Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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And what are those new options? People keep talking about new rules as if you cannot mix and match with the old, like it is an either/or type of thing when it is not. In fact, you can often run multiple rules at the SAME time. Just because they are new does not mean you have to use them. Hell, I am pretty sure there is a table out there with one player running around with the original orc with a negative Int penalty while another player uses the newest version of the orc.
There is literally nothing stopping one player from using heroic rest while another player uses gritty realism rest in the same campaign in the same session. Many options that people think of that applies to everyone in the party can actually be applied individually. Just as not every player has to keep track of encumberance, not every player has to use critical failures either in the UA.
I do not think anyone can name any rule (Legacy, current, UA, or otherwise) that you cannot run multiple variants of it at the same time. It could potentially be a hassle, sure, but it is not impossible. And honestly, the hassle can even be offloaded to the players. Just because a player likes to keep track of encumberance and lifestyle expense does not mean the GM has to keep track of it with them either. If a player likes to use critical failure, they can choose to give themselves a penalty when they role a 1.
I do not see it as replacement. Yes, the UA tells you to replace whatever rules are in the original PHB with the UA ones for feed back purposes, but if you are having fun with it rather than play testing, you do NOT have to replace anything. You can run both rules side by side at the same time if you want to.
Legacy is for rules that are no longer being supported, but that does not mean you cannot use them in conjunction with new rules.
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Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
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Tooltips Post (2024 PHB updates) - incl. General Rules
>> New FOW threat & treasure tables: fow-advanced-threat-tables.pdf fow-advanced-treasure-table.pdf
I'm bringing this thread back because I changed my mind after the last UA. Let me explain: I was of the opinion that i would switch to new edition. And not just me, but that most would switch the edition, even those who said no.
However, as the latest UA has been taken steps backwards, myself and my various playgroups are starting to think there's no reason to switch. Switch to what, if it's the same edition? Why are we going to buy some books that we already have, and that the only thing that they are going to contribute is a little makeup here and there?
I understand that many people complained that the new edition did not seem like it could be compatible with much of the published material. And that is why they are backing down in many aspects, because otherwise it's impossible to make it compatible. But then, if the changes are not important, why would someone who already has them buy the books?
What do you think? Has the last UA modified your position in one way or another?
At the moment, it's sit this one out. I don't like some of the changes I've seen game technically wise, like the changes to the Paladin and the Warlock. And those are the two classes I play most, so... Thanks but no, thanks.
I have to be honest, I haven't liked the vast majority of the changes that I've seen for it. I do like the changes to the Warlock, and a few other things here and there, but over-all, I don't like the direction they are taking.
Some things definitely need to be 'fixed', but they don't seem to be addressing those - like multi-classing. Multi-classing in 5e is too easy, and gives too much benefit. No one wants to play single-classed characters because multi-classed characters can inflict 3x the damage of a single-classed character (or more). Getting kind of tired of mages running around in plate armor, and everyone else casting Shield and getting sneak attack, all thanks to multi-classing. Almost everyone now takes a 2-3 level dip into something else, because the benefits of doing so greatly outweigh the drawbacks. Who cares if your highest level spell is 1 level lower than it could have been if doing so allows you to combine Weapon + hex-like ability or spell + sneak attack + smite + channel divinity once a round for several rounds (instead of having access to a single spell of one higher level).
Fighters could have been improved by giving all fighters the maneuvers of the Battlemaster in addition to whatever other choice they make at 3rd level. Instead they're adding weapon mastery which is just going to make combat even more complicated. Large battles are complicated enough now everyone (with mastery) is going to get the ability to use even more abilities to further complicate the battlefield.
I thought they learned their lesson with 4e, this isn't a video game. Combats should not be a random mix of button mashing abilities (every class doesn't need a 'power source' and magical abilities).
A few tweaks to 5e would have been better than all the changes they are putting forth - and I don't believe for a second that it's backwards compatible. Someone playing legacy content will be underpowered compared to someone using the new content within the same group.
I'll of course take a look at whatever they put forth, but I am on record with the belief that this is going to be another 4e situation (where most of those playing the game try to pretend it doesn't exist); but with DnD Beyond, I don't see how that will be possible. They will likely force the change on everyone whether we want it or not (and that will cause players to leave the game).
