All of their statements insulting and failed to address most of the actual core concerns from the community.
They've apologized, given more explanations + data, and removed numerous clauses that people didn't like. They don't have to address every single concern to be transparent, and it makes sense not to reveal all their inner business working, especially since what's in Open Game License 1.1 might change to due feedback in the survey.
If they had everything set in stone and were able to talk about every detail people are/were concerned about, then there would be no need for the new feedback process they're going through.
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BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explainHERE.
They had an employee finally write up an actual kinda-apology today, well past a week into the incident. They may not have to be entirely transparent with everything but I think you're giving them way too much benefit of the doubt and leeway with your assessment of their actions. There's been several content creators that showed they had dates in which to sign this new OGL, which means it cannot be considered a draft - no one has a legal document DRAFT signed with dates, that is a legally binding contract. They're only insisting it's a draft because they want to cover their butts and aft like they weren't trying to trick third party content creators into signing it in a panic because they only had a week to figure out what to do or else lose everything.
If they wanted to actually apologize I think it'd come from one of the people who made the decision that this was the way to go, not some underling that clearly understands the game and community but isn't in a position of power to have actually made these poor decisions in the first place.
There's been several content creators that showed they had dates in which to sign this new OGL, which means it cannot be considered a draft - no one has a legal document DRAFT signed with dates, that is a legally binding contract.
As has been explained numerous times in this thread and ones like it, this isn't actually correct. Even if the leaks about signing dates are accurate, then something is still considered a draft as long as Wizards is negotiating terms with people or groups like Kickstarter.
I do agree that the people who were pushing for OGL 1.1 should be the ones to apologize. But... Fans already reacted incredibly poorly to earlier articles about this, imagine how much hate the person apologizing might receive.
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BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explainHERE.
It is getting hard to post here whole conversions are now gone that had valid points. I cannot remember the titles of the now missing threads but clearly to make long conversations in threads is going to be a waste of people's time if the whole thing is deleted with in a days time we just keep going over the same stuff over and over. huh I wonder if my post count goes down each time they delete a whole topic? I just posted a whole thing on lies and such it was awesome but now I for the life of me cannot find the post and I am torn do I continue to comment on topics that are clearly going to be deleted?
People in charge are most times the ones that do not use the product it is a boys club of the elite who often get the power jobs and the creators just stay minions. So the people in charge make policy and it often is not inline with the users of said product. If they never play the game they do not care about the users their concern is with the profits and the people above them they have to please. I am sorry if this is off the topic a bit but I can not follow the threads any more they disappear in an alarming rate and a lot of comments are now gone that addressed repeating topics.
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And here I thought I was on my best behavior. BUT NO I got scolded and threatened with corner time. I guess we are not allowed to express our feelings or opinions on anything here. All hugs and kisses every body's special every one gets a ribbon that says 'Your a winner" Not here more then a week and I got naughty points twice. How many points do I get?
There's been several content creators that showed they had dates in which to sign this new OGL, which means it cannot be considered a draft - no one has a legal document DRAFT signed with dates, that is a legally binding contract.
As has been explained numerous times in this thread and ones like it, this isn't actually correct. Even if the leaks about signing dates are accurate, then something is still considered a draft as long as Wizards is negotiating terms with people or groups like Kickstarter.
I do agree that the people who were pushing for OGL 1.1 should be the ones to apologize. But... Fans already reacted incredibly poorly to earlier articles about this, imagine how much hate the person apologizing might receive.
I haven't seen any good evidence to say that it isn't accurate - and you're the first person to say so as far as I've seen, so I'm going to need some actual proof if you have it. However, your whole 'something is still considered a draft as long as Wizards is negotiating terms' thing seems to think that somehow the Kickstarter / WotC deal isn't finalized. It was. They already have their sweetheart deals with Kickstarter, that's why Kickstarter -knew- they had a lower rate than the listed 25% and were telling people that.
Kickstarter wouldn't say 'We have a lower rate' if they were still negotiating that rate, you get that right? That would be hugely stupid. It was already a done deal, ergo, they HAD signed the new OGL and they had real dates and documents backing it up - otherwise they never would have said they had fought to get a lower rate for people and had succeeded!
Like, I see literally no evidence that it was a draft. Anywhere. I see lots of evidence that it was a final version they did expect people to sign and abide by, it seems logical and obvious from basic events that we have all witnessed, so... ?
