This has been discussed ad nauseam. If there are consequences for WotC employees it will be the fault of Hasbro and WotC execs.
If we don't like what they are doing we are well within our rights to agitate against that and express our displeasure by withholding our resources.
It is not our responsibility to subsidize WotC employees. We are not obligated to spend our money where we don't want to, and it is our right to withhold our money and support as a form of protest to effect change.
Don't tell us how to feel, and don't try to scare us in to backing down. It is unseemly, imo.
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Anyone who sides with a corporate entity that is obviously bent on making all the money instead of just some money has not experienced the corporate horror that has been visited upon the PC/Console Gaming Industry over the last 2.5 decades. OR they're a shill for that kind of anti-consumer BS. Growth economics is a a cancer.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's not the arrow with my name on it that worries me. It's the arrow that says, "To whom it may concern".
This has been discussed ad nauseam. If there are consequences for WotC employees it will be the fault of Hasbro and WotC execs.
If we don't like what we are doing we are well within our rights to agitated against that and express our displeasure by withholding our resources.
It is not our responsibility to subsidize WotC employees. We are not obligated to spend our money where we don't want to, and it is our right to withhold our money and support as a form of protest to effect change.
Don't tell us how to feel, and don't try to scare us in to backing down. It is unseemly, imo.
This, on a megaphone, live streamed, and replayed 24\7.
WotC tried to bully some creators with a very unfair OGL and make them sign it under threat of losing EVERYTHING in just a week, secretly, because they knew they had no legal ground to stand on and the only way this would work is if they got enough large 3rd party people to sign the new OGL because if they sign it they -are- beholden to it.
This effort leaked, and the community rallied behind them to show WOTC that this was some BS.
WotC spent a WEEK STAYING SILENT ABOUT IT, neither confirming that it was true or denying that it was false.
After a WEEK of not knowing what would happen, letting the community burn, WotC finally released a duplicitous statement full of lies insisting that it was just a draft [no one would try and get someone to sign a legal draft] and promising they'd change course, but also saying that they're still going to update the OGL because they absolutely have not learned anything and are still going to be greedy little piglets that want to steal everything you make.
Everyone points out that they're lying and being greedy AF, and WotC...
Stays silent again, because they'd rather let the community burn and have all the third party content creators leave since now their legal ability to actually make content [and thus their livelihoods] is now in a precarious position due entirely to WotC's choices. Like - would YOU want to stick around in a creative job where you could lose your rights to sell your creative works overnight? Especially when there are other options out there to so a similar thing, just with a different gaming system? I doubt it.
We're mad that Wizards of the Coast is absolutely BUTCHERING this community and seems to have absolutely no idea what they're doing while they do it. Let me know if you need another refresher, because this whole 'don't be so mad at WotC for trying to flay the community alive' song and dance isn't really jiving.
What are you afraid of here? That WotC and Hasbro will let their golden goose die? I think that's highly unlikely. The community is justified in any protest of D&D products, that require their wallets. It's our money, we can do with it what we want. We don't owe money to Hasbro or WotC
That's like saying don't unionize if your conditions are bad, because company will lose money if you go on strike. In this case, the community votes with their wallets, because that's a language (if not the only one) big companies understand. Economics 101.
Being proactive is more effective than being reactive. Saying "ooo we won they're rethinking it gg" is shortsighted and assumes a skirmish was the entire war. This is why you lose at chess.
What does "winning" look like to you in this scenario?
There is no winners in this anymore but what can be salvaged is the question. Wotc made sure nobody can win in this
It has become a war of attrition. And we are at a disadvantage. No one is going to come out on top in this, its a question of who will come out the least destroyed. The damage has been done to D&D already and it will be felt for years to come.
There's this stellar lack of something to actually be mad about atm, yet, these threads and posts keep propping up as if there was a new OGL released or any of the more brain-dead rumors have been confirmed.
Being proactive is more effective than being reactive. Saying "ooo we won they're rethinking it gg" is shortsighted and assumes a skirmish was the entire war. This is why you lose at chess.
What does "winning" look like to you in this scenario?
There is no winners in this anymore but what can be salvaged is the question. Wotc made sure nobody can win in this
It has become a war of attrition. And we are at a disadvantage. No one is going to come out on top in this, its a question of who will come out the least destroyed. The damage has been done to D&D already and it will be felt for years to come.
At this point, any further damage is purely collateral. The objectives have been achieved (as well they can be at this given time), and people still want blood.
