Fine. There. The line that bothers you so much is gone from my signature. You clearly misunderstood its purpose in the first place, but nevertheless it's gone.
Now. Are you gonna stop calling me out and making personal digs at me over it? Your umbrage with my delivery is noted but irrelevant, I will be as colorful and fiery as I like until told by forum staff to do otherwise. This place has been an incendiary hellscape the last couple of weeks, do pardon me if I'm not feeling very charitable towards the deluge of Jamie-come-latelies who've never bothered engaging with the community before a day in their damn life trotting out of the weeds to tell me and mine we're horrible people for wanting to play some god damned D&D.
I’ve literally been off and on on this forum for a while. I’m not a consistent presence because half the time it sets itself on fire.
You still attacked people like me (avid 1.0a diehard) and stayed we were basically just supporting it for hatespeech and theft. I have no idea why in the world you think this makes your position defensible. You’re literally just antagonizing people who don’t agree with you here.
If it were just about bigoted racist things, they could literally just add those words into the 1.0a, I whole heartedly doubt the community would blink twice except maybe a tiny insignificant amount of people. To me I feel like the bigger uproar should be about wotc having folks give up thier right to a class action lawsuit or a jury selected trial because 2/3 of judges are corporate friendly judges even in the very blue Washington state. You folks think wotc won’t steal from the creators if they think it makes them money? I’d argue they are making plans and putting pieces in place to do it. Hell car companies sell dangerous onions all the time after they’ve done a risk assessment and decided they’d make a certain amount more than they’d lose. Also VTT does it seriously mean it’s a video game just because you cast fireball and a fireball shoots across the screen? Or magic missile make a missile with glitter go off? Seriously that’s like telling magicians not to use smoke and mirrors or any special efffects because it’s not magic anymore if they do, like bro it’s just added flare to the entertainment.
If it were just about bigoted racist things, they could literally just add those words into the 1.0a, I whole heartedly doubt the community would blink twice except maybe a tiny insignificant amount of people.
they can't though, because the language of the 1.0a says that if multiple versions of itself come into existence, then a user can use any of them. Basically, if they did this, any bad actor could still use the original version without the edit with no recourse from WotC despite the potential for liability/reputational harm falling significantly on them
To me I feel like the bigger uproar should be about wotc having folks give up thier right to a class action lawsuit or a jury selected trial because 2/3 of judges are corporate friendly judges even in the very blue Washington state. You folks think wotc won’t steal from the creators if they think it makes them money? I’d argue they are making plans and putting pieces in place to do it. Hell car companies sell dangerous onions all the time after they’ve done a risk assessment and decided they’d make a certain amount more than they’d lose. Also VTT does it seriously mean it’s a video game just because you cast fireball and a fireball shoots across the screen? Or magic missile make a missile with glitter go off? Seriously that’s like telling magicians not to use smoke and mirrors or any special efffects because it’s not magic anymore if they do, like bro it’s just added flare to the entertainment.
I don't disagree with your points here, and that is why i noted in my survey response that greater clarity on what they mean by this is needed in the VTT policy.
Fine. There. The line that bothers you so much is gone from my signature. You clearly misunderstood its purpose in the first place, but nevertheless it's gone.
Now. Are you gonna stop calling me out and making personal digs at me over it? Your umbrage with my delivery is noted but irrelevant, I will be as colorful and fiery as I like until told by forum staff to do otherwise. This place has been an incendiary hellscape the last couple of weeks, do pardon me if I'm not feeling very charitable towards the deluge of Jamie-come-latelies who've never bothered engaging with the community before a day in their damn life trotting out of the weeds to tell me and mine we're horrible people for wanting to play some god damned D&D.
So because I've just started posting, my opinions are less relevant than yours?
Have you considered that someone who has not previously engaged with the community but now feels the need to might actually have something important to say? That it might be noteworthy that recent events have disturbed them to the point where they feel their voice needs to be heard? That they might care enough about the game and the community to do something about it, even if you don't agree with their assessment?
Do you appreciate how patronising and dismissive your statement comes across to me?
So because I've just started posting, my opinions are less relevant than yours?
No. But ten hundred thousand million billion trillion banana-gorrillion random names I've never seen before showing up out of nowhere - literally nowhere - to attack me, my friends, my table, my game, and my hobby has a tendency to get my goat up. Especially when almost every single one of them is screaming at the tippiest-top of their lungs about how WIZARDS IS EVIL FOREVER and DEATH TO D&D and doing everything in their power to ensure I no longer have a D&D 5e to play by this time next year.