It is getting hard to post here whole conversions are now gone that had valid points. I cannot remember the titles of the now missing threads but clearly to make long conversations in threads is going to be a waste of people's time if the whole thing is deleted with in a days time we just keep going over the same stuff over and over. huh I wonder if my post count goes down each time they delete a whole topic? I just posted a whole thing on lies and such it was awesome but now I for the life of me cannot find the post and I am torn do I continue to comment on topics that are clearly going to be deleted?
People in charge are most times the ones that do not use the product it is a boys club of the elite who often get the power jobs and the creators just stay minions. So the people in charge make policy and it often is not inline with the users of said product. If they never play the game they do not care about the users their concern is with the profits and the people above them they have to please. I am sorry if this is off the topic a bit but I can not follow the threads any more they disappear in an alarming rate and a lot of comments are now gone that addressed repeating topics.
Posts you made should show up in your profile. And if they were truly deleted by the mods then you shouldn't keep talking about them as that is against Rule #5.
There's been several content creators that showed they had dates in which to sign this new OGL, which means it cannot be considered a draft - no one has a legal document DRAFT signed with dates, that is a legally binding contract.
As has been explained numerous times in this thread and ones like it, this isn't actually correct. Even if the leaks about signing dates are accurate, then something is still considered a draft as long as Wizards is negotiating terms with people or groups like Kickstarter.
I do agree that the people who were pushing for OGL 1.1 should be the ones to apologize. But... Fans already reacted incredibly poorly to earlier articles about this, imagine how much hate the person apologizing might receive.
I haven't seen any good evidence to say that it isn't accurate - and you're the first person to say so as far as I've seen, so I'm going to need some actual proof if you have it. However, your whole 'something is still considered a draft as long as Wizards is negotiating terms' thing seems to think that somehow the Kickstarter / WotC deal isn't finalized. It was. They already have their sweetheart deals with Kickstarter, that's why Kickstarter -knew- they had a lower rate than the listed 25% and were telling people that.
Kickstarter wouldn't say 'We have a lower rate' if they were still negotiating that rate, you get that right? That would be hugely stupid. It was already a done deal, ergo, they HAD signed the new OGL and they had real dates and documents backing it up - otherwise they never would have said they had fought to get a lower rate for people and had succeeded!
Like, I see literally no evidence that it was a draft. Anywhere. I see lots of evidence that it was a final version they did expect people to sign and abide by, it seems logical and obvious from basic events that we have all witnessed, so... ?
If you bothered to actually look at the actual Kickstarter quote, you would have all the evidence you need to know you were wrong. Here is what Kickstarter actually said--the full sentence: "Managed to get lower % plus more being discussed." They literally said in the very twitter post you were referencing that they were still in negotiations--they had reached a settlement on one particular term, but the negotiations were still not final.
Which... is what a draft is--it is a version of the document other than final. The very "evidence" you cite to support it not being a draft proves your entire point wrong when you bother to actually look at the source.
WOTC presented some content creators with a offensive OGL, that would hurt the content creators and deprive the community of those creative efforts.
The community rallied behind the content creators to show WOTC that we are protective over them.
WOTC promised to change course.
Immediately sensing weakness, the community doubled down on their efforts. Continued to unsub from D&DBeyond, promised to boycott the D&D movie, swore off all D&D products going forward. Not just risking the livihoods of the content creators, but also of innocent WOTC employees.
What are we angry about again? Hurting the content creators? Being deprived of future 3rd party releases for D&D? We're the ones doing that now. Not just that, but jeopardizing the careers of folks whose only crime is working for official D&D, which until last month we all loved....
I get the anger, but it's gone too far. Take a breather. Wait to see what WOTC's next OFFICIAL move is, not anonymous rumors. Let them show us with their actions if we need to continue the pressure.
I absolutely commend you for trying. But these people are like frenzied sharks and just want to keep feeding, even if they're full.
It is what it is. Let them scream and yell and each and every one of them spam the forums with "How do I delete/unsubscribe" or "Thoughts on OGL leak" (and the sixty variations of that because each of them wants their own thread so that they can stand out - rather than being civil and keeping it all in one, long, multipage thread).
Let them exodus. Let them unsub.
I am amused when this was all going on, and they're like, "I will never give WotC another dime! GOODBYE D&D!" and I'd link how they can delete their account... and they're like, "Well I am not going to delete my account. There's books I bought."
But if you said goodbye... why not delete? Convictions only go so far, it would seem.
They're all "putting on pressure" but all swear to never use WotC/D&D stuff again. So why remain? Why put on pressure? For others? How gracious. Let them fight their fights.
