“D&D released the first significant update the 5th Edition since 2014 and closed out the year strong with both the new Players Handbook and Dungeon Master’s Guide breaking records for the best-selling D&D books ever.”
The idea that they did not highlight this information in their Q4 2024 reporting to investors is a simply wrong - it is there in the plain text of their financial reporting information which, by law, is required to be truthful.
"D&D released the first significant update to 5th Edition since 2014 and closed out the year strong with both the new Players Handbook and Dungeon Master’s Guide breaking records for the best-selling D&D books ever."
"D&D is also set up to continue its recent momentum. This week we released the widely anticipated 2025 Monster Manual with strong initial orders. We’ll continue to build the D&D community leveraging D&D Beyond as a marketplace, with many third-party publishing releases set for the first half. And the future of D&D’s wider franchise ambitions is strong with all new video games and new entertainment on the horizon, including a new streaming series in development, The Forgotten Realms, from Netflix and executive producer Shawn Levy."
For those having trouble finding the information about D&D in that document or don't want to click the link.
“D&D released the first significant update the 5th Edition since 2014 and closed out the year strong with both the new Players Handbook and Dungeon Master’s Guide breaking records for the best-selling D&D books ever.”
The idea that they did not highlight this information in their Q4 2024 reporting to investors is a simply wrong - it is there in the plain text of their financial reporting information which, by law, is required to be truthful.
They're also independently audited. No Big 4 firm (KPMG in this particular case) is going to put their entire reputation on the line for a small fish like Hasbro that is barely cracking the F500.
Now to be fair, that's not the document I saw, although both are from that same date (20/2/25). The document I have doesn't even talk about D&D specifically.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Anyways, it seems Crawford was telling the truth.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I'm convinced the anonymous quote in the Rascal article is true and Hasbro thought they were paying for a video game similar to BG3 and simply misunderstood what a VTT is which is why it's been quietly dumped. The second they realised they weren't going to be able to sell it for $60 a time to people who don't normally play D&D it became an albatross that was never going to make the money they were hoping for so they cut their losses
Which makes the shuttering of the VTT even more curious.
Not really. The VTT was a money pit that wasn't going to pay for itself. It was a pretty dubious investment from the start, and eventually someone realized it was dubious.
Which makes the shuttering of the VTT even more curious.
Not really. The VTT was a money pit that wasn't going to pay for itself. It was a pretty dubious investment from the start, and eventually someone realized it was dubious.
Also, those being let go are getting severance, bonuses, and other benefits. It isn't as doom and gloom as people want it to be.
As a D&D numbers nerd, those figures speak volumes about what is troubling the company, and anyone who actually follows the company that holds a brand you like, well it’s easy to say certain things, but the bigger picture paints a different story.
If Sigil has become a cost sink fallacy and the new company road map is to support brands that are profitably stable, then the love for the D&D brand is waning and that news is most definitely not good news, IMHO. 2024 rules love is low and it’s noticeable if you know where to look, the fog of war is lifting and the body count has begun.
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" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
Which makes the shuttering of the VTT even more curious.
Not really. The VTT was a money pit that wasn't going to pay for itself. It was a pretty dubious investment from the start, and eventually someone realized it was dubious.
Also, those being let go are getting severance, bonuses, and other benefits. It isn't as doom and gloom as people want it to be.
First, I'm glad those let go weren't summarily just dropped. I hope the severance packages weren't measly (they often are these days).
Still strikes me as odd that WOTC had gone far enough in development to show it to a bunch of D&D YTers last year - later last year - but now it appears, as Tom would say on Parks & Rec, dunzo. Whatever the reasons, given what we DO know it feels like yet more signs of the contradictory and/or poorly-thought-through WOTC and Hasbro have been making for the past 18 months+.
Maps still works pretty well and I think it's a fine tool, so at least that's still in place.
As a D&D numbers nerd, those figures speak volumes about what is troubling the company, and anyone who actually follows the company that holds a brand you like, well it’s easy to say certain things, but the bigger picture paints a different story.
If Sigil has become a cost sink fallacy and the new company road map is to support brands that are profitably stable, then the love for the D&D brand is waning and that news is most definitely not good news, IMHO. 2024 rules love is low and it’s noticeable if you know where to look, the fog of war is lifting and the body count has begun.