Have you considered that someone who has not previously engaged with the community but now feels the need to might actually have something important to say? That it might be noteworthy that recent events have disturbed them to the point where they feel their voice needs to be heard? That they might care enough about the game and the community to do something about it, even if you don't agree with their assessment?
I have indeed considered that. I've tried being reasonable in my attempts to call for calm. I've tried being a voice of reason. Nobody's listening to reason. It's R.I.O.T., all day every day, and if you're not a fellow rioter you're The Enemy. I've had people send me DMs accusing me of being a white supremacist because I've been on the side of less hateful content in D&D. I don't even know how that ******* happened, but it did. I've had people personally attack me, deliberately misgender me specifically to piss me off, and tell me I don't deserve to play any tabletop game anymore, let alone just D&D.
If y'all are gonna keep treating anyone who isn't burning the house down as The Enemy, you're gonna get some people biting back. Sorry, but that's just the way it is with this subject.
Do you appreciate how patronising and dismissive your statement comes across to me?
Sorry about that. Can I ask if you've ever thought about how needlessly hostile and disruptive to the whole negotiation process all the "OGL 1.0a OR ******* DEATH" posts we keep getting inundated by come off as to people trying to work with what we've got and make things the best they can be? 1.0a is dying. There's nothing we can do about that. But we can make 1.2 a better, more protective document for everybody involved.
If people will ******* let us, instead of treating us like The Enemy and setting our panties on fire every time we try and get any actually productive discussion started.
So here. Use this thread as a hate sink. I'll be honest, I built it as one. Post in here, yell and rant and snap and snarl at me all you want and I will let you do that. IF, in return, you leavbe threads such as Constructive OGL Suggestionsthe hell alone and let us do whatever we can to make 1.2 a better deal for everybody.
You don't start a conversation or dialogue like that and expect feedback as your not establishing it in good faith.
There is no argument that WOTC can make their new license and do what ever for 6e.
They CANNOT HOWEVER revoke, de-auth, or rescind 1.0a as it isn't within the powers afforded to them for any content that is using the 1.0a OGL. They can make new versions, they can do what ever, but they cannot back out of agreement already established.
They actually did this already with 4e. They came back to it with 5e. If they want they can go away for 6e, but they have to honor the established agreements. Otherwise it will bring pain (legal, monetarily, trust, etc.).
So because I've just started posting, my opinions are less relevant than yours?
No. But ten hundred thousand million billion trillion banana-gorrillion random names I've never seen before showing up out of nowhere - literally nowhere - to attack me, my friends, my table, my game, and my hobby has a tendency to get my goat up. Especially when almost every single one of them is screaming at the tippiest-top of their lungs about how WIZARDS IS EVIL FOREVER and DEATH TO D&D and doing everything in their power to ensure I no longer have a D&D 5e to play by this time next year.
Have you considered that someone who has not previously engaged with the community but now feels the need to might actually have something important to say? That it might be noteworthy that recent events have disturbed them to the point where they feel their voice needs to be heard? That they might care enough about the game and the community to do something about it, even if you don't agree with their assessment?
I have indeed considered that. I've tried being reasonable in my attempts to call for calm. I've tried being a voice of reason. Nobody's listening to reason. It's R.I.O.T., all day every day, and if you're not a fellow rioter you're The Enemy. I've had people send me DMs accusing me of being a white supremacist because I've been on the side of less hateful content in D&D. I don't even know how that ****ing happened, but it did. I've had people personally attack me, deliberately misgender me specifically to piss me off, and tell me I don't deserve to play any tabletop game anymore, let alone just D&D.
If y'all are gonna keep treating anyone who isn't burning the house down as The Enemy, you're gonna get some people biting back. Sorry, but that's just the way it is with this subject.
Do you appreciate how patronising and dismissive your statement comes across to me?
Sorry about that. Can I ask if you've ever thought about how needlessly hostile and disruptive to the whole negotiation process all the "OGL 1.0a OR ****ING DEATH" posts we keep getting inundated by come off as to people trying to work with what we've got and make things the best they can be? 1.0a is dying. There's nothing we can do about that. But we can make 1.2 a better, more protective document for everybody involved.
If people will ****ing let us, instead of treating us like The Enemy and setting our panties on fire every time we try and get any actually productive discussion started.
So here. Use this thread as a hate sink. I'll be honest, I built it as one. Post in here, yell and rant and snap and snarl at me all you want and I will let you do that. IF, in return, you leavbe threads such as Constructive OGL Suggestionsthe hell alone and let us do whatever we can to make 1.2 a better deal for everybody.
