Maps is actually a perfect example of what's going wrong here.
I won't say that it's a direct clone, but everything from the UI layout to the exact features makes it very clear that Maps is essentially just copying Roll20's homework. And I'm absolutely certain that's not because the people actually working on it are too lazy to be original.
I'm fairly confident that things are this way because someone higher up the chain was informed that Roll20 is the single most popular VTT (and it is. Foundry is arguably better but the ~$50 initial buy-in keeps it from taking top spot) and instead of trying to find out why that is and how to compete with that with the advantages WotC has, they just went 'make us something that does that' to the Maps team.
And the reason that doesn't work is that Roll20 is the way it is because it's designed to offer free, basic support for as wide an array of games as possible.
And... Here's where we're getting in the weeds a little... There's a good chance Maps is 'copying' Roll20 because there's a strategy of actively trying to drive Roll20 out of the D&D market. If you've paid attention to the VTT sphere, you'll have noticed that at the start of 2024 Foundry entered into a 'partnership' with WotC that basically meant the people at Foundry got access to 5.5e (or '5e 2024' if you prefer) content early so that they could offer support for it the moment it officially came out in exchange for deprecating support for 5e (or '5e 2014/classic'). Oh sure, they dressed it up nicely, claiming they were halting work on improving 5e support so they could be ready to add support for 5.5e content the moment it came out, but anyone who thinks about it for even a second would realise that having a team halt work and sit their twiddling their thumbs in January for content that's coming out in June doesn't actually make them more prepared. But the excuse they gave was nicer than We're cooperating with WotC to make support for 5e ever so slightly worse, as part of their continued efforts to get as many people as possible to switch over to 5.5e so they have to buy all new books"".
And then compare that with Roll20 committing at around the same time to offer equal support for 5e and 5.5e and leaving the decision on what to play to the players themselves.
So yeah, it may be telling that Maps, despite only having to support D&D, copies features that Roll20 has because it's trying to support as many games as possible. Roll20 has a basic fog of war system for revealing the map and determining what players can see (and a dynamic lighting system that, when I tested it when I was looking for potential VTTs to replace my group's current one, should that become necessary, doesn't affect visibility at all). Foundry has a lighting system that (if you're using the D&D modules) automatically adjusts visibility, taking darkvision into account. Maps copies the former, despite the fact that having something like the latter would instantly give it a leg up over Roll20 for people playing D&D.
Maps copies Roll20 (and for the most is playing perpetual catch up in terms of when features are implemented). It might be because someone up the chain in WotC/Hasbro is just so myopic that they can't look beyond Roll20 being the biggest and think just blatantly copying that but having their brand attached will let them out-compete it (that would be in line with what Hasbro has done with many of its toy and board game lines for decades) or whether it's a more complicated strategy to try and reduce Roll20's market share as 'punishment' for not playing ball on WotC's strategy to try and get people to switch from 5e to 5.5e without incurring massive reputation loss by making support for 5e gradually worse instead of ceasing support immediately... But what's obvious is that Maps is meant to compete directly with Roll20 and it's the worst choice of which VTT to compete with possible.
And it makes me wonder which existing VTT Sigil is meant to be a copy of/direct competitor to.
I was originally going to use the quote feature, but I think someone went "Why are you quoting posts all the time?" and I didn't want any of that here.
I will say though that the reply feature is useless if it doesn't let others know who I'm replying to.
I was originally going to use the quote feature, but I think someone went "Why are you quoting posts all the time?" and I didn't want any of that here.
I will say though that the reply feature is useless if it doesn't let others know who I'm replying to.
Believe the reply feature only lets that individual know due to the "Re:" at the beginning of the notification, others just get a normal notification.
As for quoting - think they only get annoyed if quoting ever increasing quote chains (could be wrong though)
How do you uninstall this software? It does not appear on my add remove programs list.
I don't believe the install does anything on your computer (like registry entries or anything). So you can just go to the installation folder and delete the files.
The Sigil project is basically dead. They fired most of the staff, the system requirements to run it are way to high (which prices out most of their potential user base), and it is the most complicated to use of all the VTTs i've looked at.
What started as a great idea, an in-house VTT to leverage WoTC & DnD Beyonds existing resources suffered from mission creep and ... well... they bit off way more than they could chew.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (original Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
I didn't think constructing the maps was that hard to be honest, if you were just going with basic stuff. Not like you had to make a work of art with a 2D map-making tool either; I didn't find it that much more time-consuming to just lay down floors and walls to construct a basic 'dungeon'. You could put in as much detail afterwards as you wanted.
My biggest issue was that they didn't really know what they wanted Sigil to actually be. Its like they started off as a map tool and someone higher up pushed them to make it work like a 'video game' and it ended up being neither!
That is, the players had to import their characters into Sigil and use everything in there, where you ended up with some horrendous interface where you couldn't even see what features or inventory your character had (everything was tidy identical icons). And when they attacked or whatever, Sigil tried to do everything for you like a video game. Which just...didn't work. Because it's supposed to be a map tool that enhances the basic playing of a table-top RPG. There was no way for me - the DM - to decide the outcome of a dice roll or adjust for cover etc etc. At one point, while we were beta testing, a player tried to use a cone spell (Burning Hands I think) and we just couldn't get it to damage a monster in range due to a slope! And I had no was to simply apply the damage myself.