For a bunch of people who have said "goodbye" and "delete my account" - they somehow have not left yet. Still standing in the doorway, yelling.
Just wish they'd see themselves out. And we can carry on.
Kotath, I use 7 source books from 5e and i refuse to use any of the adventure material. In my opinion it is not nearly as good as adventuring material that have come before. I homebrew everything, maps, Npc's, Storylines and even the world. If i am going to use a module i will grab something out of my pdf Archive of BECMI/First Ed Modules and convert them 3pp is not a necessity but it is beneficial to have the resource.
It is getting hard to post here whole conversions are now gone that had valid points. I cannot remember the titles of the now missing threads but clearly to make long conversations in threads is going to be a waste of people's time if the whole thing is deleted with in a days time we just keep going over the same stuff over and over. huh I wonder if my post count goes down each time they delete a whole topic? I just posted a whole thing on lies and such it was awesome but now I for the life of me cannot find the post and I am torn do I continue to comment on topics that are clearly going to be deleted?
People in charge are most times the ones that do not use the product it is a boys club of the elite who often get the power jobs and the creators just stay minions. So the people in charge make policy and it often is not inline with the users of said product. If they never play the game they do not care about the users their concern is with the profits and the people above them they have to please. I am sorry if this is off the topic a bit but I can not follow the threads any more they disappear in an alarming rate and a lot of comments are now gone that addressed repeating topics.
Posts you made should show up in your profile. And if they were truly deleted by the mods then you shouldn't keep talking about them as that is against Rule #5.
dooo deee dooo you know if what whole groups of people's conversations are missing the rules do not matter anymore as it is clearly a huge waste of time reading what is clearly heavily censored material. continuing to write comments in a forum owned by the corporation being discussed about wrong doing is also a huge waste of time as the over censorship will just delete the negative statements about their products of behavior. Pointing these things out most likely will get one banished from the forum but that is just more evidence of the cover up of the evil deed they did to the creators.
The creators given the contract that in fact were NOT drafts the creators where first made to sign a Non-disclosure agreement a huge mistake on their part. They should have never signed that agreement and then contacted their legal counsel. Clearly hasbro and wizard of the coast were indeed trying to steel creators content and by dividing individuals with Non-disclosure agreement would hinder a class action lawsuit of a united base of creators.
Lies are a funny thing look at the blatant lies politicians make. They show if you lie you can lie about a lie and then lie about the lie you told to cover the first lie and then got caught in the lie only to have half of the people still believe all the lies no matter the amount of proof shown that they lied.
over censorship is a huge problem on forums as it leaves huge gaps in the threads and then you have the quotes like I did right here with your post that copied the censored post then the next thing you know all the posts are gone and the forum has no long standing post the extended history of remaining posts show a pattern of extreme censorship practice's. you can also look at current active posters post counts and see that huge portions of the members are banished here and not allowed to post and the members with low counts have negative comments and the small few with huge post counts are always pulling the line of the big corporations view and are most likely the one censoring the comments.
either way it is a huge waste of time arguing any real points on the franchise here on their ground we need to make out feelings known on other platforms like youtubers. Funny how you watch one video and then your whole you might like algorithm floods your shorts with the same type of content and even gives a comment button to comment with.
anyways I do not have to worry this topic is soon the be deleted Thank you for taking time to respond I am sorry I took a long time to respond for some reason I am no longer getting a notification of responses to my comments in the bell icon above geee I wonder why that glitch just suddenly started happening?
Dinky dinky do...=/
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And here I thought I was on my best behavior. BUT NO I got scolded and threatened with corner time. I guess we are not allowed to express our feelings or opinions on anything here. All hugs and kisses every body's special every one gets a ribbon that says 'Your a winner" Not here more then a week and I got naughty points twice. How many points do I get?
Oh boy golly do I agree! Fans reacting poorly to Hasbro trying to destroy a core pillar of the community is such a shame. If only there was something they could have done to keep these fans from being mad. Jeepers, the best course was surely to say nothing for over a week as sentiments dropped and rumors stirred. Can you imagine how bad it would have been if the company was proactive in responding to and addressing concerns?
I mean, if Hasbro didn't take that time to hone their message, they might have sent something out that was completely tone deaf to the community and not address any of the important talking points about their decision. Could you imagine? Luckily, people know that Hasbro has their backs and hasn't done anything like try to sell $1000 bundles of fake cards as a celebration to a beloved IP, or courted investors by saying that D&D is under monetized and they would be trying to add more recurrent charges. The Internal solidarity in the company is something too, what horrors would be wrought if there was a public sentiment that higher ups in the company only saw consumers as money bags? Luckily that isn't something we have to worry about at all! Lets just all be happy, because honestly, we're all winners here.