Deal?
for the record, that happened in this thread, by a post that was reported and deleted. Just confirming that Yurei isn't talking out of their ass here.
Edit: spoilers used to hide text not relevant to this response
Since you guys are generally against Wizards being able to protect their players, their IP, their employees, or anything else...let me ask you this. As a hypothetical.
Gotta love how much you've got loaded into that first sentence. Based on the amount of flawed and biased presumptions baked into the question my answer would be no. This doesn't sound like a place where I'll find someone who's honestly seeking discussion.
You don't start a conversation or dialogue like that and expect feedback as your not establishing it in good faith.
There is no argument that WOTC can make their new license and do what ever for 6e.
They CANNOT HOWEVER revoke, de-auth, or rescind 1.0a as it isn't within the powers afforded to them for any content that is using the 1.0a OGL. They can make new versions, they can do what ever, but they cannot back out of agreement already established.
I've seen several analysis that disagree here, and until it goes to court, no one can say for sure. I'm going with they can, as the document does not say it is irrevocable.
They actually did this already with 4e. They came back to it with 5e. If they want they can go away for 6e, but they have to honor the established agreements. Otherwise it will bring pain (legal, monetarily, trust, etc.).
... 1) Trust that the community will oust those who need to be ousted as it has done for 22 years ...
Except "The Community " has explicitly, provably, and verifiably Not Done That Thing. I know all the 1.0a diehards are people who've never engaged with the DDB community and are here specifically to piss in everybody's corn flakes and make sure nothing happens to 1.0a no matter how bad that turns out for people, but racism is a huge problem in this forum. We are constantly having to deal with fresh threads from new people trying to protest Wizards' measures to reduce hateful content in their game and trying to push against it. Every third time I turn around there's some new gobshyte "Wizards is Killing LORE!" thread where some jackwaffle is protesting that orcs being evil and PCs indulging in goblin genocide never hurt nobody ever and we should all stop trying to "woke-ify" D&D. It's gotten to the point where the mods have to step in on every thread and remind people that denying other people's pain and problems is no longer permitted in DDB, and we still get the "you're just a woke ****in' liar!" posts in most of these threads.
And not a damn ****ing soul outside of a dozen or so folks on this forum and some overworked mods that have to ever does a single god damned thing about it. And those dozen-odd folks constantly get called absolutely horrid shit for daring to speak up against the active celebration of flagrant racism in D&D.
Where've you been for all those threads, good sir? Where was your united community effort to oust Evil Hateful Shit for the three years we've had to fight this constant goddamned brush war against Evil Hateful Shit in our own house?
Nah. I don't trust "The Community" to do jack monkey squat about hateful content. I was proud of us as a community for 'bout ninety seconds when I read the first Wizards response and their pullback on the most objectionable elements of 1.2...then I was reminded that oh yeah, everything sucks here as people immediately started eating each other alive over it.
No offense but the most racist and hateful content published and actions taken for D&D in the last 20 years came directly FROM Wizards of the Coasts, not from the 3rd party community. I mean I don't know how you could possibly defend a company that published things like Spelljammer and Radiant Citadel, two of the most bigoted things I have ever read in an RPG in quite literally decades.
I will grant you WotC at least partially acknowledged how awful this content was, but to this day I can't get over how a company in the 21st century proclaiming so much righteousness could actually consciously publish something so blatantly racist and then follow that up by accusing everyone around them of bigotry.
I think.... this thread may not be quite as inflammatory in its opening remarks as the "Rabid Hyenas" one, but it's close.
On topic - I don't think maintaining 1.0a with a pariah policy/clause is going to be helpful. "We hereby disavow this previous version of the license that nevertheless has our name in the first sentence and can still be used to publish all manner of negative things against which we have no recourse" is unlikely to be all that attractive to WotC, and that was only one of the core goals Kyle Brink publicly laid out. They have no plans to keep 1.0a authorized/active, whether it is avowed or not.
So because I've just started posting, my opinions are less relevant than yours?
No. But ten hundred thousand million billion trillion banana-gorrillion random names I've never seen before showing up out of nowhere - literally nowhere - to attack me, my friends, my table, my game, and my hobby has a tendency to get my goat up. Especially when almost every single one of them is screaming at the tippiest-top of their lungs about how WIZARDS IS EVIL FOREVER and DEATH TO D&D and doing everything in their power to ensure I no longer have a D&D 5e to play by this time next year.