War is sometimes necessary, but once your enemy is defeated, extra violence is just hurting people for the sake of it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Being proactive is more effective than being reactive. Saying "ooo we won they're rethinking it gg" is shortsighted and assumes a skirmish was the entire war. This is why you lose at chess.
What does "winning" look like to you in this scenario?
There is no winners in this anymore but what can be salvaged is the question. Wotc made sure nobody can win in this
It has become a war of attrition. And we are at a disadvantage. No one is going to come out on top in this, its a question of who will come out the least destroyed. The damage has been done to D&D already and it will be felt for years to come.
How does anyone seriously write something like this, lol?
Being proactive is more effective than being reactive. Saying "ooo we won they're rethinking it gg" is shortsighted and assumes a skirmish was the entire war. This is why you lose at chess.
What does "winning" look like to you in this scenario?
There is no winners in this anymore but what can be salvaged is the question. Wotc made sure nobody can win in this
It has become a war of attrition. And we are at a disadvantage. No one is going to come out on top in this, its a question of who will come out the least destroyed. The damage has been done to D&D already and it will be felt for years to come.
At this point, any further damage is purely collateral. The objectives have been achieved (as well they can be at this given time), and people still want blood.
War is sometimes necessary, but once your enemy is defeated, extra violence is just hurting people for the sake of it.
TBH. there's only ever been 1 objective to this whole thing - do not deauthorize OGL 1.0a.
Is deauthorization illegal? probably. Is deauthorization a poison pill to the community? yes. Is deauthorization the root of 99% of the problems here? also yes
Realistically unless the new OGL that they're debuting on Friday walks deauthorization back I don't see what improvement has been made for new content for anything other than 6th edition. Especially with the OGL being a ride-along license where 1.0a would still need to be a license on anything that references OGL material it's potentially just as damaging long term in its current state.
Being proactive is more effective than being reactive. Saying "ooo we won they're rethinking it gg" is shortsighted and assumes a skirmish was the entire war. This is why you lose at chess.
What does "winning" look like to you in this scenario?
Winning is having them come with a more content-creator forward OGL and get away from their monetize-at-all-costs mentality. Yes they have shareholders and shareholders demand infinite exponential growth. However, there are ways to monetize that do not galvanize your userbase and instead make them want to give you money. Actually having good content and branching out into more diverse mediums with which to tell your stories. Utilizing the third party sphere to bring in more people by hiring and building out partnership teams to help elevate the level of content that's created on all fronts. That's winning for the community in my view. Would I be happy dropping an extra 30% on an adventure series? Not really, but if it was significantly better than what we're currently getting? Absolutely.
That doesn't fix the major issue with OGL 1.1 which is the deauthorization of OGL 1.0a.
This only fixes (some) things for people who were going to make content for one D&D/6e since wotc can apply whatever license they want to that SRD anyways.
.... For context that's the winning line. Do not deauthorize OGL 1.0a (wotc probably can't in the first place but that's the root of these problems.)
That doesn't fix the major issue with OGL 1.1 which is the deauthorization of OGL 1.0a.
This only fixes (some) things for people who were going to make content for one D&D/6e since wotc can apply whatever license they want to that SRD anyways.
.... For context that's the winning line. Do not deauthorize OGL 1.0a (wotc probably can't in the first place but that's the root of these problems.)
I intend to put that in my survey response, for sure.
The key thing is, being mad works. If you're still mad, be mad. If you're willing to de escalate until more info is available, great.
But when the survey hits, tell everyone you can to respond.
Being proactive is more effective than being reactive. Saying "ooo we won they're rethinking it gg" is shortsighted and assumes a skirmish was the entire war. This is why you lose at chess.
What does "winning" look like to you in this scenario?
There is no winners in this anymore but what can be salvaged is the question. Wotc made sure nobody can win in this
It has become a war of attrition. And we are at a disadvantage. No one is going to come out on top in this, its a question of who will come out the least destroyed. The damage has been done to D&D already and it will be felt for years to come.
How does anyone seriously write something like this, lol?
It's the truth. No one is going to win and its completely WotC's fault. Poeple think that we "won" and we need to stop yet nothing has changed. OGL 2.0 is still set to come out, some provisions have been taken out for now since they can just revise the OGL 2.0 with 30 days notice meaning they can just add it back in after the fact. We are at a disadvantage due to the short attention spans of consumers and we don't have the resources that WotC has.
This has been discussed ad nauseam. If there are consequences for WotC employees it will be the fault of Hasbro and WotC execs.
If we don't like what they are doing we are well within our rights to agitate against that and express our displeasure by withholding our resources.
