Unearthed Arcana: Villainous Options

I’m surprised there hasn’t been an official thread added yet for this but we’ve got a new Unearthed Arcana dropped. Theres four new subclasses, Pestilence Domain Cleric, Circle of the Titan Druid, Hell Knight Fighter, and Demonic Domain Sorcerer, and a handful of feats that seem designed to emulate a slow trans formation into either a Death Knight or a Lich.

With two of the new creative team, James Haeck and Shawn Merwin, coming from Ghostfire Gaming I’m not at all surprised that this first round of UA from the new creative team feels very Grim Hollow in terms of theme but what does everyone else think? Anyone better at analysing mechanics than me got any opinions? 

I'm probaly not better at analysing. But I think some of the Hell knights feature are lacking. I was going to make a post about it. 
And why when I try to mark something to copy-paste it marks so much more, than what I want to/what gets copied?

Some of the stuff seems interesting, others seems mid or bad.

Level 7: Advanced weapons
Purulence of Minauros. Caustic pus erupts from the wound. Each creature in a 5-foot Emanation originating from the target takes Acid damage equal to your Constitution modifier, and the target has the Poisoned condition until the start of its next turn

- Wouldn't this also hit your own character, and potentialy your allies, unless you use range or a weapon with reach? Of course you could just use the other options

LEVEL 10: HELLFIRE SURGE When you use your Action Surge while wearing armor or wielding a Shield, you can superheat your equipment, causing it to erupt with hellfire in a 10- foot Emanation originating from you. Each creature of your choice in the Emanation must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw (DC equals 8 plus your Constitution modifier and Proficiency Bonus). On a failed save, a target takes Fire damage equal to one roll of your Infernal Wound Die and is burning. On a successful save, a target takes half as much damage only.

- 10 foot range. How many are actualy going to get hit? Plus the DC isn't your main stat. Though as a fighter, you could probaly get it to a decent number with their extra feats. But the save is Dex. Doesn't mob often have a decent Dex save? Then there is the damage. A D6 and the are burning. But there isn't a condition for burning. Of course they could mean the burning from Infernal Wound. But it doesn't say that. This seems weak. Even though it's a free thing, when you use 'Action Surge'. But you also have a limited number of those uses. One could compare it to Ember of the Fire Giant, which is better. But does require you have a specific feat, before you can pick it. And you need to pick a feat to be able to pick it

LEVEL 15: BLISTER OF AVERNUS
Your hellfire leaves painful, boiling blisters. When you roll a 6 on your Infernal Wound Die, you can roll another d6 and add it to the damage. The maximum number of d6s you can add to the Infernal Wound’s damage on a turn is three.

- This seems weak for a level 15 feature. Especialy as you can only trigger 'Infernal Wound' once pr. turn. So there is a 1/6 chance of this triggering. Maybe it's just me.

LEVEL 18: HELLFIRE CONDEMNATION
Whenever damage from your Hellfire Weapon or Infernal Wound reduces a creature to 0 Hit Points, the creature dies, and its soul rises from the River Styx as a Lemure in a layer of the Nine Hells of your choice in 1d4 hours. If the creature isn’t revived before then, only a Wish spell can return the creature to life.

- What is the point of this feature? So the NPC can't come back to life. How often does that happen in a campaign?

LEVEL 18: INFERNAL BARGAIN
When you roll your Infernal Wound Die, you can treat a roll of 1 as a 6.

- I guess it's a boost to the level 15 feature. But this  is a level 18 feature. Again, it doesn't seem good

Okay, I like Feat paths as a design idea.

But I don't see how the content of this UA will ever appeal to a majority of tables? This is essentially gaming material for evil PCs (expect maybe the Titan Druid). Back in the day, when the Book of Vile Darkness was published, NPCs were built the same way as PCs. So the content of the book made sense for the DM. Today, this is clearly player-facing. I am already meeting a lot of DMs saying: no way the Scion of Three rogue makes it to their table. I don't see Hell Knight, Demon Sorcerer or Pestilence domain making the way into actual play on a lot of tables. This feels very niche.