Have you considered that someone who has not previously engaged with the community but now feels the need to might actually have something important to say? That it might be noteworthy that recent events have disturbed them to the point where they feel their voice needs to be heard? That they might care enough about the game and the community to do something about it, even if you don't agree with their assessment?
I have indeed considered that. I've tried being reasonable in my attempts to call for calm. I've tried being a voice of reason. Nobody's listening to reason. It's R.I.O.T., all day every day, and if you're not a fellow rioter you're The Enemy. I've had people send me DMs accusing me of being a white supremacist because I've been on the side of less hateful content in D&D. I don't even know how that ****ing happened, but it did. I've had people personally attack me, deliberately misgender me specifically to piss me off, and tell me I don't deserve to play any tabletop game anymore, let alone just D&D.
If y'all are gonna keep treating anyone who isn't burning the house down as The Enemy, you're gonna get some people biting back. Sorry, but that's just the way it is with this subject.
Do you appreciate how patronising and dismissive your statement comes across to me?
Sorry about that. Can I ask if you've ever thought about how needlessly hostile and disruptive to the whole negotiation process all the "OGL 1.0a OR ****ING DEATH" posts we keep getting inundated by come off as to people trying to work with what we've got and make things the best they can be? 1.0a is dying. There's nothing we can do about that. But we can make 1.2 a better, more protective document for everybody involved.
If people will ****ing let us, instead of treating us like The Enemy and setting our panties on fire every time we try and get any actually productive discussion started.
So here. Use this thread as a hate sink. I'll be honest, I built it as one. Post in here, yell and rant and snap and snarl at me all you want and I will let you do that. IF, in return, you leavbe threads such as Constructive OGL Suggestionsthe hell alone and let us do whatever we can to make 1.2 a better deal for everybody.
Deal?
for the record, that happened in this thread, by a post that was reported and deleted. Just confirming that Yurei isn't talking out of their ass here.
Edit: spoilers used to hide text not relevant to this response
Not just in this thread I know me and a few others have also received nasty dms just cuz we don't agree with the ogl 1.0a or die crowd
I get we all might be heated by this stuff but can we please stop with the personal attacks especially ones as deeply offensive as that when the person literally just disagrees with you.
And before someone says "Well, you must've been rude first" I got one of those dms to a response to me literally saying "I disagree and this is why"
I get why yureis frustrated, it's almost like this place has become a crowd of pitchforks ready to poke everyone and it makes me lose hope at all seeing it
Oh, I know it's not going to happen. I'm just beyond sick of "OGL 1.0a OR DETH" diehards actively ruining every other attempt in the forum to constructively discuss 1.2. So here - a special thread devoted specifically to that shit and hopefully we can get less of it in actually useful threads.
You can try to turn those who think it was a mistake to deauthorize 1.0a into an angry mindless. It is a known resource that is used when there are no others. It's called ad hominem fallacy.
But I don't care. I am of the opinion that OGL 1.0a should not have been touched. I think that this is not being done for the benefit of the community. I think all this is tremendously negative. And I think the draft of 1.2 proves me right.
And no, I'm not an angry mindless. I am disappointed and worried. Sincerely concerned. No insult is going to change that, nor is it going to intimidate me.
IG, I don't think we get a choice. Sure, a parallel timeline where Wizards never tried this shit in the first place would have been ideal. At least, right up until somebody decided to **** Around with marketing hateful content and challenge Wizards to Find Out, but that's neither here nor there.
I truly, legitimately don't see a future where 1.0a remains. All the people who're saying "SURE FINE DO 1.2 BUT LEAVE 1.0a ALONE WHEN YOU DO" are missing the point. Wizards has decided it's time to plug the holes in 1.0a, especially since they're in the shit anyways and a lot of the creatives who do 5e content have jumped ship to Pathfinder already regardless. It'll be years before anyone makes new D&D content again, if they ever do, and Wizards is not going to eat that loss without something to show for it. They're just not, and we all know it.
I will cry and scream and rage at the bloody heavens if line-in-the-sand diehards ruin this for everyone else at the eleventh hour and cause Wizards to tell us all to **** off while they do whatever they please. Which is what so many of these people are trying to do. They're willing to watch D&D burn up and die rather than let Wizards apply any amount of brakes, and I'm not okay with that. It's not okay. I have shit I still want to do in this game, I'm not prepared to throw it all away and go spend a billion dollars on being Paizo's happy little *****. Not yet. And ideally not ever.
IG, I don't think we get a choice. Sure, a parallel timeline where Wizards never tried this shit in the first place would have been ideal. At least, right up until somebody decided to **** Around with marketing hateful content and challenge Wizards to Find Out, but that's neither here nor there.
