Whetstone and Chalk

Quote from Moxys >>

Yes, but that then allows access to all the Legacy stuff.  

 
Enable. Add chalk. Disable.

Problem solved.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

-

I don't really see the need, if a player wants to add chalk just let them. Custom Item / Other Possessions. Done. A single copper piece is enough to buy you enough chalk to last your entire adventuring career. The only time you would be using it is if you're in some kind of labyrinthian cave structure where the path splits. This isn't going to be every session. It's not like you're writing essays every day in chalk. A mark here or there? Yeah, that stick is gonna last a while. So why bother bloating the table for it?

It just doesn't seem worth it to give it a table entry as something you need to really track. 

And if you find yourself in a cave without chalk and needing to mark your way? Use alternatives. Got a set of tools like stone mason tools, carpenter tools, or painting supplies? They will have tools (or paint) to mark the walls. Also caves can also have gypsum or limestone which work just like chalk easily enough. Had a campfire recently? They'll have easy charcoal then - which can also mark walls and paths. Then there's the "breadcrumb" technique - leave a marble, arrange pebbles, use string. In fact those may be preferable so you don't tell intelligent monsters or pursuers "we went this way" in easily noticeable chalk.

Chalk is of low importance, immensely common and abundant, incredibly cheap and not too difficult to come by for free even. Hell, even in real life it's not needed. If I, as a child, was able to mark my way through forests and caves to avoid getting lost using stones I picked up or a penknife, without needing chalk - I'm fairly certain an adventurer with borderline super-powers can fare just fine, if they didn't think to add it beforehand and the DM is very strict.

Chalk certainly can have uses - but it's not important to have, and in the effort of reducing the tables to save bloat and space a suitable choice to remove. 

Yes there are other ways to accomplish the task, but to remove these items seems silly to me.  It means new players do not see it on the list and therefor do not know to consider having it.  "Bloat on the tables" seems like an excuse to me.  

Quote from Moxys >>

Yes there are other ways to accomplish the task, but to remove these items seems silly to me.  It means new players do not see it on the list and therefor do not know to consider having it.  "Bloat on the tables" seems like an excuse to me.  

 When table bloat costs words and space on a page to print... it is not an excuse it is a decision. Books cost money, printing costs money, they have to decide what is important for a player to read in the book. They decided that things like spoons, mess kits, chalk were common enough that people might just think of it and not need it spelled out.

"It means new players do not see it on the list and therefor do not know to consider having it." - is just as much an excuse as you claim saying table bloat is.

My current table was mostly new players, and they constant ask for things not in the book that I have had to figure out. Do I wish that the publishers made a "Tea Pouch" or "Headshot(As in the picture)" entry? No I roll with my players and give them what they need.

If you're going to complain about table bloat, there are a ton of things in the equipment table that are bloat, because they aren't things PCs will actually buy as equipment. Going through the list for things that are in there that are at least as much a waste of space as chalk:

