Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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Ok so... some people like dnddeepdive are raving on this feat making two weapon fighting viable in 2024. And its all because of the use of nick. But I don't understand why.
So you have a scimitar and a dagger with nick. you do one attack action. then because of nick I save my bonus action and do a second attack. Now without the feat under the two weapon fighting ... i can still use my bonus action to make another attack. I don't need dual wielder 2024 feat.
As far as I see. The only benefit is doing a d8 instead of d6 damage. average one damage increase and the possibility of using a different mastery not available to light weapons. The ability to add a minuscule amount of damage and be slightly more flexible with mastery's seems like very underwhelming feat except for maybe a hyper specific build.
Am I missing something? Please help me out. I don't understand the benefit of this feat at all.
This is not correct. In this circumstance, without Dual Wielder, you do not have anything that gives you a bonus action attack ability. The bonus action attack from the Light property is explicitly limited to once per turn, so if you've already used it as part of the Attack action (via Nick) then you can't use it again as a bonus action on the same turn.
Dual Wielder gives you a different way to make an attack as a bonus action, so you can use it in the same turn as the Light/Nick one.
pronouns: he/she/they
Oh. So you can't actually use the freed bonus action for another attack. OK got it! Then the feat giving you another option for an attack with the bonus action is why it is useful. Ok i understand now. Thank you!
Right. In fairness, this stuff is not worded in a particularly easy-to-understand way and it's probably the most complicated and confusing thing they added in the 2024 updates.
pronouns: he/she/they
It's under the description of Nick:
The parts to note are "instead" and "only once per turn".
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
The key bit to understand is that "this extra attack" is not talking about Nick, but about the extra attack of the Light property. Nick doesn't grant an extra attack, but if one is reading casually, it's easy to think it does.
As noted above: this stuff is way more confusing than it had to be.
You are correct that neither produces much damage since you are missing out on adding your positive modifiers (but magical pluses helps). But you don't get Nick, unless you have Weapon Master either as a Feat or from a martial/Rogue class. The difference there is Nick allows you keep your Bonus Attack, which is good for Monks and Dual Wielding allows you stow or draw both weapons at the same time.
Now in order to get your positive damage modifiers, you would need to select a martial class that offers the Fighting Style and choose Two Weapon Fighting.
The light weapon property isn’t actually limited to once per turn. The Nick mastery is limited but there’s nothing preventing you from activating the light weapon property multiple times on a turn.
The Nick mastery explicitly says "you can make this extra attack only once per turn" in reference to the extra attack from the Light property.
pronouns: he/she/they
”Light
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative. For example, you can attack with a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other using the Attack action and a Bonus Action, but you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the Bonus Action unless that modifier is negative.”
The use of the Light property is tied to the Attack action, of which you have one use per turn, and grants you one additional attack, made as Bonus Action.
So, having Extra Attack still gives you only one bonus attack through the Light property.
Attacks made that are not part of the Attack action (e.g. Opportunity Attacks or attacks made using the Magic Action, such as True Strike) do not prompt additional Light weapon attacks.
Potentially, features which give you an additional Action, such as Action Surge, might allow a bonus Light Weapon attack for each use of the Attack Action. That would normally be restricted by only having one Bonus Action per turn, but Nick frees that Bonus Action up. (There may be alternative interpretations to that, though. The ambiguity, to me, would be whether the wording restricts the additional Light attack to one use per Attack action or one use per turn.)
Hope this is helpful.
So how do Thri-Kreen enter into this? They can hold 4 daggers/shortswords
EDIT:Doesn't mean jack unless you're running a fighter
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
Thrikeen can only get two weapon fighting, they get no benefit from holding 4 daggers.
Thrikeen players CAN use a shield while using two hands to attack. Specifically you use your main right hand and small hand to hold light weapons, while your main left hand holds a shield. And/or they have a hand free for spell casting, or holding a ranged weapon, etc.
Spolier below is not related to your question, but is my personal rant on D&D doing 2 weapon fighting badly.
I absolutely hate the way D&D does 2 weapon fighting. It is the stupid, childish extra weapon in hand = extra attack. Ever see a professional gun slinger show off by using two weapons? They do NOT get more attacks. Why?
Because attacks take ATTENTION, not arms.
The gun fighter constantly switches attention from left to right, shooting the same number of bullets in the same time as someone with one weapon. The only real benefit is you have twice as many shots before you have to reload.
The same applies to melee weapons. The reason someone wants two melee weapons is not to increase the number of attacks (or parries). No, it is so that when they see an opportunity to attack they have TWO different angles: you could attack from the left or the right. Your opponent has to guard both against your main hand and also against your off hand.
It makes it harder to defend against you, (i.e. gives you a bonus to hit / advantage on the attack.). It does not increase the number of attacks you get.
In regards to your rant: Realism really doesn't work as an argument when there's a animate skeleton not instantly collapsing w/o proper support attacking to your left, and a bearded old man dropping giant fireballs on animate corpses to your right using a carved stick and either gestures or pouch guano.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
Regardless of the rant, they are right. Thrikeen don't get any extra attacks just from having more arms RAW.
I was moreso referring to the rant as depending on any kind of semblance of realism in a game where Wizards & Skeletons don't follow realism, not that I was saying unreality should grant Thri-Kreen 4 attacks or anything
I checked Thri-Kreen since that post, but forgot to update my initial response
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
Verisimilitude is a thing, and still important even in fiction.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
That is why I put it in a spoiler.
We're talking about whether a sentient humanoid insect with four arms has the mental capacity to effectively swing 4 scimitar at once.
I think we can safely put "realism" on the shelf as a term.
Rosie the riveter explains all the bits and bobs needed to absolutely min/max these festures, including how to do it all single-handed so you can have a shield in one hand
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/rules-game-mechanics/241063-rosie-the-riveter
“Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.” — Voltaire
As for "realism", there is a thing called "suspension of disbelief"; where the boundary is located is different for everyone. In "the princess bride" the thing that threw the grandson out of the story initially was the kissing. The other thing that threw him out was realizing that no one was going to kill prince humperdink.
In fifth element, one of my favorite movies of all times, the moment that completely destroys me every time i see it is when Bruce Willis pulls four stones from the Diva's abdomen, each stone a foot long. Amd every time it happens i have to ask the tv, does she have a pocket dimension in there to store all that weight??? Where are her kidneys???
“Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.” — Voltaire