I truly, legitimately don't see a future where 1.0a remains. All the people who're saying "SURE FINE DO 1.2 BUT LEAVE 1.0a ALONE WHEN YOU DO" are missing the point. Wizards has decided it's time to plug the holes in 1.0a, especially since they're in the shit anyways and a lot of the creatives who do 5e content have jumped ship to Pathfinder already regardless. It'll be years before anyone makes new D&D content again, if they ever do, and Wizards is not going to eat that loss without something to show for it. They're just not, and we all know it.
I will cry and scream and rage at the bloody heavens if line-in-the-sand diehards ruin this for everyone else at the eleventh hour and cause Wizards to tell us all to **** off while they do whatever they please. Which is what so many of these people are trying to do. They're willing to watch D&D burn up and die rather than let Wizards apply any amount of brakes, and I'm not okay with that. It's not okay. I have shit I still want to do in this game, I'm not prepared to throw it all away and go spend a billion dollars on being Paizo's happy little *****. Not yet. And ideally not ever.
[REDACTED] You have made so many more threads attacking people who are angry with what Wizards has done. You want to talk about mindless anger. From the posts I have seen from you, I gotta ask do you have stakes in the company or something? OGL 1.0a was not broken, did not had holes in it. It did not need to be fixed. What they have been doing is shady and going after things that had no reason to have such high stakes in. I do not even like VTT, I actually agree that all the super bells and whistles those things create make it feel more like a video game ;however, I am not going to let some company that is probably going to have all those same bell and whistles they are crapping on in their own damn version of a VTT because they want a monopoly on it. It is pure greed. They said it themselves back when the trailer for OneDnD came out "This isn't a new edition, in fact we don't want any editions anymore we want one dnd. " Biggest red flag. Going to say and continue to say it : WotC needs Us, we don't need them.
I do not want to see DnD fail... but I'm also not tied to the hip with it either. I play a large multitude of TTRPGs (I tend to be the GM for the Sci-Fi/Cyberpunkish games our table runs, while my buddy tends to run the fantasy ones).
That being said, for the most part, I have no issues with the new license other than some ambiguity in 6f (as has been hashed out in other threads). If they clean it up some so there are some clear lines for what is allowed and honestly it isn't a bad thing overall...
I do have one issue that would be an easy fix, it needs to include the SRDs for 3.0 and 3.5 in the license, IF they deauthorize it (which as has also been hashed out may not be legal for them to do, that is for the courts to decide based upon expectations, statements and intent and how contract law stood 20 years ago in its verbage...) it seems that anything done for 3/3.5 would also be deauthorized, as it stands currently.
...if one more person tells me to Just Play Pathfinder(C), I may start screaming and never stop. Goddamn Pathfinder is not 5e. I don't like 3.5e. And that means I do not like Pathfinder. The numbers bloat is absolutely ridiculous, the fiddliness of having dozens if not hundreds of distinct modifiers applying to every single roll is obnoxious and completely destroys pacing, and the system is far more hostile to highly versatile generalist Expert characters of the sort I deeply favor than 5e. You can't make an Arcane Trickster in Pathfinder, Pathfinder's ranger has no versatility or Expert-style features, and just in general I cannot make the sorts of characters I love to play in that system.
People who aren't me love it? Great. Cool. Paizo can be your superhero. Not everybody gets along with Pathfinder.
...if one more person tells me to Just Play Pathfinder(C), I may start screaming and never stop. Goddamn Pathfinder is not 5e. I don't like 3.5e. And that means I do not like Pathfinder. The numbers bloat is absolutely ****ing ridiculous, the fiddliness of having dozens if not hundreds of distinct modifiers applying to every single roll is obnoxious and completely destroys pacing, and the system is far more hostile to highly versatile generalist Expert characters of the sort I deeply favor than 5e. You can't make an Arcane Trickster in Pathfinder, Pathfinder's ranger has no versatility or Expert-style features, and just in general I cannot make the sorts of characters I love to play in that system.
People who aren't me love it? Great. Cool. Paizo can be your superhero. Not everybody gets along with ****ing Pathfinder.
I just checked - the only person in this entire thread to mention Pathfinder is you.
So far as I can see, no one suggested you play Pathfinder indirectly either.
You made some false statements about Paizo and relative access to digital tools, which were called out, but no one did the thing you're complaining about here. "The game" that was mentioned as a pronoun clearly referred to DnD 5e.