"A core pillar of the community" - No one that I have asked so far have been willing to cite even just a single 3rd party product necessary for their campaign. Instead, there is this 'You just don't understand!' rhetoric.
Posts like yours are self-owns. They show that you don't quite get how many of us play the game.
Nothing Wizards of the Coast have put out is "necessary" to run a campaign. This can be done with books that were published long before they purchased TSR. It can be done with a bare-bones presentation of the rules and the imagination of a good DM.
The blogosphere is also home to great content from which many of us harvest great ideas. During the disaster that was 4th edition, the hobby was practically kept on life support on G+ by players who've gone on to make further great content thanks to crowdfunding and the support from what is indeed a core pillar of the community.
Ben Milton articulates perfectly the divide in attitude we are witnessing:
Did you know you can buy 1st edition books cheaper then 5th edition? Cheers to your post Gary Gygar did it with paper and a pencil using he's imagination! There are 6 editions of paper books out there with 6 different rules to govern how to role play in a tabletop game! You can even watch people on youtube and twitch playing paper table top RPG's and become informed on how to play when to roll and just how much more fun it is to play in person on a tabletop with real live in person people! Wizards of the coasts D&D is a brand name RPG is your imagination and a group of friends having fun.
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And here I thought I was on my best behavior. BUT NO I got scolded and threatened with corner time. I guess we are not allowed to express our feelings or opinions on anything here. All hugs and kisses every body's special every one gets a ribbon that says 'Your a winner" Not here more then a week and I got naughty points twice. How many points do I get?
That's not it. What you are all missing is the obvious gaslighting in repeated posts and their refusal to allow new publishing under 1.0a. If they were to continue with 1.0a as is or make a 1.0b that is worded exactly the same except it adds in the words irrevocable, then we'd be fine with whatever they do with 1dnd and simply not use it. If they were to include their new product in 1.0a/1.0b or pledge to publish under ORC, then I, for one, would come back. I was excited about 1dnd and planned to play it with my friends as soon as the new vtt was up. The new vtt looked so shiny. I was beyond disappointed by their move. But I was not truly insulted until they called their obviously completed and completely hidden 1.1 a draft not once, but twice. They still call it a draft. To downplay what they were trying to do. That is bad leadership. That was a bad call. Their actions invite both distrust and ire. So I, for one, will continue to #canceldnd until such time as our demands are met.
Further, by posting it on this site, it is my opinion that it breaks their own TOS. Don't report them for that btw, get a ban for that. But by the letter of their rules, they absolutely did break them with that first response. Gaslighting is not ok, especially not when it causes such chaos in the forums, online, etc.
If any of my friends treated me the way they've treated this community with that response, then we would no longer be friends. If someone gaslit someone like that in a work environment, then they may very well be let go.
I get why you like dnd, what I don't get is why you all aren't as mad as the rest of us.
WOTC presented some content creators with a offensive OGL, that would hurt the content creators and deprive the community of those creative efforts.
The community rallied behind the content creators to show WOTC that we are protective over them.
WOTC promised to change course.
Immediately sensing weakness, the community doubled down on their efforts. Continued to unsub from D&DBeyond, promised to boycott the D&D movie, swore off all D&D products going forward. Not just risking the livihoods of the content creators, but also of innocent WOTC employees.
What are we angry about again? Hurting the content creators? Being deprived of future 3rd party releases for D&D? We're the ones doing that now. Not just that, but jeopardizing the careers of folks whose only crime is working for official D&D, which until last month we all loved....
I get the anger, but it's gone too far. Take a breather. Wait to see what WOTC's next OFFICIAL move is, not anonymous rumors. Let them show us with their actions if we need to continue the pressure.
The only reason they changed anything was due to loss of revenue. It's the only language they understand and the only thing we can do to force them to listen to the people who give them their money and what we want. Anything short of making the original OGL legally binding will not be accepted and they will have to learn that the hard way by being hit in the only place we can hurt them, their bottom line. It's the only way they'll listen.
Kotath, I use 7 source books from 5e and i refuse to use any of the adventure material. In my opinion it is not nearly as good as adventuring material that have come before. I homebrew everything, maps, Npc's, Storylines and even the world. If i am going to use a module i will grab something out of my pdf Archive of BECMI/First Ed Modules and convert them 3pp is not a necessity but it is beneficial to have the resource.