It doesn’t necessarily need to appeal to a majority of tables, just a large enough minority. 

Personally, I don’t think I’d be likely to use much of it, as we tend to play good-aligned heroic parties. However, I could potentially see a more comedic, Suicide Squad-like campaign, with a bunch of villains saving the world for thoroughly disreputable reasons. 

I do like the concept of the paths as well, and they could be extended to all sorts of other archetypes: the vampire has been mentioned a few times, but hags, other arch-fey, aberrations (perhaps in some Chthulu-esque campaign) and even celestials could also work. 

The Hell Knight Fighter looks like a toned-down version of the Illrigger without all the cool options.

Playing an evil character in a good world is a lot of fun.

Quote from ibervang >>

 

LEVEL 10: HELLFIRE SURGE When you use your Action Surge while wearing armor or wielding a Shield, you can superheat your equipment, causing it to erupt with hellfire in a 10- foot Emanation originating from you. Each creature of your choice in the Emanation must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw (DC equals 8 plus your Constitution modifier and Proficiency Bonus). On a failed save, a target takes Fire damage equal to one roll of your Infernal Wound Die and is burning. On a successful save, a target takes half as much damage only.

- 10 foot range. How many are actualy going to get hit? Plus the DC isn't your main stat. Though as a fighter, you could probaly get it to a decent number with their extra feats. But the save is Dex. Doesn't mob often have a decent Dex save? Then there is the damage. A D6 and the are burning. But there isn't a condition for burning. Of course they could mean the burning from Infernal Wound. But it doesn't say that. This seems weak. Even though it's a free thing, when you use 'Action Surge'. But you also have a limited number of those uses. One could compare it to Ember of the Fire Giant, which is better. But does require you have a specific feat, before you can pick it. And you need to pick a feat to be able to pick it

 

 How is Con, not a Fighter main stat?  It's going to be mostly the second highest stat, behind Str or Dex, on the fighter ?  There a lot of spells that use Dex saves.  Are you saying all those spells are bad as well?  As for damage, at level 10 would agree it's a bit weak on its own sure, but it pops off after you Action Surge.  So if take the damage done by first two attacks, including the use of Inferno Wounds and Advanced Wounds, then Action Surge, HellFire Surge pops, then two more attacks, you'll be burning enemies down real fast.

There's some cool ideas in here.

I'm still digesting the subclasses, but on the feat paths - the Death Knight one is pretty good.  It basically wants you to be a Paladin, Fighter, or a Cha-based gish (Valor Bard, Bladelock, Swords Bard etc) but I'm fine with that, those are the folks I'd expect to go Death Knight anyway.

The Lich path however is built around Soul Siphon, which appears to want you at or close to the front lines, and that doesn't really fit with my idea of a lich. I think it can be made to work - Liches are fairly sturdy - but the feats themselves don't give you a whole lot that make standing that close to melee a good idea. They need to either increase the range on soul siphon massively or make you a lot tougher.

I am okay with the concept assuming you are doing a villain campaign, generally think its a bad idea to throw a villain in with the rest of the party. On the feat paths, I think its in a weird spot in that being undead is not really defined. Other than x spells effect you now, y spells don't. It then gives you resistances and no need top eat, sleep, breathe effectively but sort of back ended. Its not that you don't need to, but you don't gain exhaustion levels from lack of them. 

But do you age, do you look different, can you taste things as a lich/death knight, you don't gain exhaustion levels but are you still hungry, thirsty etc. Even if they want to leave some of that up to the DM/player/campaign try to be a bit more explicit that despite being a lich you don't have to be a walking skeleton. As we know what death knights and liches are. Sure these are toned down for players versions, but if you can still look exactly like you did, you still enjoy life just like you did but just have a creature tag, undead. That is going to feel different than what we know them to be.

lich mentioned it brings you back in 1d10 days unless revived before then, okay if someone casts true resurrection do you come back as an undead or alive thereby losing the benefits of the feats.

