Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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As said in the title. Can the Cartographer teleport through walls to a map holder?
No you have to be able to see the space you are teleporting to.
It does say that, though you also have a feature that says that when you're creating any effect that requires being able to see the target, you can target another map holder even if you can't see them. A strict reading of the rules would say this only allows you to target a map holder you can't see, not a space adjacent to a map holder you can't see. But some DMs — including me — might allow it as it seems within the general spirit of what that feature is trying to give you.
pronouns: he/she/they
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/efota/the-artificer#Level3MappingMagic
"On your turn, you can spend an amount of movement equal to half your Speed (round down) to teleport to
(1) an unoccupied space
(2)you can see
(3) (3a) within 10 feet of yourself OR
(3) (3b) (3bi) within 5 feet of a creature that is (3bii) within 30 feet of you AND (3biii) holding one of your Adventurer’s Atlas maps.
You can’t use this benefit if your Speed is 0."
Linguitically, the "and" operator binds more tightly to its operands than the "or" operator. Which means when you see the "and" between 3bi and 3bii, you do the and first, then the result gets "or"ed with whatever is left, which would be 3a.
Its kind of a weirdly specific grammar rule that wotc is relying on people knowing for them to figure out the rules. If OR bound more tightly than AND then the overall result would be that yes, in fact, you could portal jump to a party member within 30 feet of you as long as they have an atlas, whether you see them or not.
Honestly, its kinda crappy writing to rely on people fuguring out operator precedence when the rules could be broken up and grouped together more obviously.
“Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.” — Voltaire
idk, it weird to think the opposite, Why limit me to 10 feet that I can see or any spot within 30 I can't see so long as someone is holding a map
Makes more sense you have to be able to see for both positioning rules.
But I am not a grammar nerd, I just think it makes more sense you need to see no matter what/
I believe so. And if you dash you should be able to teleport up to 4 times.
It's basically misty step with no spell slot and no action cost, and in the case of teleporting to other map holders, ignores sight restrictions so you can go through walls.
Very cool ability.
You have 2 options for where you can port to:
1) an unoccupied space you can see within 10 feet of yourself.
2) an unoccupied space you can see within 5 feet of a creature that is within 30 feet of you and and holding one of your Adventurer’s Atlas maps.
Teleporting to a destination you cannot see doesnt become available until something like Dimension Door.
“Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.” — Voltaire
This is a fundamental issue with English -- one can parse that sentence two different ways, and neither is inherently incorrect:
The language is clearly ambiguous and probably should be clarified. That said, absent clarification, if I were DMing for this subclass, I would utilize the “location you can see within 10 feet” and “space within 5 feet of a map holder” interpretation, where “can see” is only applied to individual teleport. The reason for this is twofold:
First, looking at the other abilities for context, the Positioning ability explicitly allows you to target map holders regardless of sight, provided they are within a spell’s range. This is substantially similar to the teleport, which both focuses on the map holder as an origin space for the ability and has an overall range limitation. Since one ability explicitly does not require line of sight, it is reasonable to interpret ambiguity to maintain consistency.
Second, reading it in such a manner provides a degree of uniqueness to the subclass. There are a number of different subclasses (ex. Fey Pact Warlock) that already do various things with teleporting. This would make the artificer’s teleport unique and unlock additional playstyles and tactics that do not otherwise exist in the game, and I generally see that as a positive.
I interpret it as you can only use teleport once per turn, dash or not.
That said, you can get quite a lot of movement when you need it, 15 + 30 + 5 if everyone is positioned just right, before you dash or use any other feature. And it's even better in difficult terrain.
Unlike Misty Step, you can't use it to exit a grapple or restraint.
I agree with the interpretation that hopping to a map holder doesn't require you to see the spot. The feature of not having to see your map holders to target them for other spells is not only mechanically interesting but also extremely fun for flavor.
Considering that Portal Jump pretty explicitly* says you have to be able to see the space you're portaling to, that's a bridge too far for me as a ruling
* - I don't find the argument that sight is required only for the first part of the feature and not the second to be persuasive. The "within X or within Y" structure very clearly indicates both are subordinate to the preceding conditions, which include being able to see the space. It would need to be phrased like this for the "you can see" not to apply to both
Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid)
PIPA - Planar Interception/Protection Aeormaton, warforged bodyguard and ex-wizard hunter (Warrior of the Elements monk/Cartographer artificer)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Just to be clear, I agree that the Rules As Written say you need to be able to see the space you're teleporting to for either part of the feature. There's no actual linguistic ambiguity or issues with and/or precedence there.
I just think it makes the feature more fun and useful if you allow the separate "you can target map holders without seeing them" feature to apply to this as well as a house rule.
pronouns: he/she/they
Here’s a question, would using an item that lets you scry on someone around the corner or in another room that’s in range be an acceptable workaround?
Yes. "A space you can see" means a space you can see; it doesn't place any restrictions on how you have to be able to see it.
pronouns: he/she/they
English is hard to read, but it still makes more sense to read the ability as needing LOS for both options. Why would you have only 10feet of teleporting when you can see up 30feet of teleporting that you do not need to see?
It would make more sense for that to be flipped if you wanted to have a sight rider on only one of those from an ability stand point.
With the Reading of LOS is only for 10 feet, you would always be better to pick a map holder as the teleportation spot, even if the spot you wanted to jump to is with in 10 feet of you, because you never have that LOS restriction, which would just be weird
I'm not sure on which way I fall on this, but I can see where IF they really wanted the space "you can see" to apply to both it should have been worded "On your turn, you can spend an amount of movement equal to half your Speed (round down) to teleport to an unoccupied space that you can see within 10 feet of yourself or within 5 feet of a creature that is within 30 feet of you and holding one of your Adventurer’s Atlas maps. That way it is a descriptor to the "unoccupied space" instead of potentially modifying one of the two options. English is a funny thing.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but to me that looks like exactly how it is worded.
pronouns: he/she/they
Arguably, the idea could be that the map can perceive the space for you.
Ultimately, it comes down to how the sentence has been constructed. Was it:
"to teleport to an unoccupied space [you can see within 10 feet of yourself] or [within 5 feet of a creature that is within 30 feet of you and holding one of your Adventurer’s Atlas maps]"
Or
"to teleport to an unoccupied space you can see [within 10 feet of yourself] or [within 5 feet of a creature that is within 30 feet of you and holding one of your Adventurer’s Atlas maps]"
Both are well within the realms of possibility of what was intended. Even if there were a "correct" form of English (there isn't really), between the rather peculiar and esoteric use of English with D&D (remember, natural weapons aren't weapons!) and natural human variation, this squarely in the grey area. I've seen far more egregious examples of intent of rules being different to what is written.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
That would be a very poorly constructed sentence. I'm not going to assume WOTC is that bad at their jobs, absent other evidence suggesting that's what they actually meant
So is the possibility that the sentence is actually in code that reveals yet another meaning entirely then
Too many of these discussions become "I can torture this sentence to get the meaning I want out of it, so who's to say who's right and who's wrong?"
English is a goofy language sometimes, but it's not that goofy
Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid)
PIPA - Planar Interception/Protection Aeormaton, warforged bodyguard and ex-wizard hunter (Warrior of the Elements monk/Cartographer artificer)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)