Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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I’m surprised there hasn’t been an official thread added yet for this but we’ve got a new Unearthed Arcana dropped. Theres four new subclasses, Pestilence Domain Cleric, Circle of the Titan Druid, Hell Knight Fighter, and Demonic Domain Sorcerer, and a handful of feats that seem designed to emulate a slow trans formation into either a Death Knight or a Lich.
With two of the new creative team, James Haeck and Shawn Merwin, coming from Ghostfire Gaming I’m not at all surprised that this first round of UA from the new creative team feels very Grim Hollow in terms of theme but what does everyone else think? Anyone better at analysing mechanics than me got any opinions?
I'm probaly not better at analysing. But I think some of the Hell knights feature are lacking. I was going to make a post about it.
And why when I try to mark something to copy-paste it marks so much more, than what I want to/what gets copied?
Some of the stuff seems interesting, others seems mid or bad.
Level 7: Advanced weapons
Purulence of Minauros. Caustic pus erupts from the wound. Each creature in a 5-foot Emanation originating from the target takes Acid damage equal to your Constitution modifier, and the target has the Poisoned condition until the start of its next turn
- Wouldn't this also hit your own character, and potentialy your allies, unless you use range or a weapon with reach? Of course you could just use the other options
LEVEL 10: HELLFIRE SURGE When you use your Action Surge while wearing armor or wielding a Shield, you can superheat your equipment, causing it to erupt with hellfire in a 10- foot Emanation originating from you. Each creature of your choice in the Emanation must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw (DC equals 8 plus your Constitution modifier and Proficiency Bonus). On a failed save, a target takes Fire damage equal to one roll of your Infernal Wound Die and is burning. On a successful save, a target takes half as much damage only.
- 10 foot range. How many are actualy going to get hit? Plus the DC isn't your main stat. Though as a fighter, you could probaly get it to a decent number with their extra feats. But the save is Dex. Doesn't mob often have a decent Dex save? Then there is the damage. A D6 and the are burning. But there isn't a condition for burning. Of course they could mean the burning from Infernal Wound. But it doesn't say that. This seems weak. Even though it's a free thing, when you use 'Action Surge'. But you also have a limited number of those uses. One could compare it to Ember of the Fire Giant, which is better. But does require you have a specific feat, before you can pick it. And you need to pick a feat to be able to pick it
LEVEL 15: BLISTER OF AVERNUS
Your hellfire leaves painful, boiling blisters. When you roll a 6 on your Infernal Wound Die, you can roll another d6 and add it to the damage. The maximum number of d6s you can add to the Infernal Wound’s damage on a turn is three.
- This seems weak for a level 15 feature. Especialy as you can only trigger 'Infernal Wound' once pr. turn. So there is a 1/6 chance of this triggering. Maybe it's just me.
LEVEL 18: HELLFIRE CONDEMNATION
Whenever damage from your Hellfire Weapon or Infernal Wound reduces a creature to 0 Hit Points, the creature dies, and its soul rises from the River Styx as a Lemure in a layer of the Nine Hells of your choice in 1d4 hours. If the creature isn’t revived before then, only a Wish spell can return the creature to life.
- What is the point of this feature? So the NPC can't come back to life. How often does that happen in a campaign?
LEVEL 18: INFERNAL BARGAIN
When you roll your Infernal Wound Die, you can treat a roll of 1 as a 6.
- I guess it's a boost to the level 15 feature. But this is a level 18 feature. Again, it doesn't seem good
Okay, I like Feat paths as a design idea.
But I don't see how the content of this UA will ever appeal to a majority of tables? This is essentially gaming material for evil PCs (expect maybe the Titan Druid). Back in the day, when the Book of Vile Darkness was published, NPCs were built the same way as PCs. So the content of the book made sense for the DM. Today, this is clearly player-facing. I am already meeting a lot of DMs saying: no way the Scion of Three rogue makes it to their table. I don't see Hell Knight, Demon Sorcerer or Pestilence domain making the way into actual play on a lot of tables. This feels very niche.
It doesn’t necessarily need to appeal to a majority of tables, just a large enough minority.
Personally, I don’t think I’d be likely to use much of it, as we tend to play good-aligned heroic parties. However, I could potentially see a more comedic, Suicide Squad-like campaign, with a bunch of villains saving the world for thoroughly disreputable reasons.