Are they mutually exclusive. Can a eldritch knight fighter take DKI at 4, LI at 6, deathly presence 8, DK ascension 12, undead grasp at 14 then lich ascension at 16. I have no idea why anyone would, but can you be a lich death knight. 

Also I don't think going to full immune for necrotic, poison would break the game at level 12+ resistance feels a bit lacking.

Quote from PsyrenXY >>

There's some cool ideas in here.

I'm still digesting the subclasses, but on the feat paths - the Death Knight one is pretty good.  It basically wants you to be a Paladin, Fighter, or a Cha-based gish (Valor Bard, Bladelock, Swords Bard etc) but I'm fine with that, those are the folks I'd expect to go Death Knight anyway.

The Lich path however is built around Soul Siphon, which appears to want you at or close to the front lines, and that doesn't really fit with my idea of a lich. I think it can be made to work - Liches are fairly sturdy - but the feats themselves don't give you a whole lot that make standing that close to melee a good idea. They need to either increase the range on soul siphon massively or make you a lot tougher.

I may be reading it wrong but I think the 10 ft range is only when someone else kills the target, if you do their is no range limitation.

Soul Siphon. When you reduce a Humanoid enemy to 0 Hit Points, you can consume its soul and gain a boost of arcane energy (no action required). On your next turn, the first creature you hit with an attack takes extra Necrotic damage equal to 1d6 plus your spellcasting ability modifier. You also gain this benefit if someone else reduces a Humanoid enemy within 10 feet of you to 0 Hit Points. A soul consumed in this way can be restored only by a True Resurrection or Wish spell.

Yeah, as written, you just need to reduce a Humanoid to 0HP. The range limitation is for if someone else reduces them to 0HP.

I guess I didn't word myself well enough. Main would probaly be str or dex. Then con. So not a main stat. I did also say they could get it at a decent level. I should have added, that you could potentialy max it out.
The difference with the spells, is that you use your main stat for those, so there is a chance your DC is going to be higher. And when people rank abilites, spell etc with a DC. The save of it matters

I also missed that you need to roll a 6, for the Advanced wounds to trigger

We already see the feat path in Dragonlance module, no?

Quote from SaintLothar >>

We already see the feat path in Dragonlance module, no?

 They had an origin feat>level 4 feat, and the two recent Forgotten Realm books had similar for each of the major factions, but this is the first one that’s used a level 4 feat, multiple choice level 8 feats, and a level 12 feat so same basic concept but much further reaching 

Quote from WisdomOfWombats >>

Okay, I like Feat paths as a design idea.

But I don't see how the content of this UA will ever appeal to a majority of tables? This is essentially gaming material for evil PCs (expect maybe the Titan Druid). Back in the day, when the Book of Vile Darkness was published, NPCs were built the same way as PCs. So the content of the book made sense for the DM. Today, this is clearly player-facing. I am already meeting a lot of DMs saying: no way the Scion of Three rogue makes it to their table. I don't see Hell Knight, Demon Sorcerer or Pestilence domain making the way into actual play on a lot of tables. This feels very niche.

 I think they did a decent job making it so you're not locked into playing an evil character with these subclasses. The Hell Knight could just as easily be a Ghost Rider type bounty hunter trying to rid the world of evil by sending the wicked to hell where they belong, and the demonic sorcerer doesn't necessarily get a say in where their power comes from. Even with pestilence you could say something about disease playing a roll in maintaining the balance of life and death. 

They're all good options for evil characters, but they're not exclusively evil. 

Hell Knight seems a bit underpowered at first glance, and also does that 5e24 subclass thing I find pretty meh, where it really only has One Neat Trick

Circle of the Kaiju Titan druid seems like it has some interesting possibilities. Of the four, that's the one I'm most likely to try out

Pestilence cleric and Demonic sorcerer seem very niche and only for campaigns with a lot of body horror elements. Unlike the other two, they'd be a lot heavier lift to drop into a "normal" campaign