• Barrel: This is a Storage Container. It is reasonably likely to appear as dungeon dressing and contain valuables, but not be something the PCs will buy empty.
• Basket: This is a Storage Container. It is reasonably likely to appear as dungeon dressing and contain valuables, but not be something the PCs will buy empty.
• Bottle, Glass: This is a Storage Container. It is reasonably likely to appear as dungeon dressing and contain valuables, but not be something the PCs will buy empty.
• Bucket: Occasionally useful, but PCs will generally rely on finding them when needed (a lot of places where a bucket would be useful... already contain a bucket).
• Candle: candles are dungeon dressing. PCs carry torches or lanterns.
• Case, Crossbow Bolt: case weight, like sheath weight, should be included in the weight of what it's meant to contain.
• Chest: This is a Storage Container. It is reasonably likely to appear as dungeon dressing and contain valuables, but not be something the PCs will buy empty.
• Clothes, Fine and Clothes, Traveler's: clothing should just be assumed most of the time, and if listed, is a lifestyle expense.
• Costume: the way you get a costume is you buy or steal clothes appropriate to the costume. Just list it under disguise kit.
• Flask: This is a Storage Container. It is reasonably likely to appear as dungeon dressing and contain valuables, but not be something the PCs will buy empty.
• Ink and Ink Pen: should be listed as part of the Calligrapher's Kit and Cartographer's Kit, not separate.
• Jug: This is a Storage Container. It is reasonably likely to appear as dungeon dressing and contain valuables, but not be something the PCs will buy empty.
• Ladder: Occasionally useful, but PCs will generally rely on finding them when needed, as they are way too inconvenient to lug around all the time.
• Lock: Locks are problems the PCs have to solve when going through a dungeon, not PC equipment.
• Paper and Parchment: these are raw materials for crafting.
• Perfume: should be treated like fine clothes -- it's a lifestyle expense and probably doesn't have a mechanical effect other than announcing your status.
• Pot, Iron: This is a Storage Container. It is reasonably likely to appear as dungeon dressing and contain valuables, but not be something the PCs will buy empty.
• Quiver: quiver weight, like sheath weight, should be included in the weight of what it's meant to contain.
• Robe: see Clothes.
• Sack: This is a Storage Container. It is reasonably likely to appear as dungeon dressing and contain valuables, but not be something the PCs will buy empty.
• Shovel: Occasionally useful, but PCs will generally rely on finding them when needed, as they are way too inconvenient to lug around all the time.
• String: On a par with chalk.
• Vial: This is a Storage Container. It is reasonably likely to appear as dungeon dressing and contain valuables, but not be something the PCs will buy empty.

Quote from Pantagruel666 >>

If you're going to complain about table bloat, there are a ton of things in the equipment table that are bloat, because they aren't things PCs will actually buy as equipment. Going through the list for things that are in there that are at least as much a waste of space as chalk:

• Barrel: This is a Storage Container. It is reasonably likely to appear as dungeon dressing and contain valuables, but not be something the PCs will buy empty.
• Basket: This is a Storage Container. It is reasonably likely to appear as dungeon dressing and contain valuables, but not be something the PCs will buy empty.
• Bottle, Glass: This is a Storage Container. It is reasonably likely to appear as dungeon dressing and contain valuables, but not be something the PCs will buy empty.
• Bucket: Occasionally useful, but PCs will generally rely on finding them when needed (a lot of places where a bucket would be useful... already contain a bucket).
• Candle: candles are dungeon dressing. PCs carry torches or lanterns.
• Case, Crossbow Bolt: case weight, like sheath weight, should be included in the weight of what it's meant to contain.
• Chest: This is a Storage Container. It is reasonably likely to appear as dungeon dressing and contain valuables, but not be something the PCs will buy empty.
• Clothes, Fine and [Tooltip Not Found]: clothing should just be assumed most of the time, and if listed, is a lifestyle expense.
• Costume: the way you get a costume is you buy or steal clothes appropriate to the costume. Just list it under disguise kit.
• Flask: This is a Storage Container. It is reasonably likely to appear as dungeon dressing and contain valuables, but not be something the PCs will buy empty.
• Ink and Ink Pen: should be listed as part of the Calligrapher's Kit and Cartographer's Kit, not separate.
• Jug: This is a Storage Container. It is reasonably likely to appear as dungeon dressing and contain valuables, but not be something the PCs will buy empty.
• Ladder: Occasionally useful, but PCs will generally rely on finding them when needed, as they are way too inconvenient to lug around all the time.
• Lock: Locks are problems the PCs have to solve when going through a dungeon, not PC equipment.
• Paper and Parchment: these are raw materials for crafting.
• Perfume: should be treated like fine clothes -- it's a lifestyle expense and probably doesn't have a mechanical effect other than announcing your status.
• Pot, Iron: This is a Storage Container. It is reasonably likely to appear as dungeon dressing and contain valuables, but not be something the PCs will buy empty.
• Quiver: quiver weight, like sheath weight, should be included in the weight of what it's meant to contain.
• Robe: see Clothes.
• Sack: This is a Storage Container. It is reasonably likely to appear as dungeon dressing and contain valuables, but not be something the PCs will buy empty.
• Shovel: Occasionally useful, but PCs will generally rely on finding them when needed, as they are way too inconvenient to lug around all the time.
• String: On a par with chalk.
• Vial: This is a Storage Container. It is reasonably likely to appear as dungeon dressing and contain valuables, but not be something the PCs will buy empty.