And D&D Beyond isn't going anywhere. There's literally zero threat to 5e you have to worry about - beyond the exodus of third party developers, which you should absolutely blame on Wizards of the Coast. Your ability to play it isn't going to be affected, if thats what you want.
My question for 1.0a die-hards is what about it they even like so much. Completely disregarding the issues with the proposed new versions, if there exists a hypothetical new and objectively better license, why should anyone care about deprecating 1.0a?
I'd counter that with another question:
If the new license is objectively better, why would you need to deprecate the previous one? Folks can just and are likely to choose the new one because it's better, not because you're telling them 'you have to'. (there is no requirement for them to 'deprecate' a previous version of the license in order to make a new one in the same respect that CC3.0-BY-NC getting updated to CC3.1-BY-NC doesn't 'require you to deprecate' CC3.0-NC. They're different licenses; you can just choose between them.)
e: Also I'll point out a lot of this is historical context. 1.0a was created so that the 'WE WILL SUE YOU' legacy of TSR could be dust-binned so that third party publishers would be willing to make content for WotC's D&D system and there's no way they would 'buy that they've turned over a new leaf' without something like the OGL being put up. By same respect, overturning that same license sends the very strong message of 'WE WILL SUE YOU --- AGAIN!'
This is an easy question: Because 1.0 gives racists and other bigots a shield.
1.2 is objectively better in every significant regard - it doesn’t look like it was written by a high school student pretending to be a lawyer, it clearly spells out what the terms mean, and it gives folks the ability to use one of Wizards’ very valuable trademarks to signify the content works with D&D.
But all the things that make it better legally make it worse if you want to take Wizards’ intellectual property and twist their property into something bigoted - all that ambiguity, all that amateur writing of 1.0 becomes your friend and could be enough to confuse the issue if you went before a Court.
Which is why Wizards doesn’t want it out there for anyone to accept and use moving forward - you don’t let people à la carte choose if they want “the bad option that makes things worse for everyone” instead of the current version.
NO. All Wotc had to do was give a public statement that racism product does not contain or reflect its views. So your shield statement is false.
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I’ve literally been off and on on this forum for a while. I’m not a consistent presence because half the time it sets itself on fire.
You still attacked people like me (avid 1.0a diehard) and stayed we were basically just supporting it for hatespeech and theft. I have no idea why in the world you think this makes your position defensible. You’re literally just antagonizing people who don’t agree with you here.
If it were just about bigoted racist things, they could literally just add those words into the 1.0a, I whole heartedly doubt the community would blink twice except maybe a tiny insignificant amount of people. To me I feel like the bigger uproar should be about wotc having folks give up thier right to a class action lawsuit or a jury selected trial because 2/3 of judges are corporate friendly judges even in the very blue Washington state. You folks think wotc won’t steal from the creators if they think it makes them money? I’d argue they are making plans and putting pieces in place to do it. Hell car companies sell dangerous onions all the time after they’ve done a risk assessment and decided they’d make a certain amount more than they’d lose. Also VTT does it seriously mean it’s a video game just because you cast fireball and a fireball shoots across the screen? Or magic missile make a missile with glitter go off? Seriously that’s like telling magicians not to use smoke and mirrors or any special efffects because it’s not magic anymore if they do, like bro it’s just added flare to the entertainment.
they can't though, because the language of the 1.0a says that if multiple versions of itself come into existence, then a user can use any of them. Basically, if they did this, any bad actor could still use the original version without the edit with no recourse from WotC despite the potential for liability/reputational harm falling significantly on them
I don't disagree with your points here, and that is why i noted in my survey response that greater clarity on what they mean by this is needed in the VTT policy.
So because I've just started posting, my opinions are less relevant than yours?
Have you considered that someone who has not previously engaged with the community but now feels the need to might actually have something important to say? That it might be noteworthy that recent events have disturbed them to the point where they feel their voice needs to be heard? That they might care enough about the game and the community to do something about it, even if you don't agree with their assessment?
Do you appreciate how patronising and dismissive your statement comes across to me?
No. But ten hundred thousand million billion trillion banana-gorrillion random names I've never seen before showing up out of nowhere - literally nowhere - to attack me, my friends, my table, my game, and my hobby has a tendency to get my goat up. Especially when almost every single one of them is screaming at the tippiest-top of their lungs about how WIZARDS IS EVIL FOREVER and DEATH TO D&D and doing everything in their power to ensure I no longer have a D&D 5e to play by this time next year.
