as otherwise it will have to deal with one of a number of nasty lair actions first, including the personal antimagic field which would effectively reduce that paladin's first turn damage to a big ol' zero. (since its weapons would be non-magical and it's spells wouldn't work)

 A level 15 paladin will have two magic weapons and should have at least a +10 to hit at 15, if they are playing vengeance, as a bonus action they now have advantage on hits meaning they have a +14.25 to hit.  The majority of the damage is coming from smites.  He can do two level 4 smites 5d8 + 1d8 (undead) + 1d8 (class feature) so 7d8 X 2 and a 6d8 for a level 3 smite = 80 hp smit damage alone ignoring weapon damage.

The Demilich doesn't have the hit points to be a CR 18 let alone the hit points to use its lair actions, it needs to be in the mid 200's to be a CR 18.

 Excepts they won't do that, because a paladin will never have enough initiative to beat lair actions.

So the lich triggers antimagic, they lose their magical weapons and smiting, including the base damage provided by improved divine smite. Then you get nothing, because their weapons are non-magical, and your ****ed.

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 And what tomb would be designed in such a way that would allow this to happen?

 A dual wielding Level 15 Paladin solo that wins initiative one shots the demi-lich doing 92 hit points damage with at least a 50% chance to hit.

Its the standard problem of of CR balancing at higher levels. Its almost like the game designers didn't play a lot of the monsters in a fight with a an average party before publishing.  Its a CR 10 monster as designed, not CR 18.  If they move the Demi-liches hitpoints into the mid 200's its a CR18.  The monster doesn't have the hit points to stay alive long enough to use its abilities.

 Is that 92 damage after resistances?  because if your paladin is doing the 184 damage with a magic weapon required to achieve that damage total, that pretty impressive.  If either dual wielded weapon is non-magical, then that damage is negated because the demilich is immune.

Also, your stance assumes the paladin 1) wins initiative, 2) started combat close enough to the demilich to reach it without dashing, and 3) hits all its attacks (against AC 20).  It also assumes that the paladin had a initiative >20 as otherwise it will have to deal with one of a number of nasty lair actions first, including the personal antimagic field which would effectively reduce that paladin's first turn damage to a big ol' zero. (since its weapons would be non-magical and it's spells wouldn't work)

 A level 15 paladin will have two magic weapons and should have at least a +10 to hit at 15, if they are playing vengeance, as a bonus action they now have advantage on hits meaning they have a +14.25 to hit.  The majority of the damage is coming from smites.  He can do two level 4 smites 5d8 + 1d8 (undead) + 1d8 (class feature) so 7d8 X 2 and a 6d8 for a level 3 smite = 80 hp smit damage alone ignoring weapon damage.

The Demilich doesn't have the hit points to be a CR 18 let alone the hit points to use its lair actions, it needs to be in the mid 200's to be a CR 18.

 Excepts they won't do that, because a paladin will never have enough initiative to beat lair actions.

So the lich triggers antimagic, they lose their magical weapons and smiting, including the base damage provided by improved divine smite. Then you get nothing, because their weapons are non-magical, and your ****ed.

 On the 50:50 chance that itnsctually gets to use a lair action that turn, and targets the Paladin with with antimagic field and not another character or uses a different lair action? And since antimagic field doesn't affect effects provided by deities, which Divine Smite is, then Divine Smite works fine.

I'm not jumping in with too much with the CR things since I don't have much experience, but I think you're giving too much weight to the lair actions making it fine. And if it's in its lair it's CR20, not CR18, so, honestly now, do you think that it would provide a deadly encounter to 4 L19 characters? 4 L19 Paladins? Because that's what a CR20 creature does, to my understanding.

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 And what tomb would be designed in such a way that would allow this to happen?

 A dual wielding Level 15 Paladin solo that wins initiative one shots the demi-lich doing 92 hit points damage with at least a 50% chance to hit.

Its the standard problem of of CR balancing at higher levels. Its almost like the game designers didn't play a lot of the monsters in a fight with a an average party before publishing.  Its a CR 10 monster as designed, not CR 18.  If they move the Demi-liches hitpoints into the mid 200's its a CR18.  The monster doesn't have the hit points to stay alive long enough to use its abilities.