This is bad analysis - and bad analysis that clearly belies a failure to read or comprehend the very document you link. D&D is specifically listed as one of the brands that they are confident in and intend to support. This is further supported by documentation and quotes provided on the very same page as your post whereby Hasbro confirms D&D 2024 is selling better than anything else in D&D’s history.
Cutting back on Sigil means they lost faith in Sigil. And there are a whole lot of reasons that might have happened - none of which involve a failing of D&D itself. It does not mean they lost faith in D&D as a whole - if they had, they would not be showcasing D&D and its current successes in their comments to investors.
Your unsubstantiated doomsaying simply does not reflect evidence-supported reality.
Frankly, Sigil was always a bit of a long shot; there’s already enough established VTTs and means of integrating Beyond content into them that it was going to be a fight to break into the market. I was interested to see how this 3D model approach played out, but not terribly invested.
where’s the love for the 2024 rules: it’s gone and it’s WotC and Hasbros fault. It’s not doomsaying, it’s reading the tea-leaves and watching a tornado rip through a beloved community, because the contractor was too lazy to do the work, but still takes credit. Where’s the love in the continuous use of dismissal of reality, and how can it help but not see things are not as they should seem?
When does the reality sink in that as much as some don’t want to admit, executive decisions of “incompetence” has reached an all time high, and where’s the love?
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" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
I’m not sure “reading the tea leaves” is a step up from doomsaying. And considering how well the new core 3 have sold according to all informed reports, somehow I think the “community” isn’t experiencing the same weather you are. If you don’t enjoy ‘24 that’s fine, but I’ve seen a lot of enthusiasm for various new elements introduced like Bastions and Weapon Mastery.
where’s the love for the 2024 rules: it’s gone and it’s WotC and Hasbros fault. It’s not doomsaying, it’s reading the tea-leaves and watching a tornado rip through a beloved community, because the contractor was too lazy to do the work, but still takes credit. Where’s the love in the continuous use of dismissal of reality, and how can it help but not see things are not as they should seem?
When does the reality sink in that as much as some don’t want to admit, executive decisions of “incompetence” has reached an all time high, and where’s the love?
I do not think you are qualified to read the metaphorical tea leaves - you literally linked to a document and claimed it said the exact opposite of what it said. You wish to talk about reality? Then perhaps you should not ignore it, simply because it does not comport to the predictions you wish to make. Let me spell this out pretty simply:
The best measure of a product's popularity - the love of the product - is sales data. Each point of sale is a person who was interested enough in the product to purchase it. Over time, as word of mouth spreads, that translates into a showing of love - even a product that is initially popular because of its brand will drop off substantially and have lower overall sales if word of mouth tells of a bad product (this happens with a number of bad movies, for example - they might have decent first nights, but those sales drop drastically by the second night).
5.24 is the best selling set of books in D&D's history. This is an undeniable fact - it is a statement that was verified by a non-Hasbro audit by a company that would be destroyed if it falsified information. It is a statement that, if wrong, would cost Hasbro legally as the government would take action against them. This statement was also made sufficiently after the books' releases to represent both initial sales and secondary sales based on word of mouth.
So, let us take these two truths (1) that long-term sales reflect a product's popularity and (2) that this is the best selling version of the game and apply basic common sense. The ONLY logical conclusion is that the majority of people love 5.24, want to buy 5.24, and are successfully recommending to others that they buy 5.24, successfully fueling massive sales.
Doomsayers, with whatever agenda they might be pushing, might not like it... but no matter how much they try to claim, anecdotally, that 5.24 is a failure... reality says otherwise. To deny that reality is either to live in a world of fiction, to ignore reality in favor of an agenda, and/or an acknowledgment that one cannot critically analyze well-established facts.
When does the reality sink in that as much as some don’t want to admit, executive decisions of “incompetence” has reached an all time high, and where’s the love?
You clearly don't have much memory of history. On the scale of incompetence with managing the D&D brand, well, it's probably one of the more expensive mistakes, but in terms of actual community impact it's kind of a nothingburger. The all time highs for incompetence would either be late AD&D or early 4e.