I have indeed considered that. I've tried being reasonable in my attempts to call for calm. I've tried being a voice of reason. Nobody's listening to reason. It's R.I.O.T., all day every day, and if you're not a fellow rioter you're The Enemy. I've had people send me DMs accusing me of being a white supremacist because I've been on the side of less hateful content in D&D. I don't even know how that ******* happened, but it did. I've had people personally attack me, deliberately misgender me specifically to piss me off, and tell me I don't deserve to play any tabletop game anymore, let alone just D&D.
If y'all are gonna keep treating anyone who isn't burning the house down as The Enemy, you're gonna get some people biting back. Sorry, but that's just the way it is with this subject.
Sorry about that. Can I ask if you've ever thought about how needlessly hostile and disruptive to the whole negotiation process all the "OGL 1.0a OR ******* DEATH" posts we keep getting inundated by come off as to people trying to work with what we've got and make things the best they can be? 1.0a is dying. There's nothing we can do about that. But we can make 1.2 a better, more protective document for everybody involved.
If people will ******* let us, instead of treating us like The Enemy and setting our panties on fire every time we try and get any actually productive discussion started.
So here. Use this thread as a hate sink. I'll be honest, I built it as one. Post in here, yell and rant and snap and snarl at me all you want and I will let you do that. IF, in return, you leavbe threads such as Constructive OGL Suggestions the hell alone and let us do whatever we can to make 1.2 a better deal for everybody.
Deal?
Please do not contact or message me.
You don't start a conversation or dialogue like that and expect feedback as your not establishing it in good faith.
There is no argument that WOTC can make their new license and do what ever for 6e.
They CANNOT HOWEVER revoke, de-auth, or rescind 1.0a as it isn't within the powers afforded to them for any content that is using the 1.0a OGL. They can make new versions, they can do what ever, but they cannot back out of agreement already established.
They actually did this already with 4e. They came back to it with 5e. If they want they can go away for 6e, but they have to honor the established agreements. Otherwise it will bring pain (legal, monetarily, trust, etc.).
for the record, that happened in this thread, by a post that was reported and deleted. Just confirming that Yurei isn't talking out of their ass here.
Edit: spoilers used to hide text not relevant to this response
Gotta love how much you've got loaded into that first sentence. Based on the amount of flawed and biased presumptions baked into the question my answer would be no. This doesn't sound like a place where I'll find someone who's honestly seeking discussion.
I've seen several analysis that disagree here, and until it goes to court, no one can say for sure. I'm going with they can, as the document does not say it is irrevocable.
No offense but the most racist and hateful content published and actions taken for D&D in the last 20 years came directly FROM Wizards of the Coasts, not from the 3rd party community. I mean I don't know how you could possibly defend a company that published things like Spelljammer and Radiant Citadel, two of the most bigoted things I have ever read in an RPG in quite literally decades.
I will grant you WotC at least partially acknowledged how awful this content was, but to this day I can't get over how a company in the 21st century proclaiming so much righteousness could actually consciously publish something so blatantly racist and then follow that up by accusing everyone around them of bigotry.
Talk about throwing stones in a glass house.
I think.... this thread may not be quite as inflammatory in its opening remarks as the "Rabid Hyenas" one, but it's close.
On topic - I don't think maintaining 1.0a with a pariah policy/clause is going to be helpful. "We hereby disavow this previous version of the license that nevertheless has our name in the first sentence and can still be used to publish all manner of negative things against which we have no recourse" is unlikely to be all that attractive to WotC, and that was only one of the core goals Kyle Brink publicly laid out. They have no plans to keep 1.0a authorized/active, whether it is avowed or not.
Not just in this thread I know me and a few others have also received nasty dms just cuz we don't agree with the ogl 1.0a or die crowd
I get we all might be heated by this stuff but can we please stop with the personal attacks especially ones as deeply offensive as that when the person literally just disagrees with you.
And before someone says "Well, you must've been rude first" I got one of those dms to a response to me literally saying "I disagree and this is why"
I get why yureis frustrated, it's almost like this place has become a crowd of pitchforks ready to poke everyone and it makes me lose hope at all seeing it
Oh, I know it's not going to happen. I'm just beyond sick of "OGL 1.0a OR DETH" diehards actively ruining every other attempt in the forum to constructively discuss 1.2. So here - a special thread devoted specifically to that shit and hopefully we can get less of it in actually useful threads.
Please do not contact or message me.
You can try to turn those who think it was a mistake to deauthorize 1.0a into an angry mindless. It is a known resource that is used when there are no others. It's called ad hominem fallacy.