Sounds like we are very similar then, as DM's. However, any generic fantasy map would not be covered by 1.1. It would not be covered whether you make it or they make it. And they are going to have no bloody clue what you use at your table anyway.
The only things that would likely be covered would be 3rd party stuff that uses WotC race descriptions, monster descriptions, basically text-y 'flavour' material from WotC. They could also likely shut down anything using their logo (i.e. claiming to be 'D&D Compatible'), but less sure on that. And that would not apply to anything saying advertising as 'A fantasy game supplement.'
They cannot, literally cannot enforce any copyright to everything that could even slightly possibly be used in game. That would be like them trying to copyright the use of paper and pencils, or trying to copyright the internet. They would be laughed out of court. And even monsters, I mean WotC descriptions. They have no copyright over pre-existing folklore or the basic concept of role playing.
Oh and if they tried to shut down homebrew generally? They would literally kill the game. Even if they were somehow successful on that in court (very unlikely) and figured out some way to enforce it (essentially impossible), they would lose 99% of their players and have no viable product anymore.
It's so laughable that they would attempt to copyright and monetise imagination. All you have to do is change the wording on things and they no longer have a case.
Oh so I have to pay royalties? Well, I'm not actually using your product. I'm a Starlight Priest and I cast Heal Injuries.
It's actually ridiculous that they would even attempt something so outright stupid, and just shows that Hasbro have no idea what they've even bought here.
It's so laughable that they would attempt to copyright and monetise imagination. All you have to do is change the wording on things and they no longer have a case.
Oh so I have to pay royalties? Well, I'm not actually using your product. I'm a Starlight Priest and I cast Heal Injuries.
It's actually ridiculous that they would even attempt something so outright stupid, and just shows that Hasbro have no idea what they've even bought here.
Which is all why I do not believe that 1.1 means what people seem to think it means. Their lawyers are not that stupid. Nor would it be cost effective for them to be that aggressive, even if they could be. It would cost them far more in the myriad individual cases than they could ever possibly recover.
This kind of "Who you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?" it's a bit naive.
1.1 said what it said. The community answered with a big no, and WoTC has had to change its strategy.
Now it's time to move on and see what they do with OGL 2.0
Okay. They get a cookie for backpedaling like their bottom (line) depends on it.
Lets not forget the heart of the issue here isn’t exactly certain terms in the OGL. Let’s keep the heart of the issue abreast with the disrespect they showed the community.
It’s corporate greed run amok, full stop. OGL terms are a result of this disrespectful mindset, the terms are not what I personally am upset about. They are unfortunate and I’m glad they’re changing them, but no, that’s not the rub.
I am considered an ”obstacle to profit”. And so are you. Keep that in mind.
It's so laughable that they would attempt to copyright and monetise imagination. All you have to do is change the wording on things and they no longer have a case.
Oh so I have to pay royalties? Well, I'm not actually using your product. I'm a Starlight Priest and I cast Heal Injuries.
It's actually ridiculous that they would even attempt something so outright stupid, and just shows that Hasbro have no idea what they've even bought here.
Which is all why I do not believe that 1.1 means what people seem to think it means. Their lawyers are not that stupid. Nor would it be cost effective for them to be that aggressive, even if they could be. It would cost them far more in the myriad individual cases than they could ever possibly recover.
The thing is, Hasbro has no idea what they bought. They simply tried to apply their blanket strategy to a product on which it simply cannot and will not work. This was probably pointed out to them by people at WotC, but they attempted to push it through anyway, in the most underhanded way possible.
It's so laughable that they would attempt to copyright and monetise imagination. All you have to do is change the wording on things and they no longer have a case.
Oh so I have to pay royalties? Well, I'm not actually using your product. I'm a Starlight Priest and I cast Heal Injuries.
It's actually ridiculous that they would even attempt something so outright stupid, and just shows that Hasbro have no idea what they've even bought here.
Which is all why I do not believe that 1.1 means what people seem to think it means. Their lawyers are not that stupid. Nor would it be cost effective for them to be that aggressive, even if they could be. It would cost them far more in the myriad individual cases than they could ever possibly recover.
That anyone would believe that the attempt to over-monetise, OR that their lawyers don't know what they're doing is...depressing laughable. WoTC and Hasbro know full well what they are after. As are all big corporate entities: People and their money are a resource to be mined. Not individuals to be respected. Anyone who is thinking otherwise has simply drank some potent koolaid (Or is the victim of a LONG Con).