Project Sigil sure does ring a 4e bell, and AD&D suffered from corporate “incompetence”, what’s the saying: “Those who fail to learn the lessons of history, are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past.” Hasbro and WotC are repeating history, you sure they learned? . Love for a system only looks good when someone is blind, and reading the tea-leaves requires a bit of opening one’s eyes to what might be unpleasant.Again, where is the love?
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" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
Love for a system only looks good when someone is blind, and reading the tea-leaves requires a bit of opening one’s eyes to what might be unpleasant.
I don't love WotC; my opinion of their management is "boringly mediocre". Project Sigil flopping is well within the range of expected results.
On the issue of "5.24 is the best selling set of books in D&D's history"... I don't actually put a lot of weight on that, because expected sales for a game with the popularity of D&D in 2024 are simply larger than they were in 2014, so the 2024 books could easily have underperformed and still sold better than 2014. However, I really don't know how well they performed, because we didn't get sufficiently accurate metrics from Wizards, and the third parties I've seen analyzing demonstrated total incompetence at market research so I just ignore their statements.
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“D&D released the first significant update the 5th Edition since 2014 and closed out the year strong with both the new Players Handbook and Dungeon Master’s Guide breaking records for the best-selling D&D books ever.”
-Hasbro’s Fourth Quarter Financial Results Conference Call Management Remarks
The idea that they did not highlight this information in their Q4 2024 reporting to investors is a simply wrong - it is there in the plain text of their financial reporting information which, by law, is required to be truthful.
For those having trouble finding the information about D&D in that document or don't want to click the link.
Mother and Cat Herder. Playing TTRPGs since 1989 (She/Her)
They're also independently audited. No Big 4 firm (KPMG in this particular case) is going to put their entire reputation on the line for a small fish like Hasbro that is barely cracking the F500.
Now to be fair, that's not the document I saw, although both are from that same date (20/2/25). The document I have doesn't even talk about D&D specifically.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Anyways, it seems Crawford was telling the truth.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Which makes the shuttering of the VTT even more curious.
I'm convinced the anonymous quote in the Rascal article is true and Hasbro thought they were paying for a video game similar to BG3 and simply misunderstood what a VTT is which is why it's been quietly dumped. The second they realised they weren't going to be able to sell it for $60 a time to people who don't normally play D&D it became an albatross that was never going to make the money they were hoping for so they cut their losses
Not really. The VTT was a money pit that wasn't going to pay for itself. It was a pretty dubious investment from the start, and eventually someone realized it was dubious.
Also, those being let go are getting severance, bonuses, and other benefits. It isn't as doom and gloom as people want it to be.
"Shuttering?" It's on my hard drive just fine, when was it shuttered?
I read this after reading the Quarterly Transcripts of the Conference Call: Hasbro Q4-2024 Public Quarterly Disclosure.
As a D&D numbers nerd, those figures speak volumes about what is troubling the company, and anyone who actually follows the company that holds a brand you like, well it’s easy to say certain things, but the bigger picture paints a different story.
If Sigil has become a cost sink fallacy and the new company road map is to support brands that are profitably stable, then the love for the D&D brand is waning and that news is most definitely not good news, IMHO.
2024 rules love is low and it’s noticeable if you know where to look, the fog of war is lifting and the body count has begun.
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
WOTC's VTT, Project Sigil.
First, I'm glad those let go weren't summarily just dropped. I hope the severance packages weren't measly (they often are these days).
Still strikes me as odd that WOTC had gone far enough in development to show it to a bunch of D&D YTers last year - later last year - but now it appears, as Tom would say on Parks & Rec, dunzo. Whatever the reasons, given what we DO know it feels like yet more signs of the contradictory and/or poorly-thought-through WOTC and Hasbro have been making for the past 18 months+.
Maps still works pretty well and I think it's a fine tool, so at least that's still in place.
This is bad analysis - and bad analysis that clearly belies a failure to read or comprehend the very document you link. D&D is specifically listed as one of the brands that they are confident in and intend to support. This is further supported by documentation and quotes provided on the very same page as your post whereby Hasbro confirms D&D 2024 is selling better than anything else in D&D’s history.