I do like the concept of the paths as well, and they could be extended to all sorts of other archetypes: the vampire has been mentioned a few times, but hags, other arch-fey, aberrations (perhaps in some Chthulu-esque campaign) and even celestials could also work.
The Hell Knight Fighter looks like a toned-down version of the Illrigger without all the cool options.
Playing an evil character in a good world is a lot of fun.
How is Con, not a Fighter main stat? It's going to be mostly the second highest stat, behind Str or Dex, on the fighter ? There a lot of spells that use Dex saves. Are you saying all those spells are bad as well? As for damage, at level 10 would agree it's a bit weak on its own sure, but it pops off after you Action Surge. So if take the damage done by first two attacks, including the use of Inferno Wounds and Advanced Wounds, then Action Surge, HellFire Surge pops, then two more attacks, you'll be burning enemies down real fast.
There's some cool ideas in here.
I'm still digesting the subclasses, but on the feat paths - the Death Knight one is pretty good. It basically wants you to be a Paladin, Fighter, or a Cha-based gish (Valor Bard, Bladelock, Swords Bard etc) but I'm fine with that, those are the folks I'd expect to go Death Knight anyway.
The Lich path however is built around Soul Siphon, which appears to want you at or close to the front lines, and that doesn't really fit with my idea of a lich. I think it can be made to work - Liches are fairly sturdy - but the feats themselves don't give you a whole lot that make standing that close to melee a good idea. They need to either increase the range on soul siphon massively or make you a lot tougher.
I am okay with the concept assuming you are doing a villain campaign, generally think its a bad idea to throw a villain in with the rest of the party. On the feat paths, I think its in a weird spot in that being undead is not really defined. Other than x spells effect you now, y spells don't. It then gives you resistances and no need top eat, sleep, breathe effectively but sort of back ended. Its not that you don't need to, but you don't gain exhaustion levels from lack of them.
But do you age, do you look different, can you taste things as a lich/death knight, you don't gain exhaustion levels but are you still hungry, thirsty etc. Even if they want to leave some of that up to the DM/player/campaign try to be a bit more explicit that despite being a lich you don't have to be a walking skeleton. As we know what death knights and liches are. Sure these are toned down for players versions, but if you can still look exactly like you did, you still enjoy life just like you did but just have a creature tag, undead. That is going to feel different than what we know them to be.
lich mentioned it brings you back in 1d10 days unless revived before then, okay if someone casts true resurrection do you come back as an undead or alive thereby losing the benefits of the feats.
Are they mutually exclusive. Can a eldritch knight fighter take DKI at 4, LI at 6, deathly presence 8, DK ascension 12, undead grasp at 14 then lich ascension at 16. I have no idea why anyone would, but can you be a lich death knight.
Also I don't think going to full immune for necrotic, poison would break the game at level 12+ resistance feels a bit lacking.
I may be reading it wrong but I think the 10 ft range is only when someone else kills the target, if you do their is no range limitation.
Yeah, as written, you just need to reduce a Humanoid to 0HP. The range limitation is for if someone else reduces them to 0HP.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I guess I didn't word myself well enough. Main would probaly be str or dex. Then con. So not a main stat. I did also say they could get it at a decent level. I should have added, that you could potentialy max it out.
The difference with the spells, is that you use your main stat for those, so there is a chance your DC is going to be higher. And when people rank abilites, spell etc with a DC. The save of it matters
I also missed that you need to roll a 6, for the Advanced wounds to trigger
We already see the feat path in Dragonlance module, no?
They had an origin feat>level 4 feat, and the two recent Forgotten Realm books had similar for each of the major factions, but this is the first one that’s used a level 4 feat, multiple choice level 8 feats, and a level 12 feat so same basic concept but much further reaching
I think they did a decent job making it so you're not locked into playing an evil character with these subclasses. The Hell Knight could just as easily be a Ghost Rider type bounty hunter trying to rid the world of evil by sending the wicked to hell where they belong, and the demonic sorcerer doesn't necessarily get a say in where their power comes from. Even with pestilence you could say something about disease playing a roll in maintaining the balance of life and death.
They're all good options for evil characters, but they're not exclusively evil.