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (original Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
If I have one major gripe with 5E, it's this: everyone's a spellcaster. Everyone. There are umpteen versions of the healing class. There's a real lack of flavor and "tone" to most of the classes. I get that this is both a strength and weakness of 5E: it's eminently customizable but also broadly based so as to appeal to the widest audience possible.
I've been toying with creating very low magic/no magic versions of the barbarian, fighter, monk, paladin, ranger, and rogue. I think the core mechanics of 5E allow for a great deal of creativity and customization that's not reliant on giving everyone standard spellcasting abilities.
I’m personally hoping that a very large portion of the site’s paying users don’t just jump over, it might encourage WotC to be respectful in the way it treats us OG 5e users with regards to Tools and Materials. Personally feel they should just admit this is a new edition and make section of pages for it on the site.
They'll do what they always do with UA: push out some popular changes in the playtest, get feedback, and then inexplicably publish final versions that are missing the popular stuff and have added entirely new, untested stuff.
I used to have confidence that Wizards understood D&D and was on the same page as players for the most part. I don't feel that way anymore. These days it feels more like their rules are being made in a dark room, locked away from the world, by a madman, while Jeremy Crawford and the rest are just spin doctors trying to convince us that this isn't the case.
Or, in less provocative terms, I think they've lost the magic.
But even ignoring that, I don't think this feats-forward, lore-agnostic evolution is something I'm after. I get my fill of "builds" from video games and trading card games. I appreciate a pinch of it for flavor in my cooperative tabletops, but it's not the core appeal for me. Base 5e used to minimize this aspect by design, but it has broken down more and more over time, and 6e looks like it's gonna begin even further along the spectrum than where 5e is ending.
I agree. My intention is to move to an OSR game whenever I'm given the chance. Going back to core 5e doesn't really seem to be an option.
Won't switch to 6e, 1D&D, 5.5e, or whatever it's being referred to as these days. Have sadly lost all faith in Wizards as a competent IP owner and will sit it out in hopes that one day things improve. It's been a good motivation to spend more time playing other systems again, including older versions of D&D, so silver linings and all. Also concerned that use of this site as far as 5e is concerned will be adversely impacted when the new rules drop, which is a real shame as this is by far and above the best tool for character management I'm currently aware of. Hoping for the best but planning for the worst, so to speak.
100 percent agree with all of that.
INSPIRATIONS: Clark Ashton Smith, Mervyn Peake, Jack Vance, Michael Moorcock, Fritz Leiber, M. John Harrison, Gene Wolfe, Steven Brust, Terry Pratchett, China Miéville.
SYSTEMS: ShadowDark, C&C, AD&D.
GEAR: pencils, graph paper, dice.
Maybe I'm going a bit off-topic, but I think they're missing the point. I understand that they are afraid that many people will avoid the new edition if it is not compatible. But what they seem to be doing now is very dangerous as well.
If old and new are compatible, many potential buyers may simply argue that they don't need to buy books they already have.
On the other hand, not introducing significant changes to the new edition is perhaps a short-term benefit, since you avoid being accused of "killing" the old, but it's a big problem in the long-term. Not doing a fresh start means dragging the problems that 5e already loads. And, in addition, you do not avoid the mechanical fatigue that many players already have.
I liked, with some reservations, what I had seen in the previous UAs. I would have preferred a new edition, but at least that 5.5 that they proposed seemed to extend the life of the game. But what was seen in the last UA is very hopeless. That certainly, as Jeremy Crawdford had already announced, is not a new edition. It's not a 5.5 either. It's a new Tasha in core books format, and not at all what I expected. There is no fresh start. It doesn't fix the problems in 5e, and actually aggravates some of the ones I already had. We will have to see the final publication, but right now it does not seem to justify investing in the new books. And I am afraid that it is quite possible that in the long run it will lose veteran players, who are already dragging a mechanical fatigue that the new books are not going to cure.
Not that we can be certain the results of this poll indicate how most in the community think and feel about "the upgrade" but if they do I'd say 2024 is going to be a year of catastrophic embarrassment for WOTC.
No system is perfect but I get the impression too many believe 5e ain't broke and don't need fixing. I know a lot of people who came back to the brand because of 5e who are turning their noses up at the idea of "an upgrade." The way they see it homebrewing suffices when it comes to ironing out any problems.
INSPIRATIONS: Clark Ashton Smith, Mervyn Peake, Jack Vance, Michael Moorcock, Fritz Leiber, M. John Harrison, Gene Wolfe, Steven Brust, Terry Pratchett, China Miéville.