 Is that 92 damage after resistances?  because if your paladin is doing the 184 damage with a magic weapon required to achieve that damage total, that pretty impressive.  If either dual wielded weapon is non-magical, then that damage is negated because the demilich is immune.

Also, your stance assumes the paladin 1) wins initiative, 2) started combat close enough to the demilich to reach it without dashing, and 3) hits all its attacks (against AC 20).  It also assumes that the paladin had a initiative >20 as otherwise it will have to deal with one of a number of nasty lair actions first, including the personal antimagic field which would effectively reduce that paladin's first turn damage to a big ol' zero. (since its weapons would be non-magical and it's spells wouldn't work)

 A level 15 paladin will have two magic weapons and should have at least a +10 to hit at 15, if they are playing vengeance, as a bonus action they now have advantage on hits meaning they have a +14.25 to hit.  The majority of the damage is coming from smites.  He can do two level 4 smites 5d8 + 1d8 (undead) + 1d8 (class feature) so 7d8 X 2 and a 6d8 for a level 3 smite = 80 hp smit damage alone ignoring weapon damage.

The Demilich doesn't have the hit points to be a CR 18 let alone the hit points to use its lair actions, it needs to be in the mid 200's to be a CR 18.

 Excepts they won't do that, because a paladin will never have enough initiative to beat lair actions.

So the lich triggers antimagic, they lose their magical weapons and smiting, including the base damage provided by improved divine smite. Then you get nothing, because their weapons are non-magical, and your ****ed.

 The improved divine smite does not get negated by anti-magic field.  You obviously are very invested in the DemiLich being a CR 18, so congratulations to make you feel better I'll write its a CR 18.  Everyone who read the basic stats I wrote, ignore it.  The Demilich is a true CR 18, we all know it, it has been said.

I mean, even with that mistake, that’s still only 3d8 damage, assuming every attack hits.

It's effective hp is about 300 it just so happens that paladins have damage specifically designed to take down undead and that doesnt trigger it's resistances and immunities. Also if the dm wanted to really be a dick technically the demi lich can just use its legendary actions to completely move out of range of the paladin when they come close as a legendary action ignoring initiative.  A paladin is not smiting this thing on the first round or potentially ever unless the dm ****s up or the party finds a way to help the paladin do it. 

Cr is really not designed around the idea of counter play  but instead generally about the health, damage and resistances. The way the demilich works is its hard to kill because it's so hard to hit, has so many resistances/immunites, is able to heal itself and flies. It's offense is its main weakness but the longer its around the more likely that howl is to hit which it can move 75ft and still use.  I'd be careful about bumping it's health because of those defences each hp point goes further than it would normally for example 200 hp as you suggest puts it's defenses on par with cr 28 monsters and gives it about 700 effective hp based on online calculators.

What I will say is the Cr seems to be calculated to basically ignore its offensive abilities likely because it does have that chance of an instant kill and it in my opinion does not have the offences to justify CR 18. it's defense is appropriate for cr 18 but doesn't exceed it like you might expect for such and offensively mediocre monster.  

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 And what tomb would be designed in such a way that would allow this to happen?

 A dual wielding Level 15 Paladin solo that wins initiative one shots the demi-lich doing 92 hit points damage with at least a 50% chance to hit.

Its the standard problem of of CR balancing at higher levels. Its almost like the game designers didn't play a lot of the monsters in a fight with a an average party before publishing.  Its a CR 10 monster as designed, not CR 18.  If they move the Demi-liches hitpoints into the mid 200's its a CR18.  The monster doesn't have the hit points to stay alive long enough to use its abilities.

 Is that 92 damage after resistances?  because if your paladin is doing the 184 damage with a magic weapon required to achieve that damage total, that pretty impressive.  If either dual wielded weapon is non-magical, then that damage is negated because the demilich is immune.