It was basically unusable for what it was supposed to be.
Unfortunately, Hasbro chose to invest more in hiring people to make a whole new program from scratch instead of partner with somebody who already had a VTT up and running Instead Of hiring creatives to create new ideas for campaign settings and subclasses. Not to mention the leadership was at odds with itself about it despite investing years and millions of dollars.
Unfortunately, Hasbro chose to invest more in hiring people to make a whole new program from scratch instead of partner with somebody who already had a VTT up and running and hiring creatives to create new ideas for campaign settings and subclasses. Not to mention the leadership was at odds with itself about it despite invest years and millions of dollars.
Well, that's the irony. Larian helps WotC makes millions of dollars, but now Larian doesn't want to work with WotC anymore b/c WotC fired a huge number of the WotC staff that worked so well with Larian to make BG3 happen. And just before Christmas, to boot! Short-sighted profit gains at the cost of long-term damage to both profits and reputation. "Now let's take a moment to pray to our shareholders."
I just tested out Sigil and frankly I was amazed. It looks incredible. So much of it is ready to use, it just needs more content. I hope it's not really dead. It has incredible potential.
I just tested out Sigil and frankly I was amazed. It looks incredible. So much of it is ready to use, it just needs more content. I hope it's not really dead. It has incredible potential.
Its not dead, news are usually on the official Sigil discord. There is also a Sigil Architects Discord where a lot of fan made maps can be seen and you can import those. Along with helpul advice for building maps.
You know, despite what was said to be going against it, I was still hoping it would become the program it set out to be.
I liked the idea of an official digital version of the tabletop game using 3D models, especially if it meant you could make your own Baldur's Gate style campaigns across the web. Sadly it was cut short before it could be anywhere on par with Talespire, RPG Stories or other VTT programs, which really sucks in my opinion because the graphics in Sigil were amazing, and I wanted an official DnD VTT that allowed players to visualize their experiences to their fullest potential without making the Tabletop experience too expensive.
While they've given up on Sigil, I just hope they use this as a learning experience to make something even better. For now, I think we should stick with other VTTs.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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Maps is actually a perfect example of what's going wrong here.
I won't say that it's a direct clone, but everything from the UI layout to the exact features makes it very clear that Maps is essentially just copying Roll20's homework. And I'm absolutely certain that's not because the people actually working on it are too lazy to be original.
I'm fairly confident that things are this way because someone higher up the chain was informed that Roll20 is the single most popular VTT (and it is. Foundry is arguably better but the ~$50 initial buy-in keeps it from taking top spot) and instead of trying to find out why that is and how to compete with that with the advantages WotC has, they just went 'make us something that does that' to the Maps team.
And the reason that doesn't work is that Roll20 is the way it is because it's designed to offer free, basic support for as wide an array of games as possible.
And... Here's where we're getting in the weeds a little... There's a good chance Maps is 'copying' Roll20 because there's a strategy of actively trying to drive Roll20 out of the D&D market.
If you've paid attention to the VTT sphere, you'll have noticed that at the start of 2024 Foundry entered into a 'partnership' with WotC that basically meant the people at Foundry got access to 5.5e (or '5e 2024' if you prefer) content early so that they could offer support for it the moment it officially came out in exchange for deprecating support for 5e (or '5e 2014/classic').
Oh sure, they dressed it up nicely, claiming they were halting work on improving 5e support so they could be ready to add support for 5.5e content the moment it came out, but anyone who thinks about it for even a second would realise that having a team halt work and sit their twiddling their thumbs in January for content that's coming out in June doesn't actually make them more prepared. But the excuse they gave was nicer than We're cooperating with WotC to make support for 5e ever so slightly worse, as part of their continued efforts to get as many people as possible to switch over to 5.5e so they have to buy all new books"".
And then compare that with Roll20 committing at around the same time to offer equal support for 5e and 5.5e and leaving the decision on what to play to the players themselves.
So yeah, it may be telling that Maps, despite only having to support D&D, copies features that Roll20 has because it's trying to support as many games as possible. Roll20 has a basic fog of war system for revealing the map and determining what players can see (and a dynamic lighting system that, when I tested it when I was looking for potential VTTs to replace my group's current one, should that become necessary, doesn't affect visibility at all). Foundry has a lighting system that (if you're using the D&D modules) automatically adjusts visibility, taking darkvision into account. Maps copies the former, despite the fact that having something like the latter would instantly give it a leg up over Roll20 for people playing D&D.
Maps copies Roll20 (and for the most is playing perpetual catch up in terms of when features are implemented). It might be because someone up the chain in WotC/Hasbro is just so myopic that they can't look beyond Roll20 being the biggest and think just blatantly copying that but having their brand attached will let them out-compete it (that would be in line with what Hasbro has done with many of its toy and board game lines for decades) or whether it's a more complicated strategy to try and reduce Roll20's market share as 'punishment' for not playing ball on WotC's strategy to try and get people to switch from 5e to 5.5e without incurring massive reputation loss by making support for 5e gradually worse instead of ceasing support immediately...