SYSTEMS: ShadowDark, C&C, AD&D.
GEAR: pencils, graph paper, dice.
Even if everything is backwards compatible I'm still on the fence - whilst I'm not sure I'll be picking up the new 'Core' books straight away, it may be case for me of choosing which Classes have improved and trying to get those a la carte on D&D Beyond (e.g. Fighter looks really improved, Warlock needs revision). Of course, that depends on what the final version will be.
#Open D&D
Have the Physical Books? Confused as to why you're not allowed to redeem them for free on D&D Beyond? Questions answered here at the Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You FAQ
Looking to add mouse-over triggered tooltips to such things like magic items, monsters or combat actions? Then dash over to the How to Add Tooltips thread.
Yeah, I kinda like the Warlock the way it is but I might be willing to at least look at the new version. And solid point on being able to purchase pieces of the books (if that’s really an option).
Pretty sure piecemeal purchasing will continue with the new books, I see no reason for them to stop that. If anything, I'd expect to see more things like subclasses, spells, etc. available that don't even appear in books.
I'm also curious whether the new core classes will be released to DDB users similar to the 5e free basic rules. Folks on the fence would have that as a vehicle to try out the revisions before committing to core book or smaller purchases.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
This is what I'm hoping. The one issue I'm currently having is the '5.5' Monk base class is awful, the '5.5' Shadow Monk is massively improved. I'm hoping that, if things remain backwards compatible, I could theoretically buy the '5.5' Subclass but not buy the '5.5' Base Class (or vice versa). Of course, nothing has been finalised yet as everything is still being play tested, but I wonder if players will be allowed that level of freedom once the new books are released.
#Open D&D
Have the Physical Books? Confused as to why you're not allowed to redeem them for free on D&D Beyond? Questions answered here at the Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You FAQ
Looking to add mouse-over triggered tooltips to such things like magic items, monsters or combat actions? Then dash over to the How to Add Tooltips thread.
Don't you think that's shooting yourself in the foot? For WoTC I mean. If you can buy only the classes that interest you, the books are not going to sell well. Except for collectors who want to have everything that is published, and new players, most will only acquire the bits they need. That can make book sales a flop.
It is increasingly clear to me that this strategy of making it "compatible" is short-term gain, long-term pain. But we'll see.
That’s what this site has been doing for years though. Heck, they give away the base classes for free (save artificer) in the srd. Then people can buy individual subclasses and races. Seems like they’re doing pretty well with this model.
It's not the same.
The physical books for 5e had been available for a few years before D&D Beyond's existence. I think it's safe to say many would have bought the physical books early on but then only paid for what they wanted digitally for use here if they thought some of the classes were hit and miss.
But it's only now we are seeing this sentiment directed at planned changes to existing classes because it's only now they are updating the books. How well that model might have served them up to this point in time is going to be moot come 2024.
It's only been since 2020—six years into what will have been the ten year existence of the current edition—since D&D Beyond has been enjoying the numbers it now does. Most players still don't play here. So whatever their model might be here that's not going to help them avoid the embarrassment of hordes of players not buying the physical books and their experiencing a sizeable drop in sales compared to those they have seen for the 5e books.
Anyone buying things piecemeal here probably owns the books already and feels they needn't pay for everything here and only needs to pay for what they need to run their games. They are but a subset of the playerbase.
We are experiencing an update. That's quite the event. If enough people don't buy the physical editions of that update because they just don't think it's worth it WOTC are going to feel that.
Perhaps the results of this poll are off. But if they're not it's not looking good for them.
Many who are even often critical of WOTC believe they were onto not just a good thing but a great thing with 5e—it brought in so many new players and brought back so many old players—but many also believe this update is unwarranted.
Not entirely unrelated to this is they have just announced they will no longer sell just the physical books from the official shop. If you're buying direct you will need to pay for the bundle providing you access to what you've paid for here. So that's already players who don't play here and who have no intention of playing here who will stop shopping direct. I think they are so invested in making Beyond "the hub of the hobby" and in their virtual table-top they have lost sight of things.
INSPIRATIONS: Clark Ashton Smith, Mervyn Peake, Jack Vance, Michael Moorcock, Fritz Leiber, M. John Harrison, Gene Wolfe, Steven Brust, Terry Pratchett, China Miéville.
SYSTEMS: ShadowDark, C&C, AD&D.
GEAR: pencils, graph paper, dice.