Also, your stance assumes the paladin 1) wins initiative, 2) started combat close enough to the demilich to reach it without dashing, and 3) hits all its attacks (against AC 20).  It also assumes that the paladin had a initiative >20 as otherwise it will have to deal with one of a number of nasty lair actions first, including the personal antimagic field which would effectively reduce that paladin's first turn damage to a big ol' zero. (since its weapons would be non-magical and it's spells wouldn't work)

 A level 15 paladin will have two magic weapons and should have at least a +10 to hit at 15, if they are playing vengeance, as a bonus action they now have advantage on hits meaning they have a +14.25 to hit.  The majority of the damage is coming from smites.  He can do two level 4 smites 5d8 + 1d8 (undead) + 1d8 (class feature) so 7d8 X 2 and a 6d8 for a level 3 smite = 80 hp smit damage alone ignoring weapon damage.

The Demilich doesn't have the hit points to be a CR 18 let alone the hit points to use its lair actions, it needs to be in the mid 200's to be a CR 18.

big assumption that any PC would have two magic weapons, for one, but lets play this out.  Lets say the Paladin wins initiative with a 20 or higher (so it avoids the lair actions) and is close enough to approach the demi-lich in melee range without having to dash (which is a fairly tall order when all combined).

Vengeance Paladin, level 15 would have two attacks with advantage (using it's bonus action to gain the advantage with Vow of Enmity) and +10 to hit.  Assuming that both attacks hit against AC 20 (which is admittedly likely as both rolls would have to be 9 or lower), that is 2(weapon damage + 7d8 + mod).  assuming d8 weapons, that is 16d8 +10.  The demilich will resist 2d8+10 of the damage (reducing the damage to avg 9) and take 14d8 direct for a total of 56 +9 or 65 damage...so not dead.

Taking the advantage away to add the offhand attack severely reduces the chance of a hit (statistically, at least one of the attacks will miss since each attack is a 50/50 chance) but adds the additional 3rd level smite.  So if all three attacks hit (statistically unlikely), you could then one shot the demi-lich.  But again, that first assumes every attack hits, and you meet the preliminary criteria.

Ultimately, one class whose whole point is nova damage shouldn't be dictating the CR of creatures though.  There is no guarantee that a party would have that class present.

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 And what tomb would be designed in such a way that would allow this to happen?

 A dual wielding Level 15 Paladin solo that wins initiative one shots the demi-lich doing 92 hit points damage with at least a 50% chance to hit.

Its the standard problem of of CR balancing at higher levels. Its almost like the game designers didn't play a lot of the monsters in a fight with a an average party before publishing.  Its a CR 10 monster as designed, not CR 18.  If they move the Demi-liches hitpoints into the mid 200's its a CR18.  The monster doesn't have the hit points to stay alive long enough to use its abilities.

 Is that 92 damage after resistances?  because if your paladin is doing the 184 damage with a magic weapon required to achieve that damage total, that pretty impressive.  If either dual wielded weapon is non-magical, then that damage is negated because the demilich is immune.

Also, your stance assumes the paladin 1) wins initiative, 2) started combat close enough to the demilich to reach it without dashing, and 3) hits all its attacks (against AC 20).  It also assumes that the paladin had a initiative >20 as otherwise it will have to deal with one of a number of nasty lair actions first, including the personal antimagic field which would effectively reduce that paladin's first turn damage to a big ol' zero. (since its weapons would be non-magical and it's spells wouldn't work)

 A level 15 paladin will have two magic weapons and should have at least a +10 to hit at 15, if they are playing vengeance, as a bonus action they now have advantage on hits meaning they have a +14.25 to hit.  The majority of the damage is coming from smites.  He can do two level 4 smites 5d8 + 1d8 (undead) + 1d8 (class feature) so 7d8 X 2 and a 6d8 for a level 3 smite = 80 hp smit damage alone ignoring weapon damage.

The Demilich doesn't have the hit points to be a CR 18 let alone the hit points to use its lair actions, it needs to be in the mid 200's to be a CR 18.

 Excepts they won't do that, because a paladin will never have enough initiative to beat lair actions.

So the lich triggers antimagic, they lose their magical weapons and smiting, including the base damage provided by improved divine smite. Then you get nothing, because their weapons are non-magical, and your ****ed.

