Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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As someone who is running 2 game for martials and casters of all types i can tell you there is a divide. Anything a martial can do a caster can do better its not white room bs its actual playtime put in my a large majority of the community who know what they are talking about. Casters at higher levels are mini gods were as higher level martials are just some war vet with no real power
A lot of proposed solutions to the divide have a habit of sounding like "turn [thing] permanently on but it's totally not magic so it can't be dispelled or countered...also it bypasses resistances, but totally isn't a magical way of doing that", like *insert other game here*.
That's why Pugilist comes off as scary to some. It has [thing] turned on more often, so it's outta line with other martials who do not have [things] turned on constantly &/or consistently enough.
It's a problem w/Vancian Magic in general. Magic users have magic "on" more often than martials have [thing] in the same story.
However:The more you turn on, the more access to [things] to always have on is demanded.
& it turns into even more design cycles of "WotC/DM may I".
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
Because nobody asked, the picture of the orc flexing one arm with the other half-bent is 100% based off of Denis Cyplenkov. There is a picture of Denis in the exact pose, and you can see the exact same veins and striations in the same spots. Kinda cool to see they based an orc on Denis, a retired Russian armwrestler.
I am having trouble choosing between the Sweet Science and the Squared Circle subclasses. So wanted to ask this community’s opinion on what they think? What are the pros and cons of both subclasses?
Do you have anyways of powering down this class?
It doesnt need to be powered down the other martial classes need to be powered up a pugilist is still nothing in terms of power to a caster
I'm a fan of the Squared Circle. Here is why:
Sweet Science can't compete with that. The extra 5% chance to critical is nice. Combo Maker is good, it's nice to give your team mates Advantage, but Stop and Drop is way better because it also gives your friends Advantage (due to Prone condition) and removes lots of actions from your opponents because they're trying to break the Grapple. Knock Out is pretty nice... it competes with Clean Finish but unlike Clean Finish the Coldcock requires a save.
That's my take.
Wait, what?
This is the same class people have been arguing isn’t broken?
I mean, that ability, at a higher level and sufficiently constrained, isn't necessarily broken. If it's just good for wiping out the mooks, it's probably fine. But more detail is required.
I am leaning toward squared circle too! It’s pretty great. However Clean Finish does require a saving throw to convert a creature grappled to incapacitated before you can finish them off post being bloodied.
The other issue I worry about is - there are a lot of monsters (those with higher CR) that are immune to the prone condition. So even though they can be grappled they cannot be made prone. Whereas the Sweet Science’s Combo Maker ensures you have a higher chance to consistently hit a creature. Square Circle requires you to make a creature prone before you get advantage. Also higher CR creatures maybe harder to grapple thereby limiting a lot of the Squared Circle’s abilities. However, a Sweet Science Pugilist is not so affected.
What do you guys think?
Clean Finish isn't quite as OP as portrayed. To do it, you need to:
1. Grapple them (so, win the check).
2. Get to the end of their Turn, so most likely succeed at a second check.
3. Have them fail a Con Save, so they get Incapacitated.
4. Keep on Grappling them until the end of their next turn.
5. Have them fail a second Con Save while Bloodied.
Then they die. And once you do this, you can't use this feature (which is to say, Grapple someone and render them Incapacitated as per step 3) again until a Long Rest.
So it means having three but most likely four d20 tests go in your favour, they have to be Bloodied and you'll probably sink at least two Actions and two Reactions to do it, as a L17 feature, so a lot of enemies will have Legendary Resistances. I'm not saying it's weak, but it's a long way off of no Save and just "telling them to die".
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Precisely correct.
Additionally, for Compression Lock to work, you would need at least two saving throws to go in your favour. First to grapple the creature, the second to keep the creature grappled on their turn if they choose to try to escape (using moxie to impose disadvantage). Squared Circle is great, but on creatures you know you can beat.
Also if you’re trying to make an MMA fighter build Sweet Science can grapple as well, using the Heavy Hitter feature.
Of all the subclasses, which one do you guys think is the most compelling?
Yeah, ok. It's worse than 2014 Quivering Palm, so probably not a problem. Even if you can keep trying until they blow saves, it's too slow to be that good.
But keep in mind you have Inescapable. Those saves aren't guaranteed... the important ones will be at a Disadvantage.
I did forget about the Con save for Clean Finish. Sorry for the confusion.
Im starting to notice the longer this goes on the more people see its not as strong as they thought. Its a good martial prob the best imo besides rogue (bc skills n stuff) just shows wleven with all this martials still arent on par with casters tho this class is good step in the right direction.