But what's obvious is that Maps is meant to compete directly with Roll20 and it's the worst choice of which VTT to compete with possible.
And it makes me wonder which existing VTT Sigil is meant to be a copy of/direct competitor to.
Roll20 wasn't the first that did this stuff, they were just the most successful. they took insperation from other companies as well.
Paradox_Traveler.
They've been shooting me in the foot.
I was originally going to use the quote feature, but I think someone went "Why are you quoting posts all the time?" and I didn't want any of that here.
I will say though that the reply feature is useless if it doesn't let others know who I'm replying to.
Believe the reply feature only lets that individual know due to the "Re:" at the beginning of the notification, others just get a normal notification.
As for quoting - think they only get annoyed if quoting ever increasing quote chains (could be wrong though)
How do you uninstall this software? It does not appear on my add remove programs list.
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
I don't believe the install does anything on your computer (like registry entries or anything). So you can just go to the installation folder and delete the files.
Looks like Sigil is still getting updates. I look forward to seeing what they end up doing with it.
YES!!!
Thank you! I've been wanting these features for a long time. Hopefully they'll keep this going because I want this to be as good as a VTT can be.
I just looked into Sigil. Downloaded it. Opened it. Saw one demo “map” aka a tavern… and that was it.
I’m running Strahd. Can you imagine making just one of those maps in this thing. It would take weeks. Making ravenloft would be months.
Maybe someday when the maps for the modules you own are in there I’ll consider it but this is a very hard pass. Deleted it.
The Sigil project is basically dead. They fired most of the staff, the system requirements to run it are way to high (which prices out most of their potential user base), and it is the most complicated to use of all the VTTs i've looked at.
What started as a great idea, an in-house VTT to leverage WoTC & DnD Beyonds existing resources suffered from mission creep and ... well... they bit off way more than they could chew.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (original Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
I didn't think constructing the maps was that hard to be honest, if you were just going with basic stuff. Not like you had to make a work of art with a 2D map-making tool either; I didn't find it that much more time-consuming to just lay down floors and walls to construct a basic 'dungeon'. You could put in as much detail afterwards as you wanted.
My biggest issue was that they didn't really know what they wanted Sigil to actually be. Its like they started off as a map tool and someone higher up pushed them to make it work like a 'video game' and it ended up being neither!
That is, the players had to import their characters into Sigil and use everything in there, where you ended up with some horrendous interface where you couldn't even see what features or inventory your character had (everything was tidy identical icons). And when they attacked or whatever, Sigil tried to do everything for you like a video game. Which just...didn't work. Because it's supposed to be a map tool that enhances the basic playing of a table-top RPG. There was no way for me - the DM - to decide the outcome of a dice roll or adjust for cover etc etc. At one point, while we were beta testing, a player tried to use a cone spell (Burning Hands I think) and we just couldn't get it to damage a monster in range due to a slope! And I had no was to simply apply the damage myself.
It was basically unusable for what it was supposed to be.
Unfortunately, Hasbro chose to invest more in hiring people to make a whole new program from scratch instead of partner with somebody who already had a VTT up and running Instead Of hiring creatives to create new ideas for campaign settings and subclasses. Not to mention the leadership was at odds with itself about it despite investing years and millions of dollars.
Well, at least they still have Baldur's Gate 3.
https://www.ign.com/articles/larian-studios-wont-make-baldurs-gate-3-dlc-expansions-or-baldurs-gate-4
Well, that's the irony. Larian helps WotC makes millions of dollars, but now Larian doesn't want to work with WotC anymore b/c WotC fired a huge number of the WotC staff that worked so well with Larian to make BG3 happen. And just before Christmas, to boot! Short-sighted profit gains at the cost of long-term damage to both profits and reputation. "Now let's take a moment to pray to our shareholders."
I just tested out Sigil and frankly I was amazed. It looks incredible. So much of it is ready to use, it just needs more content. I hope it's not really dead. It has incredible potential.
Its not dead, news are usually on the official Sigil discord. There is also a Sigil Architects Discord where a lot of fan made maps can be seen and you can import those. Along with helpul advice for building maps.
Welp...
:(
Sad to see it go. At least people have a year to get some use out of the fantastic maps they made.
I heard the bad news too.
You know, despite what was said to be going against it, I was still hoping it would become the program it set out to be.
I liked the idea of an official digital version of the tabletop game using 3D models, especially if it meant you could make your own Baldur's Gate style campaigns across the web. Sadly it was cut short before it could be anywhere on par with Talespire, RPG Stories or other VTT programs, which really sucks in my opinion because the graphics in Sigil were amazing, and I wanted an official DnD VTT that allowed players to visualize their experiences to their fullest potential without making the Tabletop experience too expensive.
While they've given up on Sigil, I just hope they use this as a learning experience to make something even better.
For now, I think we should stick with other VTTs.