 The improved divine smite does not get negated by anti-magic field.  You obviously are very invested in the DemiLich being a CR 18, so congratulations to make you feel better I'll write its a CR 18.  Everyone who read the basic stats I wrote, ignore it.  The Demilich is a true CR 18, we all know it, it has been said.

 It doesn'

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 And what tomb would be designed in such a way that would allow this to happen?

 A dual wielding Level 15 Paladin solo that wins initiative one shots the demi-lich doing 92 hit points damage with at least a 50% chance to hit.

Its the standard problem of of CR balancing at higher levels. Its almost like the game designers didn't play a lot of the monsters in a fight with a an average party before publishing.  Its a CR 10 monster as designed, not CR 18.  If they move the Demi-liches hitpoints into the mid 200's its a CR18.  The monster doesn't have the hit points to stay alive long enough to use its abilities.

 Is that 92 damage after resistances?  because if your paladin is doing the 184 damage with a magic weapon required to achieve that damage total, that pretty impressive.  If either dual wielded weapon is non-magical, then that damage is negated because the demilich is immune.

Also, your stance assumes the paladin 1) wins initiative, 2) started combat close enough to the demilich to reach it without dashing, and 3) hits all its attacks (against AC 20).  It also assumes that the paladin had a initiative >20 as otherwise it will have to deal with one of a number of nasty lair actions first, including the personal antimagic field which would effectively reduce that paladin's first turn damage to a big ol' zero. (since its weapons would be non-magical and it's spells wouldn't work)

 A level 15 paladin will have two magic weapons and should have at least a +10 to hit at 15, if they are playing vengeance, as a bonus action they now have advantage on hits meaning they have a +14.25 to hit.  The majority of the damage is coming from smites.  He can do two level 4 smites 5d8 + 1d8 (undead) + 1d8 (class feature) so 7d8 X 2 and a 6d8 for a level 3 smite = 80 hp smit damage alone ignoring weapon damage.

The Demilich doesn't have the hit points to be a CR 18 let alone the hit points to use its lair actions, it needs to be in the mid 200's to be a CR 18.

 Excepts they won't do that, because a paladin will never have enough initiative to beat lair actions.

So the lich triggers antimagic, they lose their magical weapons and smiting, including the base damage provided by improved divine smite. Then you get nothing, because their weapons are non-magical, and your ****ed.

 The improved divine smite does not get negated by anti-magic field.  You obviously are very invested in the DemiLich being a CR 18, so congratulations to make you feel better I'll write its a CR 18.  Everyone who read the basic stats I wrote, ignore it.  The Demilich is a true CR 18, we all know it, it has been said.

 

I mean, even with that mistake, that’s still only 3d8 damage, assuming every attack hits.

 At level 11, paladins get improved divine smite so they add an extra 1d8 radiant.  Smites on undead add an extra 1d8.  Smite base damage is 2d8 + 1d8 per spell slot over 1.  A level 15 paladin gets two level 4 spell slots so:

1d8 improved

+

1d8 undead

+

2d8 base smite

+

+3d8 level 4 slot

= 7d8 base smite or 58 hit points, they get two of them so  116 max at level 4, then add in that level 3 smite at 48, max being 168 smite damage excluding weapon, cut that in half for average its 82 damage radiant excluding weapon damage, from a single PC vs a CR 18 that has 80 hps.  The game designers didn't play test the demilich.

 Why the heck are you assuming max damage though? 7d8 is average 31 damage.  only about 1 time in 50 would you roll maximum damage.

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 And what tomb would be designed in such a way that would allow this to happen?

 A dual wielding Level 15 Paladin solo that wins initiative one shots the demi-lich doing 92 hit points damage with at least a 50% chance to hit.

Its the standard problem of of CR balancing at higher levels. Its almost like the game designers didn't play a lot of the monsters in a fight with a an average party before publishing.  Its a CR 10 monster as designed, not CR 18.  If they move the Demi-liches hitpoints into the mid 200's its a CR18.  The monster doesn't have the hit points to stay alive long enough to use its abilities.