It is not our responsibility to subsidize WotC employees. We are not obligated to spend our money where we don't want to, and it is our right to withhold our money and support as a form of protest to effect change.
Don't tell us how to feel, and don't try to scare us in to backing down. It is unseemly, imo.
And let's make sure it's understood that a probable reason for the cash-grabby nature of OGL 1.1 is/was because Hasbro has been marketing garbage and losing money doing it. The Magic the Gathering crap is a good example. They're literally destroying customer loyalty with terrible decision making. The OGL Storm is just another poop in the pot that they are blindly stirring.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's not the arrow with my name on it that worries me. It's the arrow that says, "To whom it may concern".
That doesn't fix the major issue with OGL 1.1 which is the deauthorization of OGL 1.0a.
This only fixes (some) things for people who were going to make content for one D&D/6e since wotc can apply whatever license they want to that SRD anyways.
.... For context that's the winning line. Do not deauthorize OGL 1.0a (wotc probably can't in the first place but that's the root of these problems.)
Direct quote from the article you replied to.
"Your OGL 1.0a content. Nothing will impact any content you have published under OGL 1.0a. That will always be licensed under OGL 1.0a."
I guess we'll wait and see what it says in the legal documentation. But their public stance as of this morning seems pretty clear.
Nothing will impact any content you have published under OGL 1.0a. Which sounds like them not deauthorizing OGL 1.0a.
That doesn't fix the major issue with OGL 1.1 which is the deauthorization of OGL 1.0a.
This only fixes (some) things for people who were going to make content for one D&D/6e since wotc can apply whatever license they want to that SRD anyways.
.... For context that's the winning line. Do not deauthorize OGL 1.0a (wotc probably can't in the first place but that's the root of these problems.)
Direct quote from the article you replied to.
"Your OGL 1.0a content. Nothing will impact any content you have published under OGL 1.0a. That will always be licensed under OGL 1.0a."
I guess we'll wait and see what it says in the legal documentation. But their public stance as of this morning seems pretty clear.
Nothing will impact any content you have published under OGL 1.0a. Which sounds like them not deauthorizing OGL 1.0a.
OGL 1.0a not being deauthorized means that you can continue publishing content for 3.5 and 5e, without new limitations like prohibitions for video games.
"No impact on prior publishing" is only part of it.
That doesn't fix the major issue with OGL 1.1 which is the deauthorization of OGL 1.0a.
This only fixes (some) things for people who were going to make content for one D&D/6e since wotc can apply whatever license they want to that SRD anyways.
.... For context that's the winning line. Do not deauthorize OGL 1.0a (wotc probably can't in the first place but that's the root of these problems.)
Direct quote from the article you replied to.
"Your OGL 1.0a content. Nothing will impact any content you have published under OGL 1.0a. That will always be licensed under OGL 1.0a."
I guess we'll wait and see what it says in the legal documentation. But their public stance as of this morning seems pretty clear.
Nothing will impact any content you have published under OGL 1.0a. Which sounds like them not deauthorizing OGL 1.0a.
"Nothing will impact content you have published under OGL 1.0a"
They're not walking back deauthorizing 1.0a they're stating that they'll grandfather current publications. This is a PR way of saying "We don't want to end up in a lawsuit over currently published materials but we also don't want you to keep making content under that license. So we're still deauthorizing it we're just lowering the amount that you can claim for damages"
Their statement actively supports the notion that 1.0a is getting deauthorized still.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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This has been discussed ad nauseam. If there are consequences for WotC employees it will be the fault of Hasbro and WotC execs.
If we don't like what they are doing we are well within our rights to agitate against that and express our displeasure by withholding our resources.
It is not our responsibility to subsidize WotC employees. We are not obligated to spend our money where we don't want to, and it is our right to withhold our money and support as a form of protest to effect change.
Don't tell us how to feel, and don't try to scare us in to backing down. It is unseemly, imo.
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Anyone who sides with a corporate entity that is obviously bent on making all the money instead of just some money has not experienced the corporate horror that has been visited upon the PC/Console Gaming Industry over the last 2.5 decades.
OR they're a shill for that kind of anti-consumer BS.
Growth economics is a a cancer.
It's not the arrow with my name on it that worries me. It's the arrow that says, "To whom it may concern".
This, on a megaphone, live streamed, and replayed 24\7.
The timeline so far:
We're mad that Wizards of the Coast is absolutely BUTCHERING this community and seems to have absolutely no idea what they're doing while they do it. Let me know if you need another refresher, because this whole 'don't be so mad at WotC for trying to flay the community alive' song and dance isn't really jiving.