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It's not the arrow with my name on it that worries me. It's the arrow that says, "To whom it may concern".
It's so laughable that they would attempt to copyright and monetise imagination. All you have to do is change the wording on things and they no longer have a case.
Oh so I have to pay royalties? Well, I'm not actually using your product. I'm a Starlight Priest and I cast Heal Injuries.
It's actually ridiculous that they would even attempt something so outright stupid, and just shows that Hasbro have no idea what they've even bought here.
Which is all why I do not believe that 1.1 means what people seem to think it means. Their lawyers are not that stupid. Nor would it be cost effective for them to be that aggressive, even if they could be. It would cost them far more in the myriad individual cases than they could ever possibly recover.
That anyone would believe that the attempt to over-monetise, OR that their lawyers don't know what they're doing is...depressing laughable. WoTC and Hasbro know full well what they are after. As are all big corporate entities: People and their money are a resource to be mined. Not individuals to be respected. Anyone who is thinking otherwise has simply drank some potent koolaid (Or is the victim of a LONG Con).
Lots of Stockholm syndrome here in echo-land. 2112 Forever!
Hope and Light! <cackle>
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They've apologized, given more explanations + data, and removed numerous clauses that people didn't like. They don't have to address every single concern to be transparent, and it makes sense not to reveal all their inner business working, especially since what's in Open Game License 1.1 might change to due feedback in the survey.
If they had everything set in stone and were able to talk about every detail people are/were concerned about, then there would be no need for the new feedback process they're going through.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.They had an employee finally write up an actual kinda-apology today, well past a week into the incident. They may not have to be entirely transparent with everything but I think you're giving them way too much benefit of the doubt and leeway with your assessment of their actions. There's been several content creators that showed they had dates in which to sign this new OGL, which means it cannot be considered a draft - no one has a legal document DRAFT signed with dates, that is a legally binding contract. They're only insisting it's a draft because they want to cover their butts and aft like they weren't trying to trick third party content creators into signing it in a panic because they only had a week to figure out what to do or else lose everything.
If they wanted to actually apologize I think it'd come from one of the people who made the decision that this was the way to go, not some underling that clearly understands the game and community but isn't in a position of power to have actually made these poor decisions in the first place.
As has been explained numerous times in this thread and ones like it, this isn't actually correct. Even if the leaks about signing dates are accurate, then something is still considered a draft as long as Wizards is negotiating terms with people or groups like Kickstarter.
I do agree that the people who were pushing for OGL 1.1 should be the ones to apologize. But... Fans already reacted incredibly poorly to earlier articles about this, imagine how much hate the person apologizing might receive.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.It is getting hard to post here whole conversions are now gone that had valid points. I cannot remember the titles of the now missing threads but clearly to make long conversations in threads is going to be a waste of people's time if the whole thing is deleted with in a days time we just keep going over the same stuff over and over. huh I wonder if my post count goes down each time they delete a whole topic? I just posted a whole thing on lies and such it was awesome but now I for the life of me cannot find the post and I am torn do I continue to comment on topics that are clearly going to be deleted?
People in charge are most times the ones that do not use the product it is a boys club of the elite who often get the power jobs and the creators just stay minions. So the people in charge make policy and it often is not inline with the users of said product. If they never play the game they do not care about the users their concern is with the profits and the people above them they have to please. I am sorry if this is off the topic a bit but I can not follow the threads any more they disappear in an alarming rate and a lot of comments are now gone that addressed repeating topics.
And here I thought I was on my best behavior. BUT NO I got scolded and threatened with corner time. I guess we are not allowed to express our feelings or opinions on anything here. All hugs and kisses every body's special every one gets a ribbon that says 'Your a winner" Not here more then a week and I got naughty points twice. How many points do I get?
I haven't seen any good evidence to say that it isn't accurate - and you're the first person to say so as far as I've seen, so I'm going to need some actual proof if you have it. However, your whole 'something is still considered a draft as long as Wizards is negotiating terms' thing seems to think that somehow the Kickstarter / WotC deal isn't finalized. It was. They already have their sweetheart deals with Kickstarter, that's why Kickstarter -knew- they had a lower rate than the listed 25% and were telling people that.
Kickstarter wouldn't say 'We have a lower rate' if they were still negotiating that rate, you get that right? That would be hugely stupid. It was already a done deal, ergo, they HAD signed the new OGL and they had real dates and documents backing it up - otherwise they never would have said they had fought to get a lower rate for people and had succeeded!