 Is that 92 damage after resistances?  because if your paladin is doing the 184 damage with a magic weapon required to achieve that damage total, that pretty impressive.  If either dual wielded weapon is non-magical, then that damage is negated because the demilich is immune.

Also, your stance assumes the paladin 1) wins initiative, 2) started combat close enough to the demilich to reach it without dashing, and 3) hits all its attacks (against AC 20).  It also assumes that the paladin had a initiative >20 as otherwise it will have to deal with one of a number of nasty lair actions first, including the personal antimagic field which would effectively reduce that paladin's first turn damage to a big ol' zero. (since its weapons would be non-magical and it's spells wouldn't work)

 A level 15 paladin will have two magic weapons and should have at least a +10 to hit at 15, if they are playing vengeance, as a bonus action they now have advantage on hits meaning they have a +14.25 to hit.  The majority of the damage is coming from smites.  He can do two level 4 smites 5d8 + 1d8 (undead) + 1d8 (class feature) so 7d8 X 2 and a 6d8 for a level 3 smite = 80 hp smit damage alone ignoring weapon damage.

The Demilich doesn't have the hit points to be a CR 18 let alone the hit points to use its lair actions, it needs to be in the mid 200's to be a CR 18.

big assumption that any PC would have two magic weapons, for one, but lets play this out.  Lets say the Paladin wins initiative with a 20 or higher (so it avoids the lair actions) and is close enough to approach the demi-lich in melee range without having to dash (which is a fairly tall order when all combined).

Vengeance Paladin, level 15 would have two attacks with advantage (using it's bonus action to gain the advantage with Vow of Enmity) and +10 to hit.  Assuming that both attacks hit against AC 20 (which is admittedly likely as both rolls would have to be 9 or lower), that is 2(weapon damage + 7d8 + mod).  assuming d8 weapons, that is 16d8 +10.  The demilich will resist 2d8+10 of the damage (reducing the damage to avg 9) and take 14d8 direct for a total of 56 +9 or 65 damage...so not dead.

Taking the advantage away to add the offhand attack severely reduces the chance of a hit (statistically, at least one of the attacks will miss since each attack is a 50/50 chance) but adds the additional 3rd level smite.  So if all three attacks hit (statistically unlikely), you could then one shot the demi-lich.  But again, that first assumes every attack hits, and you meet the preliminary criteria.

Ultimately, one class whose whole point is nova damage shouldn't be dictating the CR of creatures though.  There is no guarantee that a party would have that class present.

 A rogue would nova the Demilich as well, they are DPS classes, they exist in the game for a reason.  You can't put a CR 18 on a mob with that little hit points.  From the DMG the Demilich has the Hit Points of a CR1 monster, you know that right?  A CR 18 is between 326 and 340 hit points.

Do you feel threatened that your game designers capabilities are questioned when they don't even follow their own guidelines?  Even factoring in magic and abilities its got 75% less hit points than it should for a CR 18.  You've run high level campaigns right, you know player DPS capabilities right?  Maybe a party of 4 level 12's as a boss encounter it might work, but 4 level 18's its a guaranteed kill most likely less than a round if that.

 A Demi-lich is practically a medium encounter for a group of 4 level 18s and a deadly encounter for level 12s...so that seems accurate to me.

And I'm not sure why you are getting so heated...I absolutely am not threatened by the fact that an official creature doesn't conform to the DMG rules.  It's not the only one by a long shot.  It seems like a decent Tier 3 boss/miniboss monster, nothing more.

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 At level 11, paladins get improved divine smite so they add an extra 1d8 radiant.  Smites on undead add an extra 1d8.  Smite base damage is 2d8 + 1d8 per spell slot over 1.  A level 15 paladin gets two level 4 spell slots so:

1d8 improved

+

1d8 undead

+

2d8 base smite

+

+3d8 level 4 slot

= 7d8 base smite or 58 hit points, they get two of them so  116 max at level 4, then add in that level 3 smite at 48, max being 168 smite damage excluding weapon, cut that in half for average its 82 damage radiant excluding weapon damage, from a single PC vs a CR 18 that has 80 hps.  The game designers didn't play test the demilich.