But I don't care. I am of the opinion that OGL 1.0a should not have been touched. I think that this is not being done for the benefit of the community. I think all this is tremendously negative. And I think the draft of 1.2 proves me right.
And no, I'm not an angry mindless. I am disappointed and worried. Sincerely concerned. No insult is going to change that, nor is it going to intimidate me.
IG, I don't think we get a choice. Sure, a parallel timeline where Wizards never tried this shit in the first place would have been ideal. At least, right up until somebody decided to **** Around with marketing hateful content and challenge Wizards to Find Out, but that's neither here nor there.
I truly, legitimately don't see a future where 1.0a remains. All the people who're saying "SURE FINE DO 1.2 BUT LEAVE 1.0a ALONE WHEN YOU DO" are missing the point. Wizards has decided it's time to plug the holes in 1.0a, especially since they're in the shit anyways and a lot of the creatives who do 5e content have jumped ship to Pathfinder already regardless. It'll be years before anyone makes new D&D content again, if they ever do, and Wizards is not going to eat that loss without something to show for it. They're just not, and we all know it.
I will cry and scream and rage at the bloody heavens if line-in-the-sand diehards ruin this for everyone else at the eleventh hour and cause Wizards to tell us all to **** off while they do whatever they please. Which is what so many of these people are trying to do. They're willing to watch D&D burn up and die rather than let Wizards apply any amount of brakes, and I'm not okay with that. It's not okay. I have shit I still want to do in this game, I'm not prepared to throw it all away and go spend a billion dollars on being Paizo's happy little *****. Not yet. And ideally not ever.
Please do not contact or message me.
[REDACTED] You have made so many more threads attacking people who are angry with what Wizards has done. You want to talk about mindless anger. From the posts I have seen from you, I gotta ask do you have stakes in the company or something? OGL 1.0a was not broken, did not had holes in it. It did not need to be fixed. What they have been doing is shady and going after things that had no reason to have such high stakes in. I do not even like VTT, I actually agree that all the super bells and whistles those things create make it feel more like a video game ;however, I am not going to let some company that is probably going to have all those same bell and whistles they are crapping on in their own damn version of a VTT because they want a monopoly on it. It is pure greed. They said it themselves back when the trailer for OneDnD came out "This isn't a new edition, in fact we don't want any editions anymore we want one dnd. " Biggest red flag. Going to say and continue to say it : WotC needs Us, we don't need them.
I do not want to see DnD fail... but I'm also not tied to the hip with it either. I play a large multitude of TTRPGs (I tend to be the GM for the Sci-Fi/Cyberpunkish games our table runs, while my buddy tends to run the fantasy ones).
That being said, for the most part, I have no issues with the new license other than some ambiguity in 6f (as has been hashed out in other threads). If they clean it up some so there are some clear lines for what is allowed and honestly it isn't a bad thing overall...
I do have one issue that would be an easy fix, it needs to include the SRDs for 3.0 and 3.5 in the license, IF they deauthorize it (which as has also been hashed out may not be legal for them to do, that is for the courts to decide based upon expectations, statements and intent and how contract law stood 20 years ago in its verbage...) it seems that anything done for 3/3.5 would also be deauthorized, as it stands currently.
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...if one more person tells me to Just Play Pathfinder(C), I may start screaming and never stop. Goddamn Pathfinder is not 5e. I don't like 3.5e. And that means I do not like Pathfinder. The numbers bloat is absolutely ridiculous, the fiddliness of having dozens if not hundreds of distinct modifiers applying to every single roll is obnoxious and completely destroys pacing, and the system is far more hostile to highly versatile generalist Expert characters of the sort I deeply favor than 5e. You can't make an Arcane Trickster in Pathfinder, Pathfinder's ranger has no versatility or Expert-style features, and just in general I cannot make the sorts of characters I love to play in that system.
People who aren't me love it? Great. Cool. Paizo can be your superhero. Not everybody gets along with Pathfinder.
Please do not contact or message me.
I just checked - the only person in this entire thread to mention Pathfinder is you.
So far as I can see, no one suggested you play Pathfinder indirectly either.
You made some false statements about Paizo and relative access to digital tools, which were called out, but no one did the thing you're complaining about here. "The game" that was mentioned as a pronoun clearly referred to DnD 5e.
And D&D Beyond isn't going anywhere. There's literally zero threat to 5e you have to worry about - beyond the exodus of third party developers, which you should absolutely blame on Wizards of the Coast. Your ability to play it isn't going to be affected, if thats what you want.
NO. All Wotc had to do was give a public statement that racism product does not contain or reflect its views. So your shield statement is false.
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.