Hell Knight seems a bit underpowered at first glance, and also does that 5e24 subclass thing I find pretty meh, where it really only has One Neat Trick
Circle of the
KaijuTitan druid seems like it has some interesting possibilities. Of the four, that's the one I'm most likely to try outPestilence cleric and Demonic sorcerer seem very niche and only for campaigns with a lot of body horror elements. Unlike the other two, they'd be a lot heavier lift to drop into a "normal" campaign
Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid)
PIPA - Planar Interception/Protection Aeormaton, warforged bodyguard and ex-wizard hunter (Warrior of the Elements monk/Cartographer artificer)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
You know what, I like the direction this is going. I'm not personally a fan of evil PCs, but who am I. It's fresh and the mechanics are thoughtful. I can't say that it's polished, but UA never are.
The titan druid is just such a cool idea. I'm also pretty happy to see that the sorcerer subclass isn't as boring as some demon-themed archetypes end up, and the druid pestilence mechanic has promise, although the archetype isn't as cohesive as I'd like.
My feelings are Mixed.
The Subclasses have some good themes. Regardless of headline "Villainous" which is a red flag I would not allow at my table as DM.
Pestilence cleric . OK spell list, reminds me of Spore Druid in some ways. I like that it has a Warhammer Nurgle vibe, and if I wanted to set a D&D campaign in one of the WH fantasy settings this would be a perfect cleric. The bad, really hard to play Heroic Fantasy as a infectious vector.
Titan Druid. Ok this is the best offering IMO, it's doing something new, can fit with Heroic Fantasy, has an OK spell list but it's Wild Shape and abilities tied to Wild Shape are great. Only thing it needs is a Tanking Spell. This subclass with compel duel would sit very high in a Best Tank list. Esp with the Insectoid shape. The HP boost is mathmatically perfect for making them equal to Fighters and Paladins, their ability to dominate a battlefield with size and reach, are all great for tanking, all they need is a way to keep the enemies focused on them and they would be a perfect tank Subclass, only Barbarians (and Fey lock Multiclass) would be better.
Hell Knight this has a ton of flavor, in some ways this sublass fits the gish dream without being a spell casting subclass. As every weapon strike can become an autosmite without having a smite spell. Honestly if it ships as it is currently written, I can see this being a fan favorite. Also a Hell infused fighter you can still play a hero, aka Ghost Rider from Marvel is basically this subclass.
Demonic Sorcery aka AD&D Tiefling the Subclass. Ok I jest, the theme of this one is tone death to the lore of D&D in some ways as basically this subclass is what the tiefling species was until 4th Edition. As for everything else, it's good. I do like that it has a Whip mechanic, and just because of this I feel the subclass needs to be published ASAP. Spell list is good, although I would add a couple of Warlock Spells to it. Also the Summons comes way late, this ability if it has it at all should be in the first 10 levels, obiviously the Summons would be needed to be balanced to scale with level, but the idea of this subclass is basically a Warlock as a full caster.
Paths of Villainy aka Someone watches Pointy Hat.
Yes, there is no shortage of the amounts of yes. As a DM I would limit these, but the concept of a feat path to become a classic Prestige/epic class. I wouldn't stop at Death Knight or Lich, I would add all the classics from past editions. aka Defilers and Preservers. I do think that someone needs to math checck these progressions to make sure they don't break the game, but generally I like them.
Overall I agree with what you comments on Hell Knight, they need to redo the vocabularly and maybe boost the damage on a few things. This feature though is a ribbon, and should be added at level 3 as that is the flavor text for all Hellfire Weapons in D&D. The level 18 ribbon feature should provide a benefit for all the souls you have sent to Avernus alnog side a legit great feature that benefits from that ribbon.
As a No Evil at my table DM, I'll listen to any players concept, as I can see a good player making an interesting anti-hero with even the most evil subclass.
Scion of the Dead three is basically a Baldur's gate (1&2, or Dark Urge) protaganist, Titan druid can be any alignment, Demonic Sorcery is basically a Warlock as a full caster mixed with the flavor text of AD&D tieflings. Hell Knights are Ghost Rider the subclass all it's missing is the motorcycle or horse. pestilence is really the only one I find hard to place in a good campaign, much like Spores Druids. The Paths are instant not at my table for PCs, but I want them to ppublish them ASAP also they need to do more of these, as there are a lot of high flavor archtypes in D&D that are too strong to be subclasses but could be done as a feat path.