Cutting back on Sigil means they lost faith in Sigil. And there are a whole lot of reasons that might have happened - none of which involve a failing of D&D itself. It does not mean they lost faith in D&D as a whole - if they had, they would not be showcasing D&D and its current successes in their comments to investors.
Your unsubstantiated doomsaying simply does not reflect evidence-supported reality.
Frankly, Sigil was always a bit of a long shot; there’s already enough established VTTs and means of integrating Beyond content into them that it was going to be a fight to break into the market. I was interested to see how this 3D model approach played out, but not terribly invested.
where’s the love for the 2024 rules: it’s gone and it’s WotC and Hasbros fault.
It’s not doomsaying, it’s reading the tea-leaves and watching a tornado rip through a beloved community, because the contractor was too lazy to do the work, but still takes credit.
Where’s the love in the continuous use of dismissal of reality, and how can it help but not see things are not as they should seem?
When does the reality sink in that as much as some don’t want to admit, executive decisions of “incompetence” has reached an all time high, and where’s the love?
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
I’m not sure “reading the tea leaves” is a step up from doomsaying. And considering how well the new core 3 have sold according to all informed reports, somehow I think the “community” isn’t experiencing the same weather you are. If you don’t enjoy ‘24 that’s fine, but I’ve seen a lot of enthusiasm for various new elements introduced like Bastions and Weapon Mastery.
I do not think you are qualified to read the metaphorical tea leaves - you literally linked to a document and claimed it said the exact opposite of what it said. You wish to talk about reality? Then perhaps you should not ignore it, simply because it does not comport to the predictions you wish to make. Let me spell this out pretty simply:
The best measure of a product's popularity - the love of the product - is sales data. Each point of sale is a person who was interested enough in the product to purchase it. Over time, as word of mouth spreads, that translates into a showing of love - even a product that is initially popular because of its brand will drop off substantially and have lower overall sales if word of mouth tells of a bad product (this happens with a number of bad movies, for example - they might have decent first nights, but those sales drop drastically by the second night).
5.24 is the best selling set of books in D&D's history. This is an undeniable fact - it is a statement that was verified by a non-Hasbro audit by a company that would be destroyed if it falsified information. It is a statement that, if wrong, would cost Hasbro legally as the government would take action against them. This statement was also made sufficiently after the books' releases to represent both initial sales and secondary sales based on word of mouth.
So, let us take these two truths (1) that long-term sales reflect a product's popularity and (2) that this is the best selling version of the game and apply basic common sense. The ONLY logical conclusion is that the majority of people love 5.24, want to buy 5.24, and are successfully recommending to others that they buy 5.24, successfully fueling massive sales.
Doomsayers, with whatever agenda they might be pushing, might not like it... but no matter how much they try to claim, anecdotally, that 5.24 is a failure... reality says otherwise. To deny that reality is either to live in a world of fiction, to ignore reality in favor of an agenda, and/or an acknowledgment that one cannot critically analyze well-established facts.
You clearly don't have much memory of history. On the scale of incompetence with managing the D&D brand, well, it's probably one of the more expensive mistakes, but in terms of actual community impact it's kind of a nothingburger. The all time highs for incompetence would either be late AD&D or early 4e.
Project Sigil sure does ring a 4e bell, and AD&D suffered from corporate “incompetence”, what’s the saying: “Those who fail to learn the lessons of history, are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past.” Hasbro and WotC are repeating history, you sure they learned?
. Love for a system only looks good when someone is blind, and reading the tea-leaves requires a bit of opening one’s eyes to what might be unpleasant.Again, where is the love?
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
I don't love WotC; my opinion of their management is "boringly mediocre". Project Sigil flopping is well within the range of expected results.
On the issue of "5.24 is the best selling set of books in D&D's history"... I don't actually put a lot of weight on that, because expected sales for a game with the popularity of D&D in 2024 are simply larger than they were in 2014, so the 2024 books could easily have underperformed and still sold better than 2014. However, I really don't know how well they performed, because we didn't get sufficiently accurate metrics from Wizards, and the third parties I've seen analyzing demonstrated total incompetence at market research so I just ignore their statements.