Finding a party without a paladin for campaign play is just about impossible.  The charisma bonus to saves makes the Paladin a required class.  I've run 3 long term 5E campaigns and at session zero they always make sure there is a paladin for saves.

Only the 1d8 from Improved Smite is non-magical; everything else doesn't work in an anti-magic field. I'm not going to address your unhinged "required paladin" tripe.

Assuming you got sneak attack a rogue would be more likely to kill it first round than a paladin but i think sneak attack would be really hard to get. It has true sight, flies and immunity to several conditions that would give advantage. If you have the optional rule where the rogue can get sneak attack by not moving then yes the demilich is in trouble, otherwise I don't think a rogue is actually going to get sneak attack.

The strength of the demilichs defense is that it blocks allot of abilities, it can avoid the melee attacks of paladin easily, sneak attacks and most spells.

I also just noticed this on the demi lich stat block:

Undead Nature. A demilich doesn’t require air, food, drink, or sleep. So great is a demilich’s will to survive that it always has the maximum number of hit points for its Hit Dice, instead of average hit points.

It has 128 hit points not 80. Its just got a weirdly designed stat block. That's about 400 effective hp if you don't have a way around it's defenses.

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I also just noticed this on the demi lich stat block:

Undead Nature. A demilich doesn’t require air, food, drink, or sleep. So great is a demilich’s will to survive that it always has the maximum number of hit points for its Hit Dice, instead of average hit points.

It has 128 hit points not 80. Its just got a weirdly designed stat block. That's about 400 effective hp if you don't have a way around it's defenses.

The stat block for Demilich states Hit Points: 80 (20d4).

80 HP makes more sense than 128 HP. Unless I'm missing something...

Below it has the undead nature feature which says it doesn't take the average but instead takes the max which is 128. It's down with it's lair actions and stuff about it's phylactery.

I find it interesting that somebody insists that a Paladin is necessary to win.

Anyway, I believe there is only one official adventure with a demilich in it (I could totally be wrong). That adventure is slated for level 10-14.

1 - If you're going to theorycraft, base it on a party which might have members that are level 14 at best.

2 - It's a tomb, you're not going to have a giant field to run around in.

3 - Admittedly, the dungeon is more geared towards lvl 8-12, 14s would have kind of a cakewalk.

4 - Be happy it is a 5e version demilich not a 1e demilich. A 1e demilich would laugh at your Paladin, tell him that he can get the first swing, then smoke him without trying hard.

Is the lore the same as 1e? because I think in 5e demi lich's are a bit different, like the mortal remains of a lich that has left its body behind or lich who has starved.  Where as in 1e, the demi lich seems more like its the soul  and still casts spells ect...

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I also just noticed this on the demi lich stat block:

Undead Nature. A demilich doesn’t require air, food, drink, or sleep. So great is a demilich’s will to survive that it always has the maximum number of hit points for its Hit Dice, instead of average hit points.

It has 128 hit points not 80. Its just got a weirdly designed stat block. That's about 400 effective hp if you don't have a way around it's defenses.

 

The stat block for Demilich states Hit Points: 80 (20d4).

80 HP makes more sense than 128 HP. Unless I'm missing something...

It's 80 (32d4) in the stat block

Quote from Portential >>

Quote from Wysperra >>

I find it interesting that somebody insists that a Paladin is necessary to win.

Anyway, I believe there is only one official adventure with a demilich in it (I could totally be wrong). That adventure is slated for level 10-14.

1 - If you're going to theorycraft, base it on a party which might have members that are level 14 at best.

2 - It's a tomb, you're not going to have a giant field to run around in.

3 - Admittedly, the dungeon is more geared towards lvl 8-12, 14s would have kind of a cakewalk.

4 - Be happy it is a 5e version demilich not a 1e demilich. A 1e demilich would laugh at your Paladin, tell him that he can get the first swing, then smoke him without trying hard.

 

A paladin is good for party formation due to the +5 to saves at higher levels, its not required to beat what is arguably a very easy mob to kill for just about any party of 4.

 I was just  stating that you sounded pretty insistent that a Paladin was a necessity.