What are you afraid of here? That WotC and Hasbro will let their golden goose die? I think that's highly unlikely. The community is justified in any protest of D&D products, that require their wallets. It's our money, we can do with it what we want. We don't owe money to Hasbro or WotC
That's like saying don't unionize if your conditions are bad, because company will lose money if you go on strike. In this case, the community votes with their wallets, because that's a language (if not the only one) big companies understand. Economics 101.
It has become a war of attrition. And we are at a disadvantage. No one is going to come out on top in this, its a question of who will come out the least destroyed. The damage has been done to D&D already and it will be felt for years to come.
There's this stellar lack of something to actually be mad about atm, yet, these threads and posts keep propping up as if there was a new OGL released or any of the more brain-dead rumors have been confirmed.
At this point, any further damage is purely collateral. The objectives have been achieved (as well they can be at this given time), and people still want blood.
War is sometimes necessary, but once your enemy is defeated, extra violence is just hurting people for the sake of it.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
How does anyone seriously write something like this, lol?
A Working Conversation About the Open Game License (OGL)
TBH. there's only ever been 1 objective to this whole thing - do not deauthorize OGL 1.0a.
Is deauthorization illegal? probably.
Is deauthorization a poison pill to the community? yes.
Is deauthorization the root of 99% of the problems here? also yes
Realistically unless the new OGL that they're debuting on Friday walks deauthorization back I don't see what improvement has been made for new content for anything other than 6th edition. Especially with the OGL being a ride-along license where 1.0a would still need to be a license on anything that references OGL material it's potentially just as damaging long term in its current state.
Winning is having them come with a more content-creator forward OGL and get away from their monetize-at-all-costs mentality. Yes they have shareholders and shareholders demand infinite exponential growth. However, there are ways to monetize that do not galvanize your userbase and instead make them want to give you money. Actually having good content and branching out into more diverse mediums with which to tell your stories. Utilizing the third party sphere to bring in more people by hiring and building out partnership teams to help elevate the level of content that's created on all fronts. That's winning for the community in my view. Would I be happy dropping an extra 30% on an adventure series? Not really, but if it was significantly better than what we're currently getting? Absolutely.
That doesn't fix the major issue with OGL 1.1 which is the deauthorization of OGL 1.0a.
This only fixes (some) things for people who were going to make content for one D&D/6e since wotc can apply whatever license they want to that SRD anyways.
.... For context that's the winning line. Do not deauthorize OGL 1.0a (wotc probably can't in the first place but that's the root of these problems.)
I intend to put that in my survey response, for sure.
The key thing is, being mad works. If you're still mad, be mad. If you're willing to de escalate until more info is available, great.
But when the survey hits, tell everyone you can to respond.
It's the truth. No one is going to win and its completely WotC's fault. Poeple think that we "won" and we need to stop yet nothing has changed. OGL 2.0 is still set to come out, some provisions have been taken out for now since they can just revise the OGL 2.0 with 30 days notice meaning they can just add it back in after the fact. We are at a disadvantage due to the short attention spans of consumers and we don't have the resources that WotC has.
And let's make sure it's understood that a probable reason for the cash-grabby nature of OGL 1.1 is/was because Hasbro has been marketing garbage and losing money doing it.
The Magic the Gathering crap is a good example.
They're literally destroying customer loyalty with terrible decision making.
The OGL Storm is just another poop in the pot that they are blindly stirring.
It's not the arrow with my name on it that worries me. It's the arrow that says, "To whom it may concern".
Direct quote from the article you replied to.
"Your OGL 1.0a content. Nothing will impact any content you have published under OGL 1.0a. That will always be licensed under OGL 1.0a."
I guess we'll wait and see what it says in the legal documentation. But their public stance as of this morning seems pretty clear.
Nothing will impact any content you have published under OGL 1.0a. Which sounds like them not deauthorizing OGL 1.0a.
OGL 1.0a not being deauthorized means that you can continue publishing content for 3.5 and 5e, without new limitations like prohibitions for video games.
"No impact on prior publishing" is only part of it.
"Nothing will impact content you have published under OGL 1.0a"
They're not walking back deauthorizing 1.0a they're stating that they'll grandfather current publications. This is a PR way of saying "We don't want to end up in a lawsuit over currently published materials but we also don't want you to keep making content under that license. So we're still deauthorizing it we're just lowering the amount that you can claim for damages"
Their statement actively supports the notion that 1.0a is getting deauthorized still.