Like, I see literally no evidence that it was a draft. Anywhere. I see lots of evidence that it was a final version they did expect people to sign and abide by, it seems logical and obvious from basic events that we have all witnessed, so... ?
Posts you made should show up in your profile. And if they were truly deleted by the mods then you shouldn't keep talking about them as that is against Rule #5.
If you bothered to actually look at the actual Kickstarter quote, you would have all the evidence you need to know you were wrong. Here is what Kickstarter actually said--the full sentence: "Managed to get lower % plus more being discussed." They literally said in the very twitter post you were referencing that they were still in negotiations--they had reached a settlement on one particular term, but the negotiations were still not final.
Which... is what a draft is--it is a version of the document other than final. The very "evidence" you cite to support it not being a draft proves your entire point wrong when you bother to actually look at the source.
I absolutely commend you for trying. But these people are like frenzied sharks and just want to keep feeding, even if they're full.
It is what it is. Let them scream and yell and each and every one of them spam the forums with "How do I delete/unsubscribe" or "Thoughts on OGL leak" (and the sixty variations of that because each of them wants their own thread so that they can stand out - rather than being civil and keeping it all in one, long, multipage thread).
Let them exodus. Let them unsub.
I am amused when this was all going on, and they're like, "I will never give WotC another dime! GOODBYE D&D!" and I'd link how they can delete their account... and they're like, "Well I am not going to delete my account. There's books I bought."
But if you said goodbye... why not delete? Convictions only go so far, it would seem.
They're all "putting on pressure" but all swear to never use WotC/D&D stuff again. So why remain? Why put on pressure? For others? How gracious. Let them fight their fights.
For a bunch of people who have said "goodbye" and "delete my account" - they somehow have not left yet. Still standing in the doorway, yelling.
Just wish they'd see themselves out. And we can carry on.
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Kotath, I use 7 source books from 5e and i refuse to use any of the adventure material. In my opinion it is not nearly as good as adventuring material that have come before. I homebrew everything, maps, Npc's, Storylines and even the world. If i am going to use a module i will grab something out of my pdf Archive of BECMI/First Ed Modules and convert them 3pp is not a necessity but it is beneficial to have the resource.
dooo deee dooo you know if what whole groups of people's conversations are missing the rules do not matter anymore as it is clearly a huge waste of time reading what is clearly heavily censored material. continuing to write comments in a forum owned by the corporation being discussed about wrong doing is also a huge waste of time as the over censorship will just delete the negative statements about their products of behavior. Pointing these things out most likely will get one banished from the forum but that is just more evidence of the cover up of the evil deed they did to the creators.
The creators given the contract that in fact were NOT drafts the creators where first made to sign a Non-disclosure agreement a huge mistake on their part. They should have never signed that agreement and then contacted their legal counsel. Clearly hasbro and wizard of the coast were indeed trying to steel creators content and by dividing individuals with Non-disclosure agreement would hinder a class action lawsuit of a united base of creators.
Lies are a funny thing look at the blatant lies politicians make. They show if you lie you can lie about a lie and then lie about the lie you told to cover the first lie and then got caught in the lie only to have half of the people still believe all the lies no matter the amount of proof shown that they lied.
over censorship is a huge problem on forums as it leaves huge gaps in the threads and then you have the quotes like I did right here with your post that copied the censored post then the next thing you know all the posts are gone and the forum has no long standing post the extended history of remaining posts show a pattern of extreme censorship practice's. you can also look at current active posters post counts and see that huge portions of the members are banished here and not allowed to post and the members with low counts have negative comments and the small few with huge post counts are always pulling the line of the big corporations view and are most likely the one censoring the comments.
either way it is a huge waste of time arguing any real points on the franchise here on their ground we need to make out feelings known on other platforms like youtubers. Funny how you watch one video and then your whole you might like algorithm floods your shorts with the same type of content and even gives a comment button to comment with.
anyways I do not have to worry this topic is soon the be deleted Thank you for taking time to respond I am sorry I took a long time to respond for some reason I am no longer getting a notification of responses to my comments in the bell icon above geee I wonder why that glitch just suddenly started happening?
Dinky dinky do...=/
And here I thought I was on my best behavior. BUT NO I got scolded and threatened with corner time. I guess we are not allowed to express our feelings or opinions on anything here. All hugs and kisses every body's special every one gets a ribbon that says 'Your a winner" Not here more then a week and I got naughty points twice. How many points do I get?