 Ink & Ink Pens aren't just for those kits. Wizards need the Ink Pens, at least.

Also, you might want to post 5.5 item bloat, too.

Quote from MaedraDawnkeeper >>

 Ink & Ink Pens aren't just for those kits. Wizards need the Ink Pens, at least.

Also, you might want to post 5.5 item bloat, too.

 Oh, is it items rather than item? That was from the 5.5 list. And no, wizards don't need ink pens -- just abstract it into the materials required to scribe a page, pens are in fact consumables.

Quote from Pantagruel666 >>

Quote from MaedraDawnkeeper >>

 Ink & Ink Pens aren't just for those kits. Wizards need the Ink Pens, at least.

Also, you might want to post 5.5 item bloat, too.

 Oh, is it items rather than item? That was from the 5.5 list. And no, wizards don't need ink pens -- just abstract it into the materials required to scribe a page, pens are in fact consumables.

 You posted the ones from 5e, not 5.5e

Quote from MaedraDawnkeeper >>

 You posted the ones from 5e, not 5.5e

Just the wrong tooltip markup. Fixed now. 

Quote from Pantagruel666 >>

Quote from MaedraDawnkeeper >>

 You posted the ones from 5e, not 5.5e

Just the wrong tooltip markup. Fixed now. 

 What's supposed to be there where the [Tooltip Not Found] is?

 Traveler's Clothes. Just me typoing.

If you want your players to think and avoid table bloat, then make them come up with justifications as to why they would have something to mark with.
You can even do this with an NPC to show them. 'The mage apprentice you have been escorting marks the tree with an arrow using the ink from his scribe's kit. "Sorry, i never could get the hang of Prestidigitation" he says sheepishly.' This puts the idea of marking the environment with things, and even folks like a rouge with no craftsmen proficiency can get the spark of "I can make marks in the tree with my dagger" or the ranger saying "I find a soft sedimentary rock that I can mark harder surfaces" ( what kids called a 'Chalkrock' in the 90s. They usually weren't chalk) or a million other creative things.

It is one of the things that led to the 'if you can justify why you have x small thing, you can have it, just remember it' which is a more creative take on 'you just have it.'

Some of your players might even be honest and creative enough to enforce their own set rules. One Warlock I DMed for said "I know i said i had Chalk, but I said i have powdered chalk, and you are after a stick of chalk." and it led to a few great moments. You have been given multiple solutions from " Enable Legacy, add those items to the table, then disable Legacy" to "Use Other Possession method" to " make the logically justify why they have it."
Hells smells, you can just make them track it separately themselves on scratch paper. 

Any further arguing seems like an excuse to complain.

50 comments on chalk?

If a player says "i mark the stone with chalk" 

Should a dm check their inventory before allowing it?

Is that where the joy of the game lives?

I guess i dont understand the folks who like to count ammunition either....

When you have time and a place to resupply keeping track of small things seems stupid.

But that one time your out in the wilds ...... stuck down a dungeon....shipwrecked on an island.

Finding wild food is far harder than you might think, rations need to be kept track of. Can you have a real full rest without food? For a week?

Quote from TheGnome5786 >>

When you have time and a place to resupply keeping track of small things seems stupid.

But that one time your out in the wilds ...... stuck down a dungeon....shipwrecked on an island.

Finding wild food is far harder than you might think, rations need to be kept track of. Can you have a real full rest without food? For a week?

Goodberry. Literally solves all your problems.

I just looked and i cant even find rules in the 5.5e/2024 rulebooks for foraging for food. I assume its because a common level 1 spell solves the entire problem.

Turning dnd into a "roll survival checks.until you find food or starve" is a weird game of "balance your imaginary checkbook, with random dice". 

The dm made it an arbitrarily difficult dc, you die. The dm lowers the dc to avoid a tpk, well the it was meaningless in the first place and just skip it entirely.

Quote from SunIsGettingRealLow96589 >>

I just looked and i cant even find rules in the 5.5e/2024 rulebooks for foraging for food. I assume its because a common level 1 spell solves the entire problem.

 https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/dmg-2024/running-the-game#Foraging