Did you know you can buy 1st edition books cheaper then 5th edition? Cheers to your post Gary Gygar did it with paper and a pencil using he's imagination! There are 6 editions of paper books out there with 6 different rules to govern how to role play in a tabletop game! You can even watch people on youtube and twitch playing paper table top RPG's and become informed on how to play when to roll and just how much more fun it is to play in person on a tabletop with real live in person people! Wizards of the coasts D&D is a brand name RPG is your imagination and a group of friends having fun.
And here I thought I was on my best behavior. BUT NO I got scolded and threatened with corner time. I guess we are not allowed to express our feelings or opinions on anything here. All hugs and kisses every body's special every one gets a ribbon that says 'Your a winner" Not here more then a week and I got naughty points twice. How many points do I get?
That's not it. What you are all missing is the obvious gaslighting in repeated posts and their refusal to allow new publishing under 1.0a. If they were to continue with 1.0a as is or make a 1.0b that is worded exactly the same except it adds in the words irrevocable, then we'd be fine with whatever they do with 1dnd and simply not use it.
If they were to include their new product in 1.0a/1.0b or pledge to publish under ORC, then I, for one, would come back.
I was excited about 1dnd and planned to play it with my friends as soon as the new vtt was up.
The new vtt looked so shiny.
I was beyond disappointed by their move.
But I was not truly insulted until they called their obviously completed and completely hidden 1.1 a draft not once, but twice.
They still call it a draft. To downplay what they were trying to do.
That is bad leadership. That was a bad call. Their actions invite both distrust and ire.
So I, for one, will continue to #canceldnd until such time as our demands are met.
Further, by posting it on this site, it is my opinion that it breaks their own TOS. Don't report them for that btw, get a ban for that. But by the letter of their rules, they absolutely did break them with that first response. Gaslighting is not ok, especially not when it causes such chaos in the forums, online, etc.
If any of my friends treated me the way they've treated this community with that response, then we would no longer be friends. If someone gaslit someone like that in a work environment, then they may very well be let go.
I get why you like dnd, what I don't get is why you all aren't as mad as the rest of us.
Sacrifices don't mean anything if there are no consequences.
The only reason they changed anything was due to loss of revenue. It's the only language they understand and the only thing we can do to force them to listen to the people who give them their money and what we want. Anything short of making the original OGL legally binding will not be accepted and they will have to learn that the hard way by being hit in the only place we can hurt them, their bottom line. It's the only way they'll listen.
It's so laughable that they would attempt to copyright and monetise imagination. All you have to do is change the wording on things and they no longer have a case.
Oh so I have to pay royalties? Well, I'm not actually using your product. I'm a Starlight Priest and I cast Heal Injuries.
It's actually ridiculous that they would even attempt something so outright stupid, and just shows that Hasbro have no idea what they've even bought here.
This kind of "Who you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?" it's a bit naive.
1.1 said what it said. The community answered with a big no, and WoTC has had to change its strategy.
Now it's time to move on and see what they do with OGL 2.0
“D&D is under-monetized”
We are, ”Obstacles to profit”
Okay. They get a cookie for backpedaling like their bottom (line) depends on it.
Lets not forget the heart of the issue here isn’t exactly certain terms in the OGL. Let’s keep the heart of the issue abreast with the disrespect they showed the community.
It’s corporate greed run amok, full stop. OGL terms are a result of this disrespectful mindset, the terms are not what I personally am upset about. They are unfortunate and I’m glad they’re changing them, but no, that’s not the rub.
I am considered an ”obstacle to profit”. And so are you. Keep that in mind.
D&D is Now Trash
Goodbye
The thing is, Hasbro has no idea what they bought. They simply tried to apply their blanket strategy to a product on which it simply cannot and will not work. This was probably pointed out to them by people at WotC, but they attempted to push it through anyway, in the most underhanded way possible.
That anyone would believe that the attempt to over-monetise, OR that their lawyers don't know what they're doing is...depressing laughable.
WoTC and Hasbro know full well what they are after.
As are all big corporate entities: People and their money are a resource to be mined. Not individuals to be respected.
Anyone who is thinking otherwise has simply drank some potent koolaid (Or is the victim of a LONG Con).
It's not the arrow with my name on it that worries me. It's the arrow that says, "To whom it may concern".
Lots of Stockholm syndrome here in echo-land.
2112 Forever!
Hope and Light!
<cackle>